The place where i have my mare boarded (the 4 year old b/w paint maiden mare) says that they put shaving down for their mares to foal on, but i have been told by my vet that i should use straw and definetly not shavings. i see her point with the shavings sticking to the foal and all of the fluids and getting into every orafice on the foal but i also see the side that the straw is course and may injure and eye or other tender new born flesh. what is your opinion?
Jos
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 08:28 am:
Straw is undoubtedly the best bedding, with the exception of barley straw, which should not be used (it has sharp little "hales" in it from the barley head that can irritate the animals skin). Ideally you want wheat straw.
The straw should be bedded to a depth of about 12 inches on the floor of the stall, and all around the walls it should be built up to about 24 inches, which will protect the mare and the foal from coming into an abrupt contact with the wall. It will take 3 to 4 bales of straw to bed down a 12 x 12 stall correctly the first time doing this (depending upon bale size of course). Once it is bedded, the wet straw and manure can be removed each day, and replaced with dry straw. This will usually mean the addition of about a half to one bale of fresh straw per day.
In the event that this bedding method is carried out, there will be sufficient straw to permit a very soft and comfortable bed, and it is extremely unlikely that the foal would be injured as a result of the use of straw.
Many people not familiar with the use of straw as a bedding material dislike using it under the premise that it takes more time to clean the stall than it does with shavings or sawdust. In fact when one is familiar with it's use, it takes about the same amount of time, and produces a far cleaner stall.
Shavings and sawdust are really not good bedding for a mare foaling, and I fully support your veterinarian's views on the matter.
do you mean that the mare should be in the birthing stall 24 hours a day? they leave them up at night and out in a paddock during the day. If she is up 24 hours a day how do you prevent them from starting to crib?
Jos
Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 07:12 am:
It's not necessary that she be in the stall 24/7, and is in fact undesirable. The majority of mares foal at night though, so you are safe in leaving her out by day, but bringing her in at night. The exposure factor for antibody prevention does not require that she be in the stall all the time either.
Cribbing should not be a problem, even if the mare is kept in most of the time, unless she is already predisposed towards it, in which case you should probably be using an anti-crib device, if you are not all ready.
thanks the people at the barn where i board had a fit when i showed up with the straw. they said that if she eats too much of it(and she will eat it) then it can colic her. I knew it would be a struggle bringing straw into their way of doing things, but do they have a legitimate point. I am just a worry wort I guess.
Jos
Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 08:33 pm:
As long as she is getting sufficient hay, she shouldn't eat the straw!
Your barn owners are over-reacting! (Probably in part as a result of not wanting to deal with the straw!) In North America, shavings and sawdust are the most common bedding used for horses, but in Europe, and especially Britain, straw is used almost exclusively for all horses - not just broodmares.
In fairness to the barn owners, it is true that if a horse repeatedly eats ALL it's straw bedding, then it could (note: COULD not will) lead to colic. The same could be said to some extent however for any other roughage eaten to excess. And as I say, as long as she has hay in front of her, she is far less likely to bother with the straw. In the unlikely event that you do see her eating a lot of straw, you can sprinkle a little disinfectant such as Pine-Sol onto it (dilute it in water first), and that will stop her in a hurry.
Don't be dissuaded! Foal this mare out on straw! All the best breeding farms throughout the world do it!
thank you so much. we just broke down our birthing stall yesterday and guess what we lined it with? Straw, yeah! Once they saw we were determined to use it they didnt put up too much of a fuss and actually helped break the stall down and clean it out. Oh yeah one more question, they put lime down (they have a dirt floor to their stalls, no concrete) on the dirt before we put the straw in. Have you ever heard of using lime and what does it do? He said it killed the germs, but i had never heard of using it but then again i am new at this. When we brought our mare in last night to her new stall she really protested the straw. she didnt care at all for it being under her feet. i am hoping she will get used to it and eventually prefer it for it's warmth (it was 20 degrees here last night). Again thanks for all of your mind easing help. i am ready as much imformation as i can on the subject but sometimes i feel the books are a bit out dated so it is nice to have a real live person to confirm what the books are saying. will let you know if there are any new developments. she still hasnt progressed any. oh well i guess now it is a waiting game. Oh by the way, we had our first attempt at mucking the straw last night, it wasnt easy of too effective. is there a different tool we can use to be more effective than a 5 pronged mucking fork or will it just take practice? thanks again.
oh by the way another mare at the barn foaled last night. she had a sorrel and white overo colt. he is kinda small but beautiful. she had him outside in the cold because they hadnt gotten the shaving put into the broken down stall yet. they keep telling me that is the best way to have them so that i dont interfere and cause the mom to reject the foal. anyway he is a very nice looking foal even though the owners dont think so (they wanted black and white).
Jos
Posted on Monday, October 09, 2000 - 07:45 pm:
Putting lime in the stall is perfectly normal practice, and does indeed cut down on germs, and will dry the stall floor somewhat too.
To muck out with straw, one usually uses a 5-prong muck fork. You start by picking up the manure (and a little of the soiled straw that goes with it); next clear the still-clean straw in the center to the outside. This will expose the wet straw at the bottom, which you then remove. Next move all the straw that you have piled around the outside into the center, and clean any piles of manure or wet patches you find while doing it. Place the new straw you are adding for the day around the walls at the outside of the stall, then build up the walls, and level off the straw in the middle so you don't have deep and shallow patches there. Doing it this way will result in a continual "turnover" of straw, and once you get used to it, you should be able to do it in 5 to 10 minutes.
Straw is far warmer for bedding than shavings. It's fine to foal outside if the weather is warm and dry, and as long as someone is able to see the mare. And there's a big difference between "being there", and "interfering". Sometimes seconds can mean the difference between a live foal or a dead one. You're doing the right thing by foaling inside at this time of the year.
I have had my mare in a birthing stall since the 9th of Oct. because we thought she was due the 14th of Oct., well she still hasnt foaled yet. Anyway my question is this, The stall is really smelling of ammonia and I would appreciate any help or suggestions on keeping the stall cleaner than I am now. I muck the stall every day taking out wet and dirty straw. It usually amounts to 2 full wheelbarrows a day. Oh, by the way my mare is only in the stall at night. I have been told that lime works to dry and cut down on the ammonia,but how often and how much can you lime a stall without hurting the mare or the soon to be foal? Are there any other suggestions? I hope I dont have to muck this straw for much longer, every day for 2 months waiting on this baby is getting very tiring. Is it true that after the baby is born I can go back to shavings or saw dust? Anyway, thanks for the help.
Jos
Posted on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 04:22 pm:
As the lime is put beneath the bedding and only a small amount is used, there is no danger to the mare or foal. I do not recommend using it with the mare and/or foal actually in the stall because of their inhaling it while it is still airborne, but as you indicate the mare is turned out all day, this is not a problem. If you were to put the bedding to the sides of the stall after you muck out in the morning and sprinkle the lime on the wet patches and not put the bedding back down until just before you bring the mare in in the evening, this will give the stall a good chance to dry through the day too. Also, are you using sufficient straw? Often there is an ammonia smell associated with not enough bedding use, as the urine can't be absorbed.
Once the foal has arrived and is a couple of days old, you can revert to shavings or sawdust - the important point is that the umbilicus is closed.
Bedding is such a personal preference - I personally prefer straw year-round!
that is what i do, push the straw to the side and lime it and let it dry until i put her back up in the evening. the issue of whether i use enought straw may be the problem. i dont use a lot of straw at all. it is to hard to clean and dispose of at the barn where i board. they are already dissatisfied with me using it, but asking them to dispose of tons of it is not a good idea. i will try using more and see if it helps. i use lots of lime when i lime the stall. i usually use 1 to 1 1/2 coffee cans at a time.
I WAS WONDERING IF BAKING SODA(SODIUM BICARBONATE) MIGHT HELP WITH THE AMMONIA SMELL IN MY STALL. IS IT SAFE AROUND HORSES? IT WORKS IN THE REFRIGERATOR WHY NOT THE STALL? I HAVE TONS LEFT FROM THE SUMMER SWIMMING MONTHS (I USE IT IN THE POOL TO CONTROL THE PH LEVEL).
Jos
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 02:19 am:
I have never used baking soda, but only lime. I suspect it may work though, but it will still not reduce the ammonia smell if you are not using sufficient bedding!
Good luck.
Anonymous
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 02:25 pm:
What's best to construct a foaling stall? I'll probably add a 16x16 onto my existing wood barn. At first I thought concrete block because it would be easier to disinfect. Yet there are disadvantages like being cold or moist. Could heavy, smooth plywood be used for walls, and could it be protected with something like polyurethane safely? What building materials should I consider? Do I need stall mats? I may only breed one foal!
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:34 pm:
It is almost impossible to disinfect even concrete block completely, so the solidity it provides is somewhat redundant and as you point out, it is cold or possibly moist. Wood will serve just as well.
If you do choose to use concrete, you can indeed face it with plywood - or even the rubber floor mats you are contemplating putting on the floor.
The floor will have to be bedded deeply (usually with straw) for the foaling, so although floormats are good, they would not prevent that requirement.
Hope this helps.
Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 05:48 pm:
WOW! I really got a response! And i hadn't thought of using the mats on the walls. Pricey, I'm sure, but an alternative. I would really prefer to use wood construction to block or concrete. I would welcome any other replies and information on what should be done with a foaling stall during construction. I've thought of dimmers on the lights, observation window/peephole, ceiling room for fans/heaters, solid walls to a certain height, etc. What other aspects of design and safety can you think of? Doors, windows, and equipment need to be foal-safe, so what do you experienced people like to see? How much privacy does the mare really need? THANKS!!!
My satll walls are metal 7'4" high cost is about $850.00 for 12x12 but I made mine 12X16 for foaling stalls, front wall has bars feed door 4' swing door side walls are solid for privacy I turn mares an babies out daily.
I LOVE the straw! Last week, the stall was flooded so I needed to pull up the stall mats, add four inches of 1 1/4" stone. The stall is 20 feet by 10 feet. Then I added about 4 bales of straw andit's the best. I have always used shavings and I thought that was the easiest, but the urine gets kicked around and it's harder to clean. With the straw, the urine goes right to the bottm, leaving the top clean and soft and even the poop stays in piges instead of getting kicked around. It's going to be nice when the foal comes.
Ilive in New England and have been bedding on straw for years. I try to convince friends that it is superior to shavings/sawdust with little success. I'm waiting on a foal (June 7th) and I'm happy that bedding is one detail I don't have to worry about! It's not always easy to find at a reasonable price, so I urge anyone who knows they're going to need it to start shopping early. My local feed store gets $7./bale (!)- I buy it from a farm for $3. (clean, bright and heavy bales). Personally, I'd introduce it to a mom-to-be at least a couple of months before d-date.
Karen (209.206.253.184)
Posted on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 07:52 pm:
Hate to disagree with all of you, I live on a cattle ranch in Oregon. Don't own a barn at all and I don't think you can beat a clean grass field, and warm weather for foaling! Have 4 newborns on the ground and all are doing great!
Kelly (63.172.47.196)
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 10:22 am:
Lucky you! I agree with you on this, however, not everyone has access to the beautiful green fields in Oregon.
I have tried to have a paddock with grass and a cover for my mares, but not always possible. If they end up in a foaling stall, I bed them with coastal hay and keep it clean and fresh. That way, if they eat it, no problem!
Anonymous (63.49.180.146)
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:50 pm:
Question on straw..... If good hay is significantly cheaper than straw in your area (alfalfa blend hay here is about $4.00 per bale... not sure about straw), then is there a reason why you couldn't just use hay to bed instead of straw?
Obviously, the benefit would be that they could eat it if they wanted... If it was cheaper, that would also be good.... What would the drawbacks be?
ELizabeth Hardy (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:27 pm:
Hay for bedding is okay but not a mix with alfalfa in it,, find another type of hay such as coastal hay. Alfalfa is too rich to feed in large quantities ( or Free choice) and even mixed with other hay she would consume more than is good for her.
then when the foal is born you do not want the foal to eat too much of it either
Liz
Kelly (63.172.47.237)
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 06:19 pm:
Since I do not normally bed with straw, I use coastal hay for foaling. I make certain that the mare has a fresh pile in front of her to eat. I have had some horses that would eat the straw even with good hay in front of them. It is just as easy with the coastal, and I have no worries.
Just before foaling is not time to introduce them to straw in my opinion. However, with good hay available, most horses will adjust to straw very well. Make sure that this is done before the mare is ready to foal and in more confinement.
ELizabeth Hardy (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:23 pm:
Just an afterthought on this topic Ssinful foaled out last Friday ( 9/13) on a thick bed of coastal hay.. She and foal love it and it willbe hard to go back to shavings...
What we actually did is strip the stall of all it's used shavings and the put one bag of shavings (dust free) in and covered that with a 4-6 layer of hay.
The stall was picked out daily.. and Additional hay was added when needed usually about 1-2 flaks a day.
Now that she has foaled we are no longer adding hay and her stall will be stripped again next week and she will go back to shavings...
Hi, I'm a very worried Brit with a mare that I am sure will get impaction colic on straw as she is an Andalusian imported from Spain where they feed straw rather then hay. She has been on shavings since her arrival but is due to have her first foal in the next few weeks and I am desperate to find a suitable bedding other then shavings. I have a surplus of meadow hay ( mixed pasture grasses), it is lovely stuff and very palatable -would it be alright as bedding?
Elizabeth Hardy
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 09:52 am:
Meadow hay sounds very close to coastal hay.. and I would not think it would hurt her if used as bedding. as for Impaction colic make sure she has plenty of fresh water Available . and if She is really prone to this you might add a little vegetable oil to her her diet.. it is a good source of fat , will help her coat and will help prevent impaction colic...
But the best advice is keep her well supplied with water. The Meadow hay should not be a problem.
Anonymous
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 03:39 am:
We grow our own hay so we bed on that. I have bedded on shavings in the past and find that it is much less work to clean the hay bedded stall. I park the manure wagon at the doorway and work toward the back of the stall forking big forkfuls of soiled bedding into the wagon. Then I rake up the small stuff, flip it into the wagon and I am ready to fill it up again with fresh hay. I find it takes much less time than sifting through shavings looking for wet spots and piles. I realize not everyone has this much hay at their disposal (no pun intended) but I find that I have a cleaner stall that takes less time to maintain a stall by using plenty of hay. Labor (or your time) isn't free either. Additionally, I would not foal a mare out on shavings.
Anonymous Posted From: 65.65.234.212
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2004 - 12:16 pm:
I live in MO and our pasture is Fescue which is something you need to keep a mare off of at least the last 60-90 days of foaling. So she can't foal in pasture. I have a small barn with a dirt floor. I have it bedded with straw and wonder what should I use to disinfect under the straw to make sure she and foal is bacteria free as much as possible. From reading all the messages above I see that lime is an option. Is there a problem if the mare or foal gets into it by digging in the straw. Who knows what they will do when they are closed up. If anyone has alternate ideas other than mats I'd appreciate it. I only have the one mare. She is due within the next two weeks.
Jos Posted From: 137.186.22.145
Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 11:46 am:
You cannot disinfect sufficiently to make any difference. It can be difficult to even disinfect concrete properly, so dirt is impossible.
Make sure that you have sufficient straw in the stall. I regularly see people putting one bale in a 10x10 stall and thinking that is sufficient. Unless it's a REALLY big bale, it's not! Typically it takes 3 or 4 regular sized (40 lb) bales to bed a 10x10 from scratch. And remember - not barley straw!
I've used shredded newspaper for my foaling mares this year and it works well. We have thick EVA mats on concrete floors - the EVA mats are much warmer and softer than rubber.
The paper is warm and absorbent and doesn't get up foals' noses or in their mouths.
Kristin Posted From: 68.81.164.242
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 12:02 pm:
I switched my whole barn over to straw, when I switched my mare. (easier to get one delivery, rather then one for straw and one for shavings).
Anyway, a couple of my horses have started eating the straw. They usually only do it right before mealtimes when they have run out of hay. None of them prefer it over hay. I have VERY easy keepers so I can't feed them hay all the time even though that would solve the problem. Will the straw eating hurt them? What can I do to stop them from eating straw?
Jos Posted From: 137.186.22.51
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 12:08 pm:
Straw-eating has been suggested as a possible link to colic, but to be honest, I have never really found that to be the case, and indeed, in the western US it is common to feed "oat hay" which is in fact oat straw with the oats not harvested first.
A bigger problem to my mind is they end up with no bedding!!
What sort of straw are you using? Horses will tend to eat oat straw more readily that wheat straw.
Try sprinkling a light dusting of a pine-solution (or other strong-smelling/tasting) disinfectant over the straw. Not enough to wet the straw, just enough to leave a trace of a taste on the straw - that generally will stop all straw-eaters but the most determined.
Kristin Posted From: 68.81.164.242
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 01:09 pm:
I'm not sure what type of straw it is. We only just switched to straw and I wasn't the one who ordered it. I'll check it out though. It would be nice if just changing to wheat straw fixed it.
I'll try putting disinfectant on the straw, but I have one particularily piggy Haflinger gelding that I'm pretty sure this won't deter. It may work for the rest of them though.
Thanks for all the advice and the quick response.
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