Hi , we have a 10 yr old paint stallion who is extemely agressive towards other horses in breeding season. We would like to show him again this year, and have started him on Regu mate to slow his libido down. Unfortunately there is no package info regarding dosage for this purpose and at this point I am giving him the dosage appropriate for a mare his weight. Is this correct, or what would be a normal dosage.
Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 01:58 pm:
The use of Regu-Mate in stallions is "off-label". In other words, such use has not been researched by the producing company, and any possible side-effects (or any effects at all) are not tested or known.
Use of the drug on stallions has been practiced in the field with mixed results. 2 research documents presented at the AAEP convention in 1997 were upon initial inspection somewhat contrary. When evaluated further however, it seems that they indicate that its use is successful in younger stallions, but not as successful (if at all) in older stallions, where much of the behaviour has been learned rather than being as a result of endogenous (internal) hormonal stimulation.
One thing that you should be made very aware of before using this drug in your stallion is that there have been no long-term studies on the use in stallions, but that clinical results suggest that there may be a "chemical castration" effect - which may be permanent. In other words, you could possibly end up with a sterile stallion.
IMHO, I would not use it. Consequently, although others are free to comment and offer their dosages, I am not going to do so in an attempt to discourage your use of it. Please note that I do not mean this unkindly....
thankyou very much for quick response to my question. I should elaborate further on our situation, we are selling this stallion at a sale in @ 2 weekd so we are not looking for a long term behavioral change. He is extremely agressive towards other horses in general, with a bite or strike first, ask questions later kind of attitude. We are jsut a little worried about having him around that many horses, and keeping him under control, and not acting like a T-Rex! He is actually not that bad to handle, and is easy to breed with, he simply does a lot of posturing and screaming, and is pretty ugly to other horses in close quarters.(unless itis a mare in season of course). Do you think that the regumate would have that drastic effect over the course of a few days of being administered? If so we will certainly not use it as he is a very valuable breeding animal and we would never take a chance of rendering him sterile! When we purchased him 4 yrs ago he was quite quiet and docile and became progressively worse as time passed over a few months. He had bred lots of mares prior to us buying and standing him, so its not that he wasnt in use as breeding horse. We always felt that whoever owned him before must have had him on some kind of drugs to get him quieted down, and certainly his fertility was not affected at that time, as he settled all his mares the first year and every year after.
Thaks again for your help WEndy
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:45 am:
I have used it on a few stallions for the purpose of getting them through an important furturity. I suggest that you do not use it more than 30 days, and do not attempt breeding within 60 days.
I agree with Jos, this is not something that should be given just to go show. Too many problems can arise. If there is a lot of money involved with this show and this horse has just started going through some behavioral changes, then maybe I would consider it. There would have to be a large purse at stake and a horse with an even greater chance of winning it all to go to this extreme. Weigh your options and consider chances you are taking, it may not be worth the gamble.
As Jos has said, if this were a young stallion, the two that I had were ( 3 year olds ) you may see a difference. The fact that your horse is 10 would lead me to believe that it is learned behavior and not worth the risks to his breeding potential in the future.
wendy ross (188.8.131.52)
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:50 am:
hi Kelly, thanks for the advice, but my question is still, should we consider giving it to him, which is becoming more unlikely with every thing I am hearing....What would be the dosage? he weighs @ 1300 lbs. Thanks Wendy
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 12:59 am:
In retrospect, forget it , we wont take the chance on using it. Is there anything you can recommend that we could use that would be safe as far as fertility is concerned that may help?
ELizabeth Hardy (184.108.40.206)
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 02:27 pm:
Wendy is he being shown? at all if not a light sedative might do the trick in reducing some of the behavior... but you can not use this if he is showing ....
The other thing that might help and is worth a try is out is putting Vicks in his nose... blocking his smell... if he can not smell the horse he may not be able to identify that it is male right away. It does not always work but is worth a try.
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 04:47 pm:
Get him good and tired and keep him that way right before the show. I have shown and trained many stallions and they do take extra efforts at times!
I would start about 2 weeks before the show. If you start too soon, you just get him in better condition and then he is even harder to get tired. Ride his bottom off and do it often. I mean, get him TIRED. You will want to keep him in good flesh and hydrated, but he needs to be too tired to think about breeding for now.
Do not give him any slack, he will pop right back and you will be in the same position as you are now. It may take a few days of constant riding to get him down, once you have his attention where you want it, you can back off a bit. Every time he acted up, I would head him off to the arena or a long ride. You may get tired first, but this will get his mind on your business, not his. Good luck.
wendy ross (220.127.116.11)
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 09:59 pm:
Thanks for the help, I will try the Vicks and see if it helps. I hate to sedate as he is going to a sale not a show, and quite often will "drop" with sedation. As far as riding his butt off, Im afraid "been there done that" describes us with him. we are talking about a horse who is already super fit and is being ridden daily. I dont think I have ever seen him Tired! And he is worked hard. He is a bit of a hard keeper and has been grained and blanketed all winter and is in peak condition right now in preparation for this sale. As I said before, my concern is only for this 3 day period when he will be surrounded by strange horses, and in crowd situations where Im afraid he may kick, or at the least be pinning his ears and snapping at horses passing by in the sale area. We were hoping that the Regumate over a very limited time would be the answer, but are not willing to take the chance of causing sterility. Thankyou all for your advice and help, and I guess we will just do our best to keep him out of everyones way at the sale! He is a nice horse, and I believe that it is more of a defensive reaction than anything else. As I said previously he is great to breed with and not aggressive towards the mares at all. we breed with just a rope halter, no chain or anything. I think its possible he may have been in a situation where someone let him get kicked or maybe an agressive mare got into him, and that is why he acts the way he does.
Thanks again to all who responded.
Anonymous Posted From: 18.104.22.168
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 07:17 am:
I have a nine year old gelding that displays very slight stallion behavior in the spring and fall. Mostly, he becomes "preoccupied" with other things, other horses manuer (smells and urinates on it) shys, fidgety, nervous, etc. In his training he becomes tense and distracted. While I have had testostrone levels checked all points to his being a gelding. But...I'm frustrated with the visable difference in his behavior. He also "drops" during this period. Is hormone therapy an answer? and if so, Is it Regumate? Much thanks for all suggestions...
Anonymous Posted From: 22.214.171.124
Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 07:37 pm:
Are you sure your gelding has been comepletely gelded?.... Asside from that; most of what you describe are behavior issues that he has learned he can get away with..
At his age I am not sure regumate would work... if it is smell that distracts him try putting vicks in his nose, if he becomes distracted becasue of sight or hearing .. you can try him with blinkers or covering his ears.
Anonymous Posted From: 126.96.36.199
Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 11:39 pm:
The above horse is in Prof. training. Sadly, he has not "learned he can get away with" these behaviors. The forum topic is Stallion Behavior and the use of Regumate...
The more obvious question is...Are you sure your gelding has been completely gelded?...Is any owner sure? Not until questionable stallion like behaviors are documented on a continuous basis do horse owners ask this question. Clinical examination (cryptorchid vs ridgling vs residual tissue after casteration). All are enough to warrant the display of stallion like behavior and warrant an expert clinical investigation.
See above...Regumate acts like a "chemical casteration"...If this is true...does Regumate as a therapy have this same effect on an older gelding?
Vicks, blinkers and covering his ears...still do not get to the heart of the matter...Behavioral changes in geldings that portray stallion like behaviors.
Heather Posted From: 188.8.131.52
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:40 pm:
I have a question then.........If you can't use Regumate...what can you use? I also have a Paint stallion and after showing him over the weekend I do not want to bring him to another show without some sort of calming or relaxer. Please help!
Laurie Posted From: 184.108.40.206
Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 05:51 pm:
There isn't much you can use on them if you intend to show... You might try a little dab of Vicks (menthol rub) in each nostril...sometimes if they just see the other horses but can't smell them, it's enough to take the edge off.
Or, better yet, just start taking him somewhere every weekend or at least once a month and he should settle down eventually.
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