I bought a 4 year old black and white tob mare in March of 2000. I bought this particular mare because of her gentleness and wonderful disposition, oh and because she was open (supposedly). We had no intentions of breeding out mare for a couple of years. She was meant to be a riding buddy and companion to my 10 year old daughter but, as we found out 2 months after we bought her, she is in foal. We know nothing about foaling, we are even pretty new to owning our own horse. Anyway, this is her first pregnancy and we are not even sure of the date of breeding, how long she will go or if she will have a normal delivery and foal. We are working with a vet here but she really cant tell us much without a breeding date. She says you cant ultrasound a mare this far along or she says you cant see anything this far along. She thinks she is 9 maybe even 10 months. We really want to make this work since there's not a lot we can do about it, my daughter is to in love with this mare to sell her. How can we be there when she foals if we dont know the breeding date. She is a registered paint horse and there were 3 studs at the farm that she came from (1 a reg. paint, and 2 were reg. quarters). So I hope we get a nice foal, but we are really concerned about what to do for her and the foal at the time of foaling as well as being there for the foaling so we can do these things. HELP!!!
Jos
Posted on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 07:48 am:
This is an unfortunate situation, but not hopeless!
There is an article on the site about predicting foaling, which you may have already read, if not you can view it by clicking here. It tells you about looking at the udder secretions, and the changes that occur immediately prior to foaling.
You will also have to watch for the "changing shape" of the mare - this is even more important, as you may not even be able to get a gauge on when to start looking at the udder secretions, as you don't know when she was bred. As the pregnancy progresses, and nears term, you will see a change in the position of the foal - the mare's belly will "drop" - and also you will see a relaxing of the muscles that run from over the top of the mare's rump to around the root of her tail. All of these things are indicative of impending parturition.
The gestation period is most commonly around 341 days, or about 11 months, but there is a fairly wide variation each side of that number of days - 30 days or so before, or more after - so if your vet. thinks the mare may be at 9 or 10 months now, she could foal soon! Start watching carefully, and make sure she has a stall big enough to foal in - ideally at least 12' x 12', although a little smaller probably won't hurt where she's a slightly smaller mare. You should plan on having some straw for bedding too, as that is a better bedding material than sawdust or shavings to foal on. And if it is practical, you might want to buy a cheap video surveillance camera and monitor to set up in the stall so that you can check her every hour or so without having to get out of bed when you think she is about to foal.
You might also want to find another breeder local to you who has experience foaling, and talk to them. It's often good to have someone with experience that you can call on to come and look at the mare if you feel you see something different.
Thanks for all the info. What is you opinion of the choice between iodine vs. 0.5% chlohexadine solution for the navel? Will all of these changes take place quickly or suddenly? Right now my mare doesnt have any sign (loose tush, elongated vulva, bagging) but she is carrying pretty low. My reg. vet says they can bag the day they foal and with her being a maiden mare we never know what she is gonna do, but my back up vet says that if she doesnt bag soon then we should start her on some drugs to help her produce milk. The previous owner game me a breed date of Nov. 7, 1999 but the studs were at the same barn with her until Jan. or Feb. 2000. So we really dont know when she got pregnant. I really dont want to do the drug thing but I also dont want to be caught with a mare that is dry. How sudden can these changes come on?
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 08:39 am:
First off, and most importantly, DO NOT induce milk production (or labour) unless there is a very specific reason (and an apparent absence of milk or "bagging up" is not one, especially in a maiden mare), such as the mare's having been exposed to endophyte infected fescue grass. The first milk (colostrum) from a mare is essential for the well-being of the foal, and if production is artificially stimulated far in advance of foaling, the colostrum can be lost. Do not be alarmed by the apparent absence of "bagging up", some mares don't even do it until AFTER the foal is born!
Some of the changes can be subtle, and gradually appear over a time period, and others can be quite rapid. The change in position of the foal is pretty obvious and rapid, whereas the relaxation of the rump muscles will take place over a couple of days. The relaxation of the vulva can be either, but is more usually seen in the last 24 hours or so before foaling.
Chlorhexidine is now the recommended treatment for the navel. It has been shown that iodine can actually slow the sealing and healing process of the umbilical stump.
Do not rush this mare! Nature will "do it's thing" in the vast majority of cases perfectly satisfactorily. That is not to say you should not be present at the foaling, because things can and do go wrong, which can be easily fixed if there is a person in attendance, but too much human intervention can be bad too!
I would really encourage you to seek out a breeder local to you who has a lot of experience in foaling, and talk to them. Most will be happy to help, especially as this is a slower time of year for breeding and foaling.
There is an e-mail group that may be of assistance to you that is dedicated to foaling. The URL for the subscription site (it's free) is available by clicking here.
Thank You for the info. I was really NOT wanting to go the drug route. I am definetly not trying to rush her. I want the foal to have all of the time it needs to "cook". So it sounds like you dont advise imprinting the foal? I was just worried that I should be seeing all of these signs two, three weeks even a month before she foals and I know she's not THAT far out from foaling. Thanks for the help, will keep you posted.
Oh yeah, we pulled her off pasture 2 1/2 months ago and put her in a dirt paddock. She is on Omelene 300 (5 1/2 lbs. per day) and free access Bermuda Hay.
Jos
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 05:13 am:
Imprinting is fine up to a point, and if performed by someone that knows what they are doing.
It is more important that the mare and the foal bond, than the human and the foal - unless of course you plan on moving into the barn and feeding the foal! There is a danger (and this is especially the case with a maiden mare, who is an unknown entity in her motherhood behavior) that the mare will become disturbed by too much human interference, and will reject the foal.
On the other hand, it certainly is good to get the foal's ears, legs etc. handled soon after birth so it quickly understands that humans are not necessarily a bad thing, and some mares seem to be far happier when there is a human present during foaling.
So, as I say, experience in this is good, as you really need to know the signs that the mare is becoming disturbed, and to therefore back off.
One more caveat about imprinting - some people have noticed that foals that have been imprinted heavily tend to have less respect for their humans, and are inclined to invade the human handler's space more than a non-imprinted foal. This can be a problem, depending upon the degree of invasion.
As I said above, timing of signs varies considerably. One caution - do not rely on "waxing up" as being a signal of impending foaling. It is probably the most unreliable and misrepresented predictor out there!! Some mares will wax up weeks in advance, some days, some hours, some not at all! One constantly hears people talking about it as a reliable predictor though!
As far as feed - look at your mare. She is at the stage now when she needs maximum feed. The foal grows the most in the last three months of pregnancy, and once she foals milk production burns a lot of food. If she looks "OK" now, then you've got the feed level right. If she looks thin, increase the feed quite a bit, as she is going to need more in the immediate future. And there really isn't a set amount that's suitable for all mares, so you have to feed to suit the individual. Free choice hay is good.
I called the owner that bred my mare and he swears that she was bred on Nov 7 1999 and no other time. that would make her official "due date"(342 days) Oct. 14, but she is not really showing any signs. she has a little swelling in front of her utter(bag) but she hasnt formed a bag at all and i cant express anything from the teat. We are trying the temperature method as well as looking for signs and her temperature was a little lower this morning than usual but she is showing none of the other signs ( oh yeah, she does seem to have "dropped a bit). The barn where i board her says that i shouldnt put her in a birthing stall at night until she waxes up. I dont trust my mare to wax and i am afraid of her having it in the paddock (it is getting below freezing at night here for the next week they say). I just dont know what to do i know she is my horse and i have the ultimate say but i dont want to go against their experience either. Can you help?
Jos
Posted on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 08:12 am:
The mare should be in the foaling stall ideally at least a month prior to her foaling. This is for a couple of reasons.
Most importantly, it will allow her to be exposed to any organisms that may be present in the stall, and enable her body to build antibodies to them, that will then be passed on to the foal in the colostrum.
Secondly, from a healthy mental aspect, it is best that the mare is permitted to foal in an area she is familiar and comfortable in, and this is less likely to be achieved if she is placed into new and unfamliar surroundings at the last moment.
We've already discussed that it is quite possible that as your mare is a maiden mare, she will show little, if any, signs of impending foaling. This makes it all the more important to have her in an area suitable to foal well within the bounds of her estimated due dates - i.e. now. You are right in your position that she should have access to the foaling stall now.
As it would appear that your mare is indeed likely to foal within the next 30 days, you should also now give her her regular booster innoculations for diseases such as tetanus, EEE, WEE, VEE, Flu' etc. This will permit maximum levels of antibody presence in the colostrum. If she has already been innoculated for these within the last three to four months, then at least give her another tetanus innoculation.
no more changes, she still has some swelling in front of where they bag should be but no bag. i know i seem that i am rushing things but i'm not i am just a real anxious worry wort and i dont want to miss this. i have discovered that using lubricant on the thermometer is altering the results of the temperature. the gel is cool and it doesnt allow the themometer to read accurately. i know this because the first 5 days we took her temp it was warm outside and the gel which is stored in the barn was warm and we got consistent temps, but then we had a below freezing spell(are still in it actually)for the next 4 days and her temp dropped 1 to 2 degrees. it worried me at first until yesterday, i warmed the gel and her temp came back up to normal for her and again this morning i did the same, so now i am back on the temp method of predicting foaling, but with warmed gel. anyway it just kills me and my daughter to think that she could go 2 or 3 more weeks since she's not showing the "signs" of foaling. dont get me wrong we want the bun to be done before it leaves the oven, we are just so anxious. have you had any experience with the temperature method?
Jos
Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 01:18 pm:
Not personally, as it's not considered to be a reliable method of predicting foaling in the horse, so I haven't bothered using it.
i tried expressing a drop or two of something from her teats and was very surprised that something actually came out. i tell you that i was surprised so that you will understand when i say i wasnt prepared for it and so i didnt get a really good look at it. i expressed it into my hand and as i rubbed it, it was very sticky and kinda yellowish but still transparent. what does this mean and do you agree with expressing a small amount of fluid to check it's consistancy? is it wasting colostrum to do this? anyway i hope this means she is on her way to delivering, but she still hasnt really bagged any.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 07:28 am:
If the fluid that you expressed is still clear - and perhaps a little "honey coloured" then she still has a little way to go before she is due to foal.
You will start to see regular milk-coloured fluid as you get closer to the foaling time, probably for as much as 2-3 weeks before (it varies with the mare), and the change that I have previously described occurs during the last 24 hours prior to foaling.
As you are not seeing colostrum at this stage there's no problem with expressing it. Nor, even when the colostrum is present, will expressing a couple of drops a day be a problem.
I didnt know if i needed to start a new conversation or not so here goes. We are still talking about the same mare. She still has not foaled and hasnt bagged. she is on day 351 and i was beginning to get concerned about if she has this foal and doesnt produce a bag. do you have any suggestions on what to do for colostrum, where i can get it or a substitute. any help would be appreciated. i know some people say that if a mare doesnt produce milk then the foal wasnt meant to make it but i really dont agree since there are a few things that can prevent milk production that the owner can prevent. Your opinion?
Jos
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2000 - 02:02 pm:
As I said above, some mares, and especially maiden mares, will not "bag up" prior to foaling, and yet still have plenty of milk once the foal arrives. The only regular exception to this would be mares that have been exposed to endophyte-infected fescue grass (or hay). Check with your veterinarian to find out if that is a problem in your area.
For substitute colostrum, your best bet is to contact a person who foals out a lot of mares, as often they have some frozen. Again, your veterinarian will probably be able to assist you in this. There are also IgG supplemental products ("Seramune" is one), that are available..... yet again through your veterinarian!
It is probable that this mare is doing just fine - but I notice you now believe you have (had) a "due date" - have you established when the breeding occurred for sure? If she is definitely at 351 days, then you should talk to your vet about the fescue, as delayed foaling is another symptom. Chances are though that it's not that, but just nature taking her time, but if there is a fescue problem in your area, you should probably be thinking about starting her on Domperidone.
i have checked with my vet. as i have said i have a back up vet for when my primary vet cant be reached. i guess my problem is that they disagree on a lot of things. if we use the domperidone to early will it hurt anything. there shouldnt be a fescue problem. she has been on a dry lot for 3 months and on bermuda hay during this time. she has gotten 2 or 3 mouthfuls of grass during this time during moving her from her paddock to the barn. i have found some of the synthetic colostrum from a local vet. the previous owner swears on the breeding date so all i have is his word. anyway, i appreciate your help and hope to have some good news soon.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 07:56 am:
With conditions such as you describe the mare as being maintained in for the last three months, there will be no chance of a problem with Fescue poisoning, so don't even entertain the use of Domperidone.
It's just a matter of sitting back and waiting! The foal will arrive when it's ready!
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 01:53 am:
I have a maiden mare, we do not have a breeding date on her, as she was pasture bred. She has had the obvious sunken-in flank/hip area for 12 days, and for the last 2 days her bag has become very hard/firm. I cannot get any liquid out of the nipples. She is enlongated in the vulva area, but not excessively swollen outward. She will be very slightly sweaty in the flank and around her front legs/elbow area about once every 2-3 days. Is the hard udder an idication of imminent foaling ? Seven days ago the udder was slightly firm on one side and the other side sort of flabby, now it is rock hard on both sides of the udder. What is causing the solid firmness in the udder? Is this an indication that the milk will be let down into the nipples soon?
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 03:44 am:
Hello Again, Just to update you, as of this morning at 6:00 AM the mare has her teats fully distended and I was able to squeeze out some liquid. On the first pull the liquid shot right out. So I assume we are getting very close to foaling. Do you think this will happen within 24-48 hours ? Thanks
Jos
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 09:22 am:
I guess you've pretty much figured out why the udder is getting hard! Yes, it's as a result of it's getting ready to produce milk.
The signs your mare is exhibiting can all be typically seen any time from the last few days up to 5 weeks before foaling. Unfortunately, none of the signs you have mentioned are indicative of a definitive time frame for that foaling!
There is an article on this site that explains a reliable method that indicates that foaling will occur within 24 hours, which you can view by clicking here that uses the change in the composition of the milk that occurs immediately before foaling.
JUST AN UPDATE. NO FOAL YET FOR THE 4 YEAR OLD PAINT MAIDEN MARE. SO I GUESS THE BREEDING DATE OF 11-7-99 WASNT EXACTLY CORRECT. STILL NO FOAL AND STILL NO SIGNS (BAGGING, SUNKEN REAR END, ETC) WILL KEEP YOU POSTED.
well this is me again with the 4 year old maiden paint mare. still no foal but i did find a bag this morning. not huge but definetely a bag. so maybe we are getting close. what other signs do i need to start watching for now that she has a bag.
Jos
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2000 - 03:51 am:
More signs close to term are an alteration of the abdominal area shape as the foal moves into position; relaxation of the vulva and tail; and a developing "jelly-like" feel to the muscles on each side of the root of the tail.
The above signs will probably be seen, but are not definitive of an exact foaling time; nor are they guaranteed to be seen. For the most reliable predictor of parturition I've found, click here.
Just an update on my 4 year old paint mare. Still no foal. I know I shouldnt worry since we dont know a breeding date but I am getting very concerned. She has had her bag for 6 1/2 weeks now. Should I have my vet come out and check her? What can they check on her anyway, I have been told that you cant tell much about the pregnancy of a horse. Is this true? Will Ultrasound help at all?
Jos
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 06:18 am:
If you have concerns, the veterinarian will be able to palpate at this stage and establish that there is indeed still a live and active foal in there. Other than that, there's not much to do but wait! Ultrasound is of no use this late in pregnancy.
Hang in there! (May be a Valentines Day foal? *LOL*)
i am trying to establish who the father is. she was on a farm with 3 studs. they were sold at different times between february and march. i am trying to use this to determine the father since the irresponsible owner didnt keep records or control of his studs, but at this point any one of the three could be the father. the previous owner stated that he witnessed a pasture breeding with one of the studs on Nov. 7 1999 but that breeding date does not coincide with her conceiving. if there wasnt a live and active foal wouldnt she have expelled it. i didnt think her body would hold onto a dead foal without becoming seriously ill? is this not true. could the inactivity of the foal have something to do with he going so long? i am just a little concerned with her having a bag for so long and then seemingly stopping.
karen
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 03:27 pm:
I wouldn't worry too much about her being bagged so long without foaling yet - I've had maiden mares bag for 8 or 9 weeks before foaling. Sometimes they just take a while, especially early in the year like this.
As far as the foal being alive - try this: when your mare is eating (so she's relatively still and not moving around) place your hand on her flank, by her stifle, and gently slide it down by her udder (being careful not to get kicked if your mare doesn't like to be touched here). Leave the palm of your hand firmly against her belly and if you can feel the foal moving (sometimes they move so forcefully you can almost hear it), that's pretty definitive evidence that it's alive and well. On the other hand, not feeling it move is not indicative of a problem either.
It would help, of course, if you had been given some firm dates of breeding, but at this point, it looks like you're just going to have to wait. I agree with Jos's recommendation though, to have the vet palpate the mare and give you a better idea of what's going on in there. Let us know what happens!
Jos
Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:44 am:
I wasn't really thinking of there being a dead foal in there, so much as there being no foal at all. As the only actually observed breeding was in November and as it is obvious that a foal is not going to be a product of that breeding, it was crossing my mind to contemplate a phantom pregnancy, which is where the mare does everything but actually produce a foal. Just another little something for you to worry about! J
Here's another "hocus-pocus" test you can do - especially at this time of the year! Take a handfull of snow or a large lump of ice and put it on the underside of the mare's belly in the region of her navel, or slightly tailwards of it (don't get kicked!!) Sometimes after a moment or two you will see the foal moving. It's not exactly scientific, nor is it conclusive, but if you do see something, then it can be an indication.
i have seen the foal move but it has been a while and the vet palpated in oct or nov and felt the foal and it was moving a lot then. i am just a worry wart i guess. i am having the vet out tomorrow to check for foal movement and postition. will keep you posted.
IT'S A BOY !!!!!! IT'S A BOY !!!!!! IT'S A BOY !!!!!! IT'S A BOY !!!!!! IT'S A BOY !!!!!! We found a beautiful tri-colored colt this morning at feeding time. Mom and baby are doing o.k. Mom has a little swelling in the vulva but no rip. He was a big boy and this is her first. The vet was even surprised this morning. She showed no real signs of immediate delivery last night but guess what. He is a paint and has a black mane and tail and is dark brown(maybe bay) with white markings. Now to figure out who the daddy is. Thanks for all of your help and patience. I will send a picture is you give me your email address.
Tina
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 01:16 pm:
CONGRADULATIONS AMY!!!!!!!!!!!I`ve been reading these post faithfully now for about 4 months and was wondering myself when your mare was gonna have that big bundle of joy.
Jos
Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 04:13 pm:
HOORAY!!
I'm very happy for you! Have fun with your new foal - and just like having a human baby, you'll find there are many little "special" moments to remember!
Hi, I'm writing to ask if you know where the Agrimall board has gone. I haven't been around for a while and I like to read your board and all the other repro boards this time of year and share my stories too! If you can help thank you. ```Sky
Hello, my husband and I bought a mare about two weeks ago and she seemed to be awful heavy (big bellied)but we just figured she was just a fat horse. One of our friends came to see her today and he said something about her being awful heavy and bagging up, so he told my husband to check to see if she had wax between her teats and sure enough she did. He says that she is pregnant. Should we have a vet to come check her out to see if she really is or does the waxing pretty much mean that there is no dought about it, she is pregnant, and does this mean that she is pretty close to term? We would be glad to hear your opinion.
Hello it is me agian. We went to the barn this morning and checked to see if we could express milk from her and you can, we did what you said to so about putting it on the black plastic and it was whitish but clear. Is it possible for her not to be pregnant even though she has the signs; waxing, milk, very big bellied. The woman we bought her from said that sometimes they will produce milk for no reason. Now we are confused.
Jos
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 01:43 pm:
There is a condition known as a "phantom pregnancy" in a mare, where she will display any or all the signs of pregnancy right up to delivery time (or any time prior to that) and then all of a sudden the signs disappear, so this is one possibility.
Because of the importance of being present when a mare foals however, you really should have a veterinarian come and examine the mare to determine if she truly is pregnant.
Is this something that happens regularly? While I was out there this morning I was feeling of her belly, back by her flank, and I could actully feal something rolling around on my hand. This did it on both sides of her, even just setting back and watching her you can see her belly move around and like it bothers her. It is so odd because the place where we bought her says that there wasn't ever a stud around her. We will call the vet tommorow to see what he has to say. Thanks.
Jos
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 04:41 pm:
While not that commonly seen this late in pregnancy(?) it certainly can and does happen. It is more often seen as a pseudopregnancy appearing between day 40 and day 150. Your veterinarian will be able to tell you for sure whether she is pregnant as he will palpate her rectally.
I have a mare due mid-March. I witnessed live cover on April 12th, so I'm thinking of a March 19th due date. Anyway, tonight I went outside to hay and water and she's acting awfully friendly toward me all of a sudden. While before she would just ignore me or glance my way, when I went to leave her, she came away from her hay and acted as if she would try to follow me. Has anyone else had an experience like this with a mare due to foal? Also, I live in CT and I was wondering if I should buy a foal blanket. It was starting to get warmer, but tonight it's down to 14 degrees. This foal will be her first and mine. We are finishing the stall (10' by 20')this week complete with wireless color surveillance camera and audio by the end of next week.
Please Help!! I also have a maiden mare. She is due to foal March 18, 2001. I have been keeping up on the shots and her worming.. She was ultasounded for the 3rd time in the late part of August.. (I just like to see the baby on screen) I moved her from a boarding facility to our own property 3 weeks ago and she seems to be doing good.. the problems are: 1. she does not look pregnant at all.. Only at certain agles. 2. The other maiden mare that was covered by the same stallion 3 weeks after my mare is completly HUGE! You can definetly tell she is pg.. I let my mare have free access to an outside paster (1/4) acre connected to the stall.. she has always been able to come in or out of the stall. THe other mare has been confined to the stall 24/7... Would this make a difference? Also the other mare is starting to bag and Lucy has no sign of bagging or getting soft above the tail.. I think I can feel the baby moving in Lucy but am not sure if it is her muscles.. Any tests I can do??
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 10:58 pm:
Hormonal changes that occur during pregnancy can result in temperament changes in mares - for better or worse!
Keeping the foal warm is important if it is as cold as it currently is, but probably of more importance is keeping it out of drafts.
You can use an old sweater or sweatshirt for the newborn foal, putting it's front legs through the arms. It may be necessary to tie a surcingle around it's middle to snug up the sweater. I have also made very successful (and cheap) foal blankets out of old woolen army blankets.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 11:03 pm:
Machell:
Mares (like women) carry foals in different positions, so there will be tremendous external variance from mare to mare. If you have any doubts, you can have your veterinarian palpate the mare rectally to determine the presence of a foal.
Machell
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 12:19 pm:
Well I am so glad to report I did have the vet come out to see my Lucy.. At first glance he said there was no way this mare of mine was pg.. I asked him to palpate her anyways.. I was totally crying at this time.. I have had a terrible time with the breeder and do not ever want to deal with him ever again!! and the vet agreed to palpate her but said I would be wasting my money... well when did got in there.. he was SHOCKED... there was a baby in there and it was still alive.. It is the birthing position and is realitively large for the size of my mares belly.. He said it is pretty rare to find a mare this far along carring so high.. He said that besides her starting to get on the lean side that she had awesome muscle tone and should foal in the next few weeks with no problem.. He suggested uping her feed and giving her blue grass mixed with alfafa. After he was done giving her her tet. shot and giving her one final look over.. I asked for a hug.. I was so excited..
in reply to Briana Walton; I have a mare that we *think* is in foal and she is 6 months along. I have noticed some behavioral changes with her. For example when I leave her tied up she gets very upset. She used to get upset before but she has started obsessing about it. She will whinny and prance and wont let it go until I come back.
I sure hope she is pregnant. I notice a change in the way she is carrying her weight, and she has gained weight(measured by weight measuring tape) and I've had to take the girth down 3 knotches but she doesn't look it. I have been jumping 3 feet with her until the past month. She is really fit and we give her a proper amount of feed. She is only 6 months now, and when we feel her belly we can feel movement, but Im not sure if this is muscle movement, because it happens when she is moving around, but could it be the baby moving as she moves? She is also displaying sort of unusual behaviour. This morning when she got her feed she ate half of it and kept spooking and racing down to the end of the paddock. the three other mares in the paddock who arn't pregnant were fine, they didn't scare at all. could this possibly be the baby moving and scaring her? I know at 6 months the baby begins to grow rapidly. She has had 1 foal before and wasn't like this, but the foal was still-born. Does this mean the foal is healthy? She also will kick if I take her into the main barn with other horses if I touch the left side near her flank. This is extremely unusual for her, I've never seen her kick in the almost 4 years I've owned her. But in the indoor arena where there arn't any horses she is fine.
Laine
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 09:20 pm:
I also forgot to say that she was bred in April and she had a ultrasound done in August and she wasn't pregnant and she was just coming into heat(the folicles were dropping) so she came into heat three days later and we bred her again. We went for another ultrasound 18 days later and yes, she was pregnant she had the black splotch and everything seemed to be fine. We put her on Regumate because the vet suggested it and said it would help her keep the baby and not abort it. He said come back in three week and we'll ultrasound her again and see how the baby is doing. After that three weeks he came out to the farm and did an ultrasound. this time her said no I dont think she is pregnant because it hasn't grown it is still this big (showed the size with his hands) but it had grown, the size he showed us first time was smaller than what he showed us the second time. I was at school at the time and didn't get to see it, and my mom had to hold her so we didn't actually get to see the screen and he said he was going to freeze the screen so we could see but he didn't. also my mom told me one of the people out there was watching and when she saw it she was like what? shes gotta be pregnant(you know, with facial expressions) also I've seen pictures of the embryo within 3 weeks of each other and they dont grow that big, and also at that stage isn't the foal just a tiny little thing and most of the slotch is the embryotic fluid? I wouldn't think the fluid would grow that big within 3 weeks. I also talked to a vet at the same place who worked with him and she said an I quote(lol) "Talk about a guy whos in way over his head" and she said he sees a ton of patients everday and he wouldn't know one from the other, so I dont know. I guess I just want to make sure she is pregnant, this is my hunter/jumper prospect! I hope to jump Grand Prix with this baby! lol. Please message me back with your comments!
jos
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2001 - 10:17 pm:
There are some quite significant changes within a three week period early in pregnancy. You can see some of the differences by clicking here.
If you have any doubts you can have a blood test done now for estrone sulphate, or a rectal palpation by an expert will also be able to determine her status for sure.
As it's important to be present at the birth in case the mare has problems, it is worth having her checked now to make sure.
Good luck.
Laine
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 12:36 am:
Oh yea, the cause of her last foal's death was the stallions genetics. The foal was a colt and the stallion had never produced a colt before. he had about 3 other colts that were still born that year but the one filly survived. the only colt that was not still born died within two days- he could only walk backwards and was unable to suckle. I also read somewhere that Arabians(thats what the stud was) and Pinto genes sometimes dont mix properly, Im not sure if that is true though.
Laine
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 12:43 am:
Yea, I've seen that site and the 18 day embryo was EXCACTLY what I saw. and on the second ultrasound, I did not see it and neither did my mom.
Oh yea, the last time she was pregnant the baby was born early too, and I know she aborted it because there was something wrong, one of the other mares bred to the same stallion did that too. The placenta wasn't even removed from the foal, if the foal was healthy, wouldn't you think she would of licked it off?
I have read the postings here for quite some time. I live in New Mexico and have a NASDHA registered Paint/Percheron Draft cross maiden mare who is supposed to foal any day now. I am very excited as this is my first foal. I have read lots of books, surfed the net, talked to experienced horse folks, and even studied up on some old wive's tales! She is due tomorrow plus or minus 30-35 days according to what I've read. I put shavings in her stall, am giving her plenty of free hay, and grooming her often. I am even pre-imprinting with my voice. I sing AMAZING GRACE to my mare when we are out on the trail as my calming mantra. A Pueblo Indian told me that they speak to the unborn foals at 9 months gestation to begin imprinting the voice of the owner to the foal. Sounds funny but I've sung AMAZING GRACE to her belly more times than I care to admit. Anyhow......we're waiting and hoping!
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 01:37 am:
Laine:
The amnion is not always removed from the foal even if the foal is healthy - that is why it is important to be present at the birth. Suffocation by the amnion is one of the leading causes of newborn's death.
There are a variety of causes for abortion, but one possibility I would pay great attention to if there are multiple abortions in a herd is Rhinopneumonitis, which the mare can (and should) be innoculated against at 5, 7 and 9 months of pregnancy. It is a virus, so multiple animals may abort if the herd is infected and not innoculated.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 01:40 am:
John - hope you have a filly - at least you have a name for her already!! J
We have done some imprinting, but are very cautious as we have seen many cases where "overly imprinted" foals lose respect for their humans and become dangerous when they get large. Singing to them probably will be OK though - as long as you have a nice singing voice other wise you may have a cranky foal born!! <LOL>
Hi! This is a bit late for me to be reading...I lost ,a beautiful ....really beautiful foal..a little filly ,just now...she had rolled under the fence when I found her yesterday morning and we got her and her mother in the barn stall at that time....BUT... I did NOT check to make sure she got the colostrum in time....by this morning she was so weak and we gave her a bottle that we had freshly milked from the mare (she was driping) and every two hours today as we watched the baby grow weaker and weaker...she died in my daughters arms about one hour ago.....Reg. Walking horse filly....beautiful and built to show....she is in no pain now i know , but I kick myself....PLEASE PLEASE...anyone who is raising horses....please be sure they get the first milk within 12 hours at least...it would have been 24hrs had she survived....and that is much to long...I am the only one to blame..I have been raising horses for years and knew better...she just seemed so strong and I assumed she was nursing....never assume!!!!
can anyone out there tell me what else besides pregnancy would make a mare bag up, if any thing, I have a qh 13 yo mare who gave birth last 3-24, 2000, but was not bred back this time, because of personal reasons. she is bagging up and milking milk, but is within 1/2 mile of stallion, please help
Can you tell me why it is recommended to give a foal an emima during imprinting?
Jos
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 10:08 pm:
Sara:
Hormonal imbalances may cause a non-pregnant mare to bag up. It is usually not a cause for concern unless there are other associated problems (mastitis etc.)
If you have any worries, have your vet take a look.
Good luck.
Jos
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 10:10 pm:
Nikki:
It's not so much a part of imprinting to give an enema, as it's being a preventative measure at that particular time (immediately post-foaling) against an impaction caused by meconium retention. The timing is somewhat coincidental.
What is free-choice hay. or Free-access hay. Does this mean there is always hay available for the horse to eat when it needs to?
Susan
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 03:35 am:
I have a question about the process that you recommend for possibly predicting impending partruition. How big of a drop or two? Where exactly are you looking to see the black color of the film case? I too have a maiden mare. She was bred June 28, 2000- AI. She was ultrasounded at 18 days and confirmed pregnant with twins. At 20 days, the smaller one was pinched off and ultrasound was repeated at 30 days, 45 days, and 60 days. All confirmed normal to high growth rates and only a single embryo. She was palpated again at 3 months and all is well. She has been regularly wormed and vaccinated as per pregnant mare schedule. She is a rather large mare, about 16 hands (1/2app 1/2tb) with a round barrel. She was bred to a 17.3 warmblood. At 5 months, she looked ready to foal. The baby has been very active- so active I had to stop riding at 5 months to avoid too much discomfort for the mare. Anyway, she is HUGE and began bagging up on April 29th. She has been waxing off and on since May 3rd. The sides of her vulva are soft and relaxed. Tonight, the top and dock seem soft too. Her vulva though looks normal sized. The baby is very active and she is very unconfortable. I have been staying up at night but am starting to get sick from it. I tried the milk drops tonight. The milk is very thick and white. It is a little runny on the sides. I cannot 'see' the black through the center of the drop, but can around the sides. Should there be ANY clear fluid if partruition is close? Also, should I leave the light on in the barn at night? The lights don't work too well in the fog and I am afraid they won't come on in the early morning. Thank you in advance for your help and advise.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 11:02 pm:
Yes - free choice hay is indeed hay that is always available for the mare when she chooses to eat it.
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 11:07 pm:
I mean literally a drop or two - as though you had a tap dripping, or a teardrop.
The most significant point is the change in the constituency of the milk. To be able to identify this one really needs to have been looking at it systematically over a few days at least. It may appear white, but you will still be able to see the black through the bottom, then all of a sudden there will be a significant change to complete opacity.
I would feel inclined to leave a low wattage light on all the time - maybe a 40 watt bulb (incandescent) and then you will be able to check the mare without disturbing her too much.
Good luck!
Kelly
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 03:38 pm:
There is no substitute for observation. Changes are only evident when you have something to compare it to.
Mares can bag or wax within hours. I check my mares every 2-3 hours depending on the signs that the mare is exhibiting.
Once a mare has had a foal, she tends to repeat the same behavior the next time. It helps to know your mare.
Try not disturb her, be subtle and quite. If you are too obvious, she may wait to be alone and foal in peace!
My maiden mare is 321 days today. She has shown all signs of really being ready for about 2 weeks now except for milk. Her bag is huge in all but the nipples. They are large, pointing straight down but not filled out. Her tail head is very flabby. I am watching her closely on a monitor. I did read your earlier posts about maidens not even waxing until foaling. I hear maiden mares usually foal soon and at this late date in the year this would also contribute to the early foal. My question is how early do maiden mares at this time of year usually go?
Kelly
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 03:02 am:
Every mare is unique. Maiden mares have no established pattern for you to follow. However, I have a mare that bags up like a jersey cow well before ( month or more ) she is ready to foal.
Watch for her teats to swell and fill down to the tip. My mare gets so big that I have to milk her out onto the nose of the foal so it can get one into its mouth! You will be surprised just how big your mare may get. This is actually not considered late in the year by nature's standards.
Keep watching, I bet your mares changes considerably in the next 10 days.
Lori (63.15.50.18)
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:03 pm:
Hello,
I am looking for some advice/opinions. I have a Percheron cross mare that has been bagged up for 6 weeks now. Her actual due date is June 10th. She has had 5 or 6 foals previously.
Over the past few weeks, everything was progressing rather quickly: Her bag got a lot larger and in the last 2 weeks or more I could express milk from them, her area around her tail has definately gotten a lot softer and "jiggles" alot when she moves, her vulva has gotten very relaxed, and one day this past weekend, I saw a little waxing, and even some dried milk on the inside of her leg (which I am almost certain I did not cause when I tested her milk). SHe was pretty miserable over this past weekend and preferred to stay away from the other horses when out during the day.
Also, I am using the test strips from the "Predict-a-Foal" kit, and my results were as follows: 17th PM - 1.5 squares 20th PM - 3.5-4 squares (Between 40% and 80% chance of foal in next 12 hours) 21st AM - 4.5 squares (about an 80-90%.....) 21st PM - 3.5 squares 22nd PM - 3.5 squares
And now, besides the squares "regressing", her bag is not as filled up (by this past weekend, it was ready to explode)and there has been a change in the formation of her udders. Also, her milk had gone from a clear and watery consistency to yellowish to grayish/white, but not completely thick, and now seems to be a little yelowish again. SHe also seems to be less miserble and acting pretty normal again.
So (finally), my question is: Does anyone have any opinions on what to expect from her. I do not want to rush the process, of course. I want the baby to be ready to come out, but the way things were going all the signs were there, and now it seems to be going backward. I haven't assessed her today yet, but I will be going out shortly to feed, etc. I would appreciate any advice or opinions based on previous experiences, knowledge, etc.
I am wondering if anyone knows how large a folicule needs to be before a mare is bred and how much the folicule grows in a day to predict the date of breeding better. Thanks. AH
What should you feed your mare while she is pregant and does this differ when baby is nursing??? THanks
Kelly (63.172.47.189)
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 06:29 pm:
Kristen- I feed my mares a 12% portien feed during gestation. The last 30 days, I gradually up it to a 14% and increase the feeding to 3 times a day. I also add a supplement like Clovite or Mare Plus to help the milk production. I make sure that a good quality coastal hay is available as well.
The 14% of my choice, is made by Acco feeds, it is the Superior line 14-8. It has double the fat content, and is very helpful while nursing a foal.
Barb (144.139.63.8)
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:03 pm:
I have a mare that was last served on 10th of Feb 2001. It is now Feb 18th 2002. She tested in foal by blood test at 70 days. She has not bagged up and looks in good condition but not huge bellied. I am wondering if she has aborted at some stage but she has not shown any signs of being in season since breeding. When should I give up waiting. She is now almost 5 weeks overdue.
TSQH (198.107.233.26)
Posted on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:10 pm:
I would have a vet palpate her. It is possible that she did abort. (However there is also the possibality that she is still preg.) If they abort later in their pregnancy they will not come back into heat until the next year.
Barb (144.139.63.139)
Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:38 am:
Have there been other cases where mares have gone this long overdue ? I've had one go 4 weeks, she also did not bag up but not 5.
TSQH (198.107.233.26)
Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 12:49 pm:
Depending on the individual mare she may not really be 5 weeks over due. I have a mare that always has carried her foals (she has had 5) from 357 to 365 days. So for her this would only be one week over due. Has this mare had foals before? If so how long did dhe carry them?
Barb (144.134.3.59)
Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:13 pm:
No she is a maiden mare. She is now 4 yrs old and this is her first foal (hopefully). It's February 20th now and that makes her 375 days.
TSQH (198.107.233.26)
Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 11:20 pm:
My guess is that she aborted sometime after her preg. test. Does her bag look ANY different than it usually does?
Kelly (63.172.47.201)
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 12:39 pm:
Barb- The blood test could have given you a false positive. She is over due, and there should be a distinct and recognizable belly. I have known maiden mare with long backs to hide a foal, but at this stage, it should be obvious. Your vet could tell you with a quick examination.
Barb (144.134.137.158)
Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 07:09 pm:
Why would she not showing signs of coming into season if she is not in foal? Is there something which would prevent her from cycling normally ? My other mares began in August-September without a problem. Breeding season is about over now in Australia but she has shown no signs all season. She is young and healthy, I don't get it. I've heard of a retained corpus luteum how long can this prevent normal cycling. I have a friend who told me she had a mare go 5 and a half weeks over. I suppose I'll just wait and see. We are in a remote area and I can get a vet out but it is expensive due to the travelling costs and it seems a bit silly as we are not going to rebreed her now until next season, its getting too late.
ELizabeth (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 10:14 am:
Barb if she did abort there couldbe several reasons she is not coming back into season. if she is still in foal it is a long shot.. but can you get her ultra sounded? IF she is till pregnant this will tell you right away.
My maiden mare had would have 2 viable folicles and would actually ovulate twice the second time right as she went out of season.. we finally had to put her on regumate to keep the pregnancy viable... because the first folicle would ovulate she was inseminated and would concieve but would lose the pregnancy with in 3 days to 2 weeks of conception...
She is now nearly 5 months and because of all the breeding problems will not foal til late Aug/Sept.
If I were you I would get the vet out esp if you can not find someone to ultra sound her.
Barb (144.138.242.110)
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:49 am:
What could be the reasons she's not coming back into season? You said there could be several.
Kelly (63.172.47.192)
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 01:07 pm:
Barb- have a look under the links site on the home page. There are many fine articles under the mare heading that can answer many of your questions. You will be fasinated.
susan (204.184.3.2)
Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 04:12 pm:
I have a mare that was ultrasounded bred at 18 days. She is due the end of March. She began to bag up a few days ago, but did not look bred to me, so I had my vet palpate her. He said she is not in foal, but she has never come into heat since she was bred, and every day her bag is bigger. Could he be mistaken? He assured me that he could do another ultrasound, but it would just be a picture of an empty uterus! Has anyone seen anything like this before?
Elizabeth Hardy (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 05:44 pm:
Susan Have blood tested for pregnancy... foal maybe too large to show up properly on Ultrasounf and maybe vet is not technically profiecent at paplpation....
maybe get a second vet out to examine her ..for a second opinion..
Hi all, I took a job training yearlings at an arabian ranch in Dec. 2001. It is now march and ALL of the mares that had foals last year are acting like they are going to foal any day now. They were not bred acording to the woman who was here before me. There are 4 total and all of them are bagging up, acting diffrently and are all but one looking like they are in foal. I don't know what I'm looking for to Palp them and my boss has run into money troubles and can't really afford a vet. What should I do??? Should I just go looking around in there? Should I wait and hold my breath? I'm basicly training for free too so I can't get the vet my self either. They are all right on schedual for having been bred in the foal heat. Is there any thing substantial in what the other woman says about mares having milkable fliud in the udder if they are in a strong heat? If so, all four at once??????? that seems strange to me. The stallion is on premis, so I think there is apossibility that they were accidentaly bred but my boss and the lady before me both say there wasn't any time he could have gotten to them. Any information you could give me would be great.
Jos (63.186.10.9)
Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:02 am:
I would not encourage you to "go looking around in there".... there are significant risks associated with rectal palpation, which could in the worst case scenario result in the death of the mare.
Nor would I suggest that holding your breath is a viable option.... it is essential that there be someone present at the foaling and if you don't really know if these mares are in foal or not, then you are going to have a lot of sleepless nights attempting it....
I would suggest that it would be a sensible plan for these mares to be palpated by a vet. If your employer cannot afford the services of a vet, then they should probably be seriously considering the viability of keeping these mares - what is going to happen if an animal gets sick, quite outside the possibilty of them being pregnant (or not)?
I'm afraid I can't really give you any advice on how you get around your problem though...
I thank you for the answer, I wasn't really looking foreward to trying to find out myself! I have a gentleman coming over today to bump them. He's been dealing with horses for a long time and though it's not a sure fire method it can at least give me some idea of what's to be expected. I have a feeling I may as well take up residence in the barn for now! I am still wondering if it's possible for them to be all having fluid I can milk out if they are just in heat,like I've been told. I somehow can't believe that these mares would all have it at the same time! Do you know any more about this? Has any one ever heard this, too? This is a new one on me, did I miss this piece of information in my readings? I have read almost every book on the subject since i was ten, and I have never come across anything like this. If it is a possibility, then someone ought to have included it in a book somewhere! Any how, thanks for your time, becca
Tanja (209.245.99.95)
Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 10:39 pm:
I don't have an answer but a similar problem. I aquired a mare in November who was not supossed to be pregnant. She is not bagged up but milk is flowing from her teats. She does have swelling in front of the udders. The milk is a watery yellow/white non sticky or slimy consitency. She is also round in the belly, this roundness has moved back into her flanks. No one seems to be able to answer the question of how a non pregnant mare can produce milk? Is this possible? This horse is a maiden mare, 7 years old and striaght egyptian arabian. I belive this horse is most likely pregnant, but I think its odd no one can answer the milk question.
I came to this web sight looking for answers - I got 'em just not exactly what I was looking for. Can I correctly assume that no one can tell for sure if a mare is pregnant until the foal is on the ground? Like many of the stories above I have a maiden mare (draft variety)who was field covered between July 01 - Aug 01 no exact record. She was in Canada, due to some problems she wasn't returned until Nov. We didn't think she was bred until about a month ago when she began going thru water like crazy and DEMANDING more food. Again no outward physical signs but we thought maybe... Brought the vet round - she was here yesterday. From the external exam the vet felt the mare was in foal however the conclusion after palpation was MAYBE? Vet said "she may have dropped to low" (What does that mean?). Anyway, she'll be back in a month to check again. Is ther anything a little more definitve???????
Jos (64.41.48.142)
Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 11:00 pm:
Have a blood assay for estrone sulphate performed. It is secreted by the feto-placental unit, so the presence of elevated levels is indicative of pregnancy.
The mare must be 75 days or so post breeding ovulation in order for the levels to be sufficient for assay.
I don't know if this will really help. My friend's mare always made milk in the fall eventhough she was never bred. The first time it happened my friend had only had the mare for a few months and thought maybe there was something the previos owners forgot to tell her. When the vet checked the mare, he said it was just hormones. A couple of years ago I also experianced a false pregnacy with my mare. She made milk right when she would have been foaling if she had still been pregnant.
Update, my mare is not pregnant! Whew! But the vet can not explaine the milk she reffered to it as serum? Strange but true apparently some mares always produce serum... What serum is exactly I don't know. Hope someone can shed light on this subject.
HI I HAVE A THREE YEAR OLD MARE SHE WILL BE 4 IN 3 MONTHS. SHE IS 340 DAYS BRED HER BELLY HAS DROPPED, HER TAILBONE AREA AND SIDES ARE SOFTING BUT HER VULVA ITSELF IS JUST A LITTLE LOOSER. SHE HAS BEEN BAGGING FOR ABOUT 4 WEEKS HER NIPPLES ARE VERY LARGE BUT HER BAG IS NOT FULL OR TIGHT YOU CAN NOT EXPELL ANY FLUIDS. IS THERE MUCH CHANCE SHE WOULD FOAL WITHOUT HER BAG FILLING MORE? SHE IS A MAIDEN MARE
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