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Regumate during pregnancy

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Hormonal Manipulation » Regumate during pregnancy « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Linda Price
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos and everyone else!!
My question is in regards to using Regumate after the mare is in foal...once the daily dosing begins, when can I begin to test her blood levels to safely wean the mare ? Is it always the accepted protocol to keep them on for the 120 days and then begin to wean them off?
 

Jos
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Linda:

Initial Progesterone levels in the pregnant mare are supplied by the primary and secondary CL's. The secondary CL's come into play after about day 35 post-ovulation, when the endometrial cups are formed, which secrete PMSG, which stimulates the creation of the seconday CL's.

Around day 80, the placenta itself starts to produce Progesterone, and natural levels are at their highest between roughly days 56 and 160, but the peak level is at about day 120, and after that, levels start to decline. This is why the magical day of 120 is chosen to wean off Regumate.

There are several options open when using Regumate to assist in pregnancy maintenance (something which it has not been scientifically proven to do!).

Firstly, use it from day 3 post-ovulation until pregnancy is confirmed around day 16 by ultrasound. Progesterone levels should then be checked, and if less than 4 ng/ml, the Regumate continued. If greater, then the option to stop use is available.

The second option is to keep the mare on Regumate until about day 40, at which point once again, check the Progesterone levels and make your decision.

Thirdly, as with you, wean off at about day 120, when the natural level would be starting to decline anyway.

Fourthly, continue Regumate use through to day 300 of pregnancy. This method tends to be used only in habitual late-term abortion mares.

Hope this helps.

Jos
 

Judi M
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos. I just found your bulletin board and am very happy to have done so. Hope you are doing great. My question is this: My mare, Callie, is due to have her third foal. She is a very short coupled QH mare and has had to be on regumate for 120 days each time I have bred her. Being in foal is really hard on her as she doesn't have a lot of room for carrying a foal and she gets huge. She acts colicy a lot throughout her pregnancys which really bothers me. Should I give her a break and let her have a year off? I raise these foals for my own personal use and even though she is my best mare and has nice babies I wouldn't mind leaving her open for a year if it was in her best interest. Thank you for your help. Judi M/Slider from the old HorseNet.
 

Jos
Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Slider;
You don't mention how old your mare is. If she is older (more than 16) then you may not want to miss a year, as with some older mares, it seems that they will get in foal easier if they are bred each year, but if a year is missed, then it can be hard to get them in foal the following year.

If on the other hand, she is not that old then there would probably be no reason why you couldn't miss a year.

Hope this helps.
 

Angi
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos!

I have an older mare (unsure of exact age, but I believe to be older than 17). Last day of breeding was May 13, 2000. She is currently dripping milk, but her udder is small. We have no repro vets in this area. Two vets I spoke with yesterday stated that she was going to abort the foal, and they were sorry. My regular vet is coming to check her today, as he was unavailable yesterday. Is it possible to put her on regumate now until she reaches 300 days or is it too late in her pregnancy to do that? This is assuming that everything checks out ok. What dosage do you recommend? I can get this from my regular vet. So far he has been open to trying things for me as he is not up to date on reproduction. Do you have any other suggestions?
 

Jos
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your vets are right in that "Inappropriate lactation" as this is termed is usually a precursor at this stage to abortion.

There can be a number of possible reasons. Placentitis is a common one and the abortion can sometimes be held off by the use of Regumate; antibiotics and other drugs.

On the other hand, you could be looking at twins, one or both of which is being aborted, which you don't really want to halt.

So you're in a little bit of a catch 22 situation at the moment. I would feel inclined to give her the Regumate today and make sure your vet checks her tomorrow - I recognise it may be too late to do this tonight, but hopefully not. Give the usual dose for the size of the mare, as recommended on the bottle - often it is 10cc for a 1,000 pound mare.

Good luck!
 

Lisa Bates
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, you have always been most helpful to me and sadly, I find myself turning to you in crisis. My 25 year old QH mare has just aborted a 275 day fetus. She has had 16 foals and we got OUR first two years ago (May 1999). She was rebred then, only to abort prior to 3 months (late Aug). Bacteria was cultured so she was infused. She was left open until February 2000, took 3 months to get in foal, aiming finally for a late April 2001 colt. She was flushed and Caslicked to prevent another bacterial abortion. When the fetus was removed, all visual and pathological examinations came back with negative results. My vet feels the answers may be either uterus lining insufficiencies due to age and/or scarring, or possibly hormonal. We discussed doing a biopsy, but for me, I want to take the chance to get one more foal from her, even if it's a diminished chance. His suggestion has been to put her on Regumate for the entire pregnancy. My concerns are that this product is not one that I wish to handle at this point in my life, and yet want to have the best chance on getting a full term foal. My vet has heard anecdotal evidence of the progesterone implants working well for estrus suppression, but doesn't have any research or info on them for sustaining pregnancy. Do you have any ideas or suggestions, on ANY of this case? Thank you for this site and your willingness to share your knowledge!
 

Jos
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The progesterone implants have not been shown to assist in supporting pregnancy. You might try Depo-provera (injectable), but the results of research into the use of that have been mixed and conflicting.

Regumate is still shown anecdotally as being the most effective method - although even that is not scientifically supported by research results (more because of an inability to produce a reliable sample study group).

Good luck!
 

Sue Wootton
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi..I have a mare which I have mentioned on a another discussion forum. She is in hospital where she was originally taken for colic, however she has today been diagnosed as having placentitis at 9 months of pregnancy (she is due on the 8th June 2001). this is her 4th foal and she has had no problems prior to this the advice from the vets is just to hope she keeps the foal in long enough, I suggested the use of antibiotics and was told that it was'nt usually successful and it would damage the foal, however having read articles on this web site I see that antibiotics are considered a option there has also been no mention of using regumate. Has anyone any advice? I am told the foal is very much alive and kicking it seems so tragic nothing can be done!
 

Jos
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your vets are right in that placentitis is often indicative of a "lost cause", but the use of the antibiotic APO Sulfatrim, coupled with Progesterone, Banamine and Ventipulmin may save the pregnancy. This is however not a cheap route to go.

If your vets continue to tell you there is no alternative, I would suggest that you seek a second opinion, perhaps from your local Veterinary Teaching University Hospital.

You do however have to act fast.

Good luck!
 

Sue Wootton
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for the advice Jos, my mare is actually at the local veterinary university hospital. She still has the foal and I am told she is perky and comfortable. The vets have not actually quoted the word placentitis to me but I have assumed that is what they mean. I assume that it is the infection that has caused the placenta seperation in places, however I did maybe think that the seperation could have occured because of the colic and her throwing herself around. I have noted the above and I will discuss it with the vets, at the moment I am just wondering if and when she is going to lose her foal and if it can possibly survive.
 

Sue Morton
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have posted a rather lengthy message in the group Equine-Repro list concerning my mare and the foal I lost... should you want further information concerning my question (see subject: Odds of defective foal on 2nd try?).

So, my question here: Is there any evidence that indicates Regumate might maintain what is otherwise a marginal pregnancy (marginal with regard to ova quality)?

Thanks for any info, and regards,

Sue Morton
 

Jos
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely!

In fact Regumate (or any progesterone use) can even maintain pregnancy status (i.e. closed cervix) when the foal is in fact dead. This is one reason that it's use in abortion situations must be carefully monitored.
 

Kelly Beauvais (66.73.177.182)
Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi!

I have an eight-year-old Haflinger mare from whom no one has been nursing since July 2001, and her foal at that time was over a year old! I bought her in March 2001 and took her off that farm in July 2001. She is still lactating now. I want to have her bred in 2003 so want to resolve this problem to get her balanced prior to that - and just for her health and well-being for the most part. Is there a name for this condition? And do you know of any natural way to balance a horse's hormones as I would balance my own? I'm presently researching the use of Regumate. Thank you for your time.

Kelly Beauvais
 

Sienna (207.177.47.189)
Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 14 year old appy mare that has been having problems maintaining her pregnacies. She was first bred as a 9 year old, consieved on the first try, carried to term no problem, and gave birth to a healthy foal. I then bred her on her second foal heat and she had a false pregnacy even going as far as making milk when she should have been due to foal. The following year she was bred twice loosing both foals. Each time she was in foal when checked a 4mo but not at 6mo. This past year I bred her once and she either didn't take or she lost it pretty early. I bred her again and this time put her on Regumate. She is now 8 1/2 mo pregnant and doing fine. I would like to breed her agin early next year, but I'm not sure I want to deal with the Regumate. Is it possable that her homones will correct themselves, or is she going to need Regumate for all additional pregnencies to be maintained
 

applewood (12.145.186.66)
Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I have a mare at my barn that the owner has not been able to get in foal for 3 years. She is not a maiden mare and has had 3 other foals her youngest foal is 3 years old. She is 18 years old now. She was bred to my stallion and we got her in foal. Her last bred date Was March 7th we checked her in foal, and now checked her blood and her test came out 2.5. The vet suggested a shot of progesterone right away and recheck her blood in 10 days to see if her body naturally adjusted.. If not regumate..

The owner said she never has had a problem before and has never ever been tested so this could be her normal level.. I disagree feel that if this is normal she would of never carried a foal full term at these levels. She siad she is not doing anythign because there is no Scientific proof progesterone or Regumate does any good...

What do you thing?
 

linda carroll (12.90.32.251)
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a mare on regumate and wanted to know a bit more about "weaning" her off the hormone at 120 days. I'm guessing it's not ok to just stop the regumate?
Linda
 

ELizabeth Hardy (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda before you consider taking her off regumate talk with your vet to see if she should remain on regumate til the 10th month or if she can come off now?

IF she is a late term Aborter you may not want her off the regumate.

Even if the regumate was only to help maintain her pregnancy be cause she was not producing enough progesterone on her own.. I would have her Progesterone levels drawn... ( you will need several drawn during a 24 hr period) to make sure she is producing the levels needed to maintain her pregnancy.. if she is not you will have to leave her on regumate til the 10th month.

And there is a weaning schedule but it will depend on how long the mare was on the regumate and how much she is receiving ..
 

linda carroll (12.90.32.188)
Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mare has had one foal without any hormonal help. When she was checked in foal this year, she had less than optimal tone (18 days, I think). We checked progesterone levels and she was borderline and my vet thought that since she had not the best tone, it might make sense to put mare on regumate for 120 days - esp. since we spent a pretty penny getting her uterus cleaned up.
I sort of vaguely remember her not having perfect tone on her first foal and pregnancy went fine then (but that was five years ago and I'm not absolutely sure).
Linda
 

Jan Larson
Neonate
Username: Jan_larson

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 13yr old AQHA mare that was bred and confirmed in foal by ultrasound. (She had a foal in 2004.) At that time her progrestrone levels were to low and she was put on regumate for 90 days to maintain pregnancy. I have about another 30 days of giving the regumate and now the mare is lactating. My concern of course is abortion of the embryo at this point. Has anyone ever heard of a mare lactating on regumate without losing the foal? the vet that has been helping me says this is a rare occurance and is concerned about abortion of fetus.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 900
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lactation at this stage is unlikely to be associated with impending abortion.

How many blood samples were taken, and over what period of days to determine that there was a "low progesterone level" and that Regumate supplementation was required? A single (or even two or three) sample(s) is insufficient. Sampling must be performed 3 or 4 times a day for 3 or 4 consecutive days before pronouncing "low progesterone". And what is "low"? That hasn't to the best of my knowledge been determined! 4 ng/ml has been suggested, but pregnancies are routinely retained on levels as low as 1.8 ng/ml!!!
 

Graeme
Neonate
Username: Tracer

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello there- I would be greatful if I could laern some news on this matter.

My mare suffered a very bad injury to her hind leg at 196 of pregnancy, the vet put her on regumate till 282 and she has foaled a filly at 336 days- a little small they say, but healthy. Would being on regumate effect the foal and will it effect the mare for her next breeding, in a few weeks as previously occured? Many thanks,

Graeme
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no reason that the Regumate would have negatively impacted the mare or the foal. Side-effects are minimal, and research indicates that Regumate is compatible for use in pregnant mares.
 

Renee Scucci
Neonate
Username: Onechaser

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Friday, October 09, 2009 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an eight year old thoroughbred mare that is 5 months in foal. She acts like a stallion, squeels, kicks and paws in her stall and out in the paddock. I can't put her out with any other mare because she herds them , pinning her ears and just about runs them to death. But, she also acts bad when she is alone. She is a real idiot. The vet said her testosterone levels are a bit high, but offered no solution as to how to help her behavior problems. Can I put her on regumate to help her act like a broodmare instead of a stallion? She even pins her ears at cats..she has some real mental problems. I am concerned she will attack her foal. I have seen a mare do this and it is horrible. We will not be breeding this mare again, as she has been a problem mare for 2 years. But I need to get her through this one without any more problems with her behavior. She is great when being handled and is repectful with people. Just an idiot with everything else. Any thoughts on the regumate?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2636
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 05:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At certain stages of pregnancy, the fetus produces testosterone (whether it is a colt or a filly - no difference), and it is as a result of this that the mare may develop a more dominant attitude during that period. The levels will tend to peak somewhere in mid-pregnancy and will have dropped by birth, so it is extremely unlikely that the behaviour will present post-foaling. Regumate is unlikely to make a significant difference (although you could try it if you wish), and simply waiting it out is probably the better (and definitely the cheaper) course.
 

Renee Scucci
Neonate
Username: Onechaser

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, thanks for your responce. I think we will try the regumate. Last year after she foaled, she wouldn't settle down. Her foal never got to rest, and she darn near ran it around the paddock to death. I have seen her herd her foal when the foal ran off a bit. But she pins her ears and gets too aggressive. She doesn't eat properly, and her teeth have been checked. They are fine. She shows no appitite most of the time and looses weight easily. We have tried everthing to help her appitite,ie more muscle..papaya..gastro guard..shes just a problem mare. I have never seen a mare like this. She is just as bad with her foal as she is in foal. I had hoped she would settle down, but hasn't.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2637
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not all mares are good candidates as broodmares... :-(
 

Renee Scucci
Neonate
Username: Onechaser

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree. I am going to do the horse world a big favor and this one will not reproduce again. Too many unwanted horses as it is and no need to reproduce more of the same. Thanks for your earlier info.
 

Ann
Breeding Stock
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 113
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Jos, not all mares are god broodmares.

As far as her being a hard keeper, have you tried beet pulp? Corn will also put weight on horses.

Good luck!
 

Shelley Housh
Nursing Foal
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 17 yr old mare has multiple uterine cysts. The vet just confirmed her pregnancy at 16 days and recommended regumate until day 45 for her poor uterine tone. Is regumate recommended for poor tone?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2959
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 10:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Altrenogest - the active ingredient in Regumate - will improve uterine tone, as will other progestins and also (during pregnancy) estrogens.
 

Paul
Neonate
Username: Opua

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 03:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, thank you for providing this forum and for your answers to questions posed above.

My 15 year old mare who happens to have a long and extremely tight cervix was put on Regu-Mate on day 4 post ovulation because of the past history of having resorbed a pregnancy once past 28 days approximately 9 years ago- the only other time she was bred. (No hormone level testing has been done.)

Have there been any long-term studies done to determine whether foals from pregnancies in which Regu-Mate was used have had unusual reproductive organ issues, reproductive issues, or higher rates of cancers, or higher rates of any other issues?

Have there been any long term studies on mares that have used Regumate during pregnancy to determine whether there might be health effects? Has there been statistical confirmation in a well designed and controlled study as to whether or not mares that use Regu-Mate become Regu-Mate dependent for maintaining future pregnancies?

I'm asking because I'm a bit uncomfortable with the use of hormones during pregnancy without evidence that this mare really needs this, and because of the history of the drug Diethylstilbestrol (DES). Unfortunately, it was used in humans for the purpose of maintaining pregnancy for decades with the result that significant numbers of young women and young men born experienced higher rates of reproductive abnormalities and cancers in particular cervical cancer. (I realize that DES is an estrogen and that Regu-Mate is a progestin, which have different functions, and that if foals have been affected the effects would likely be different from those of DES.)

Thank you in advance.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3394
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Have there been any long-term studies done to determine whether foals from pregnancies in which Regu-Mate was used have had unusual reproductive organ issues, reproductive issues, or higher rates of cancers, or higher rates of any other issues?




The initial research performed when Regumate was being investigated for FDA approval demonstrated that in some cases there were incidences of masculinization of the external female reproductive organs, manifested as enlargement of the clitoris. There has not, to the best of my knowledge, been any other research that either demonstrated or disputed the other aspects of your question.


quote:

Have there been any long term studies on mares that have used Regumate during pregnancy to determine whether there might be health effects?




Not that I am aware of.


quote:

Has there been statistical confirmation in a well designed and controlled study as to whether or not mares that use Regu-Mate become Regu-Mate dependent for maintaining future pregnancies?




Not that I am aware of. Aurich et. al. have recently demonstrated a down-regulation effect on progesterone receptors in mares treated with Regumate, but in another piece of research they showed no differences in endogenous secretion of progesterone in altrenogest-treated mares. There was however an impact on eCG secretion (Willmann C., Budik S., Walter I., Aurich C.; (July 2011) Influences of treatment of early pregnant mares with the progestin altrenogest on embryonic development and gene expression in the endometrium and conceptus; Theriogenology 76:1, 61-73). This area could well use more research.

While it is clear that there is a lot of unnecessary use of progestin supplementation in pregnant mares, it is worth while considering that Regumate has been used "to support pregnancy" (note inverted commas) for quite a long time - I would estimate somewhere in the region of 15+ years. From a clinical perspective, during that time frame, there has not been a connected increase in issues such as you have concerns about. It is well-acknowledged that progestin therapy may result in an increase in endometrial infection in susceptible mares (something that is in the label warning), but other than that, there are not major concerns related to the mare or foal from a current clinical perspective.

The question of whether it is actually advantageous in it's use in the vast majority of cases, or just a waste of breeder's money is a completely different question! :-)



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