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Message |
    
Renae Brumley
Neonate
Username: Renaecd
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 03:12 pm: | 
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What should the bran mash consist of that is supposed to be fed post-foaling? Also, I have heard about getting a tetanus shot for the foal. Where can I find that? Local feed store?
A woman at my feed store recommended feeding a small amount of calf manna to mom and baby when the foal starts to play with/eat grain. Anyone heard of this?
Thanks! |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 263
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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Renae,
Calf mana is a good overall suppliment. Depending on the quality of grain your feeding would depend on wether you need it or not. Good for making shiney coats and animals under stress.You only need a small amount of it daily, and be carefull as it molds easley. Use to feed alot of it as a suppliment to rabbits and cattle as well.
I have heard alot about the bran mash. Never had to use a "bran mash" but we have alot of bran in our feed along with dry molassas which keeps the horses from becoming constipated. |
Renae Brumley
Neonate
Username: Renaecd
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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Thanks Kim!
Anyone else know anything about the "bran mash" ad what all it should be made of? When do we give it to her? After the foal is nursing and they've bonded?
Also, what are the chances that I will have to give the foal an enema? I have two Fleet enemas ready to go, but how often do people actually have to do that? How long after birth should it be done if I don't see any meconium?
Thanks!
(Message edited by RenaeCD on February 02, 2006) |
Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints
Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Hi Renae,
We usually add a scoop of feed and a scoop of bran mash and a tablespoon of salt (household), then add hot water and mix good. (make sure it is soaking it up well and then we add a little cool water just enough to make it sloppy and warm. some people put apple juive in instead of the cool water. give them a better taste.
Our horses love it. Also wait until the mare has passed her placenta before you feed her any mash. let her concentrate on that first. During the winter months we bran mash all of our horses at least once a week. It makes sure they keep hydrated when the water is really cool and they don't drink as much.. This helps tremendously with avoiding colic...
Just let the foal try to have a bowel movement on its own. It may take a couple of hours, it may take a few minutes. If you have not seen a bowel movement within two hours (after baby is up and nursing) I would give an enema. (you need two people to do this safely). Boys usually have a harder time than girls for some reason.
Then after that if he or she is still having a problem another in about another 2 hours. Then you will have the vet out after 12 hours to make sure baby has had enough colostrum. (very important!)
Dont know about calf manna as we don't feed it. If you feed a good feed and worm and vaccinate and have a salt block, you shouldn't need it unless the mother is loosing a bunch of weight while nursing. Then you would have to seperate the moms feed from babies because the baby will eat with mom and gain too much weight for the joints.
Sorry it is sooo long. hope it helps.. |
Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris
Post Number: 95
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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Beverly- I have a question and this looked like a logical location...I have a mare 280 days (give or take), she is very large abdominally (she is a 15h arab bred to a 15.3 qh). She has been on bran mash with alfalfa pellets in it, sweet feed and a mineral/fat pellet as well as a youth feed(mare and foal), she is now sifting through her grain and eating only the grain and alfalfa, she leaves the bran and youth pellets, I have tried mashing it all together,she wont eat anything then. The reason we started her on bran was because the vet reccomended it because she seemed to be having some intestinal upsets,since she started the bran she has not, but now she wont eat it. My question is what can i so to entice her to eat it? can i give her more alfalfa pellets in place of it? to keep her bowels looser and moving? (she is currently on a grass hay with very little alfalfa).
help... |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 265
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 02:41 pm: |
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Kris,
sorry I know you addressed Beverly but I had to answer too, 
be careful how much alfalfa pellets you give, you can raise the protien level to high and have problems with founder. Just word of caution.
Actually try adding the bran to your sweet feed mix and adding some extra wet molassas to hold it together while in a mixer at the feed mill. Also if you are having colic or constipation problems you can add dry molassas which draws mosture into the gut and helps in this area. This is what our vets had us due when we had a constipation problem arise, so we modified our feed receipt from then on. A feed dealer, feed rep at a feed mill should be able to help. Then there is no mixing at home its all in the feed mix already.
Good luck |
Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 04:34 pm: |
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Hi Kris,
We always use bran mash with water... I know everyone likes to do it differently, but just my opinion..if you need them to drink more then you need to add water. My horses love it super sloppy! when i feed it ....I give one scoop of grain and 1 scoop of bran with a tablespoon of salt and then pour about a half of gallon of HOT water and then mix it and then pour a little cool to it... When i am through it is half way up the 5 gallon bucket and they lick their bowls when they are through. they don't leave even one piece of bran in the dish. LOL. It is our stallions favorite dish of the week. LOL.
I don't add anything else to it.. even our babies eat it. Of course not as sloppy as the older ones.
I would definetely add water to it and leave the alfalfa out of it... You do need to watch the protein.
If you need more help i will try to help.. Let me know.. |
Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints
Post Number: 90
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:08 pm: |
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http://community.webshots.com/photo/2646047960060158556vTwExD
Here is a picture of my husbands horse after she ate the bran... See how it is all the way up her face. she loves it, but look out after she gets through they love to wipe their face on ya! LOL..
hope it helps.. |
Kathee McGuire
Yearling
Username: Katheekj
Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:21 pm: |
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Beverly - that is too cute! |
Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints
Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:24 pm: |
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Thanks! If you look on the side it shows next or prev... that is all of our horses.. some might not be on there... |
Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 05:52 pm: |
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kim and Kathee- Thank you for your input!!!
I have tried the bran wet, soggy and soupy no luck! I have tried adding high enery fat (carmel butterschotch flavor) no luck, I guess i will have to try molasses.
My grain has dry molasses in it, she wont eat that either, she siftes through it adn leaves that and the vit/minerals from the grain in her bowl with the bran,...she is very good with her lips!!!
I am just ready for her to be done too! shes getting to picky...stinker!
i guess i would have never thought of the founder part...duh!!! but she is only getting 2 cups 2x daily...not pounds...just enought to entice her!
I will have to try the salt too! Do you use iodized? or plain?
thanks again guys you are great!!! |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 267
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 06:09 pm: |
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Kris, I would try increasing the wet molasses in your grain so that the feed is a bit wetter to bind everything together.The dryer the grain, the more the horses leave behind. The wet molaasses also helps hold down any dust from the grain. OUr horses too will sift through it sometimes, some more than others, but normally get what they need. As for the salt you probabally have it in your feed too, in the salt mineral combo. You can also add some fiber to her diet with apples and carrots. Maybe a few pounds of apples a week would do her just as well if she is not comsuming the bran and is going to fight it. And it sounds as if she is getting only a small portion of grain for the bran . (I have also heard others use extra oil like a canola oil on their grain to top dress it --but never have done it myself--which may help bind the bran together with the grain)
Also some mills have a extruder for pellets. The could possible make the grain into pellets so that she would have to consume it ! Then she may decide not to eat it at all !! LOL... that would be my luck
Good luck! |
Joanna
Yearling
Username: Joanna
Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 08:25 pm: |
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One of my mares cannot stand the taste of mollases, she refuses to eat any thing that even smells like the stuff.
So whenever my vet says I need to put mollasses in anything, I substitute it with sugarfree apple sauce. It helps her to not be constipated just like mollasses would, and she really prefers the taste of anything apple to mollasses.
Hope this helps.
Joanna |
Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris
Post Number: 98
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
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thanks for the tips, I will try all these "recipes" until i find one that she will actually eat her meals!!!
she is not thin by any means so i am not worried about weight loss, howver i just worry about hte in-utero not getting enough nutrients! that is the on that needs the nourishment, Tsaharah is plenty fat!!!
well thank you again, i think i may try hte apples and carrots, finely chopped or grated into the wet ran, ...we'll see... |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 271
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Kris, the baby won't suffer any if mom if plenty plump ! Just as in a human the baby takes from mom and then mom gets whats left over. |
Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris
Post Number: 100
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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THAT IS GOOD TO KNOW...MAYBE I SHOULD JUST LET HER BE PICKY INSTEAD OF SPOILING HER RIGHT NOW...
WELL SEE, I WILL TRY THE APPLES OR CARROTS, IF SHE IS STILL PICKING I WILL JUST FEEDHER WHAT I KNOW SHE WILL EAT AND LET IT BE AT THAT.
THANKS! |
Emma
Breeding Stock
Username: Emma
Post Number: 141
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 03:52 pm: |
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Kris, I just wanted to point out that her being fat won't affect either her or the baby now but when it comes to her delivering, that is another story. Fat mare tire easy, so when it comes down to the hard work of pushing baby out it all just becomes to much and they can just give up half way through foaling! Please for every one sake make sure you slim her off coming up to the birth, it is safer for every one. |
Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris
Post Number: 101
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 06:46 am: |
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emma- she is not totally obese, but she defineately doesnt have ribs showing either!
other than cutting her food way back it will be hard to slim her down because of where i live! we are currently under a pretty good snow cover, but the worst part is the ice under the snow from the melting and refreezing of the foot of snow we just lost. also because of our frigid temps! no longer are we having a mild winter...it is currently 7 degrees (F)...and expected to drop all week to the point that saturdays high is forcasted to be 7 and the low 15 degrees (F) below ZERO!!! not the most pleasant for taking a horse for a walk! on warmer days i have taken her out and walked her, however it will be at least 2 more weeks before i will again..depends on our wonderful weather!
i will also begin to cut back on her food...she ought to love that! |
Jenn Van Horsen
Neonate
Username: Jennuwynn
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
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I know my one girl decided she didn't like something in her wet mix, and she'd pick every single bit out, or not eat at all! I figured she must know something I don't, and just because I think she should be eating something doesn't mean I am right - I stopped putting the thing in she didnt' like, and kept on soaking the whole rest of the mess of stuff she was eating - I mean, unless it is a med that she needs ... why not just cut out what she doesn't like and feed the rest?
I have one that HATES bran. Bran is for constipated humans, not spoilt horse mares! No way will she eat it - so instead of soaking it for her, I soak her regular pellets, and mix in some timothy hay cubes as well, buy does she pile into that, makes me feel good she is getting the water, and the nutrients, but she is wanting to eat it and I don't have to add sugar or molasses which I dont' agree they should have, into it.
One rescue I had went off her hay cube mush once she got to a certian weight, she was sick of that and wanted what the others were getting, so she got that instead and loves it - hard to underfeed a horse with today's products, but easy to overfeed I think.
Just adjust and soak what she does want, as long as she is getting the nutrients (and execise and free choice hay and water most importantly) she will be fine!
Good Luck!
Jenn |
Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris
Post Number: 118
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 02:38 pm: |
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Jenn- thank you! I have tried molasses, and salt and apples, still no luck, i just stopped feeding the bran, one day here or there i throw some in and she will eat it, but she is eating better as long as i leave her outside in her pen,she will not eat locked in the barn...nothing at all! so she eats outside then i put her in , she paces and screams the whole time...i just hope she adjusts in the next 3 to 7 weeks! |
Ulrike Paulischta
Neonate
Username: Lindros
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 07:53 pm: |
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PEOPLE: bran is not for long term use! The main reason we make a 'bran mash' is to get as much water and oil into a horse (pre and post foaling, if a horse suffers form an impaction colic etc) to soften the manure. Bran has an inverted calcium to phosphorus ratio! Beetpulp is much higher in fiber than bran. |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 09:50 am: |
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used in the correct ratios , it can be used long term in a feed mix |
Jenn Van Horsen
Neonate
Username: Jennuwynn
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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Oh - sounds like it is more of a 'where' she doesn't like to eat rather then a 'what' she doesn't like to eat!
When I have a broodmare, especially a new rescue, or one I have problems with, I don't worry about what I think is best for her in terms of when she wants to live, who with, etc - I am more concerned about her being happy and not stressed out.
Is she used to being alone? Is she going out and screaming because she can't see her friends and is separated?
I had one one year at a friend's place, we tried everything to make her happy inside, it was too cold out to be foaling, but that mare would not settle indoors and was doing herself damage trying to get out to be with friends outside.
We finally gave up trying to make ourselves feel better about where she would live, and made a nice space for her out where she was comfy - as far as foaling outside? Oh yeah, she did and she did it on the copious amounts of starw we put out for her, she did have a little run-in shed we banged up instead of a stall IN the barn, and we hung a nice heat lamp out for her, that really made a difference for her, by her foaling time she was rtelaxed, eating well and the faoling was easy - also she was better with us because I think then she wasn't worried we were going to be lockingher in somewhere she didn't want to be - the next year, she foaled out inside, with her friends there, a totally different horse by then.
Just make the best judgement call you can if it is a behavioural issue, or if it is truly the food. I am not a hughe bran fan either, there were studies to say sometimes more 'damage' was done by giving it in the huge quantites we do just once in awhile, rather than having it in small doses constantly, also other studies say it is long-term damaging ... I tend to go with the beetpulp and timothy hay cubes soaked instead, with anything else I want them to have thrown in - I also learned not to give chunks of apples or carrots in the mush, sometimes a slurper can slurp up a chunk and choke! Anything I give my guys now is consistent in texture - they can have their chunks first, then their mush or the opposite, but not both at the same time in the same bucket!
Good Luck!
Jenn |
Lindros
Neonate
Username: Lindros
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 06:01 pm: |
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kim k: what would you mix the bran with to even out the inverted ratio? |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 291
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 09:28 pm: |
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You should be feeding a timothy/orchard grass hay to the horse. This hay cantains the caliucum the horse needs.. There are to many people trying to shove alalfa hay into their horse. As well, in your grain you should have a proper level of linseed and a good mineral suppliment (most contain calcuim) that will help balance the bran. Bran is high in your omega 6 which a horse can not produce and must be added to their diet--just as humans, we can't make omega 6s in our body, we must supplement it. It will aid in good hair/nail growth. You can feed a balance of a mixture and not deplete your horses calicum. NO, by no means should you top dress your sweet feed from the local store with alot of bran, this would not be a balance ratio. By feeding a small amount of bran on a daily basis with the products I have listed and probabally a few others ?? like a yeast trace pack ?? with the help of your feed rep at a feed mill, you can be successful at feeding bran and get the results that you need. Again by all means don't dump a ton on top of a premix sweet feed or feed a bran mash daily with out making sure you have the other nutriants in place. We have feed bran for over 20 years and never had a problem, it helps with normal bowl movements, hair/nail growth and is a good source of fiber... that is why it seems as if the horses bm is so large. Small amounts on a daily basis is good. Never had we had trouble with a mare prior to or after foaling.
You need a all around good mix of grains and supplements to work well together. Each needs another to work just the way it should, never should you load up on one type of feed. You will lack someplace else |
Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris
Post Number: 126
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 04:49 pm: |
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Jenn Van Horsen- No she is not used to being alone or locked in a stall, she has not been in a stall for 10 years! and that was only 1 night while she foaled the last time. I have decided to keep her outside and am woorking on setting her up a pen with panels (our ground is frozen solid a foot down so i cant put in fence posts) and closing off her lean to so she has a barn and will bed her on about a foot or more of straw on top of the existing manure ( i have heard that makes heat of its own from decomposition) I will put up a heat lamp when she gets close, or when she foals. The area is well lit if I want it to be(flood lights). The final decision was when she ran for 8 hours, sweated herself up, ate and drank nothing, and yelled the whole time. I just pray the weather will be warm when she decides to foal! and that she will give me the same signs the last two times he foaled ( i knew she would foal that night and was prepared)
BTW-she doesnt eat the bran outside either, only on e and awhile, so i just throw it into her mash once a week or so, if she eats it great, if not the chickens enjoy it!
so keepin the big girl happy is the plan... |
