| Author |
Message |
    
Anonymous
Posted From: 199.89.170.92
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 02:04 pm: | 
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My mare was checked 4 times via ultrasound in early pregnancy. She is now a little over 8 months along and we have just discovered that she has twins.
While obviously this is not ideal and should have been caught early what do you do when you get to this stage? She has no signs of impending abortion and as of now both babies are alive (found 2 heartbeats).
She is a fairly small mare and is huge Already.
Is there anything we can do to try and promote a positive outcome? |
Christie Miller
Nursing Foal
Username: Gallamist
Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 02:50 pm: |
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I'm sure someone here will have some gread advise for you..I myself have never experienced twins but an online friend of mine is going through it right now with one of her mares..
Here's a link to a forum http://whoahorse.com/forum/
And here's a direct link to the thread about her mare. http://whoahorse.com/forum/index.php?topic=411.0
Sorry mods..if the links are not allowed please feel free to delete them. 
Good luck with your mare and hope all turns out well for everyone! |
Gynna Meiller
Weanling
Username: Jw_kings_excalibur
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 07:19 pm: |
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I have never experienced twins either but I would make sure you have stuff handy at foaling time to help nurse foals and have the vet on hand as well. While I have heard horror stories about twins I have also heard of great things as well. They will be small and even if a live birth some may not make it. There is a mare about 15 miles away from me that has twins every year for the last 3 years and handles it all like nothing is wrong.
I would suggest checking out a bunch of stuff online about twins and nursing an orphan foal. Maybe Jos will have some great advice since he is a repo specialist or give you soem links to go too..He is very knowledgable and knows a great many folks who should be able to help you and your horse(s). Keep us posted!
(Message edited by Jw_kings_excalibur on December 28, 2005) |
Board Admin
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10050
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 08:19 pm: |
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We have no problem with the posting of links that are relevant to the topic - gratuitous advertising links of non-relevant material is what sends us over the edge...!
Having said that, the above links either require a log in (the first) or are showing an error (the second) which kinda makes them redudant... If you'd like to repost the correct link which is not restricted, that would be good!!! |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10386
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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There really isn't much you can do during the pregnancy to aid a possible positive outcome. Do be aware that most twin pregnancies are lost in the last trimester because that is when the most fetal growth occurs (60% in the last 3 months), and that results in too much of a placental "draw" (i.e. the placenta cannot provide enough nutrition because of insufficient uterine surface area for two placentae to be efficient) and one or both of the foals then become compromised and abortion occurs. Sorry to be so negative, but I wouldn't want to give you an impression that it is all a bed of roses because everything is OK at the moment... 
As was noted above, it is essential that you monitor the mare closely and be there at the foaling - although many foalings of twins can go without problems, when a problem is encountered, it can be major...
Good luck!!! |
Christie Miller
Nursing Foal
Username: Gallamist
Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 01:18 am: |
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Ooops sorry...hahah
The link should work http://whoahorse.com/forum/index.php
You do need to register tho to post.
(Message edited by Gallamist on December 29, 2005) |
Anonymous
Posted From: 199.89.170.92
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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Thanks Jos...
I do know that this will more than likely go wrong and that I'll probably loose the babies, my main concern is really for the mare.
Some people have mentioned terminating the pregnancy would be an option. One vet told me this was a rather complicated and risky procedure and that I shouldn't even consider it, another says we should go ahead. Does anyone have any experience with this?
I thought I had a great vet to begin with, but seeing as he missed twins on THREE ultrasounds before 60 days and then again at 5 months (although I understand at that points its hard to tell) I am feeling less encouraged. |
Tammy Snell
Weanling
Username: Qcfarm
Post Number: 32
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:11 pm: |
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Anonymous-
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but maybe I can help as I just went through the same thing. My mare at 8.5 months aborted twins. We did many u/s and saw the twins they were side by side (not as easy to pinch off) My vet was sure that the smaller one would be starved out as is was much smaller. We did many more u/s and could not find the smaller one, thus vet was positive that it was gone, mummfied. Like I said 8.5 months later, he was wrong. My mare went through labor just fine delivered both and seemed to be ok. Hours later she was in the hospital with a piece of placenta that was still attached to the uterine wall, now I was scared as hell that I would loose her. 4 days later and many vet bills she was ok.
So I guess I would say keep a close eye on her, my mare went from showing signs of bagging and producing milk within 1 week the abortion happened.
What I learned from all this is to find a repro specialist that has lots of experience and the equipment to diagnosis what ever. My vet who I have had for more than 30 yrs is just a vet. I would trust him with my life, I dont blame him, I blame myself for not seaking a good repro vet!!
Keep us posted on how she is doing!
Tammy |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10387
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
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Unfortunately, the risks with terminating the pregnancy are essentially the same as with the mare aborting at this point, so it is generally not an option.
One point to consider - if the mare has a Caslick's procedure in, you should remove it at the least sign of mammary development, and may want to remove it in any case (the argument to be made against it is if she does have bad reproductive conformation, which presumably if she has a Caslick's procedure placed she does, then not removing it might prevent pregnancy loss from other causes such as an ascending placentitis condition... catch-22... |
Anonymous
Posted From: 199.89.170.92
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 02:30 pm: |
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She doesn't have a caslicks in place so at least that is one less thing to worry about.
I guess the only thing to do is to watch and hope for the best...  |
Christie Miller
Nursing Foal
Username: Gallamist
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 04:36 pm: |
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What excatly is the Caslicks and what's its purpose? |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10396
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:49 pm: |
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Take a look at the article on vulval conformation on this site. |
Anonymous
Posted From: 211.29.211.105
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 01:48 am: |
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Would a simple follicle test prior to breeding prevent all these twins? Make sure your mare has a nice single ovulation. If you can't get mare scanned again 15-18days or so then you wouldn't have to worry about missing twins, pinching them off etc. I heard that ovum splitting as in people causing identical twins is VERY rare in horses? Is this Correct? |
E Watkins
Weanling
Username: Evie
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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Does anyone know if twinning is more common in any particular breed of horses? or if any breed is less prone to it? ( I'm still worried about a sorrel maiden mare we have that is in foal ) I've been told she's carrying just one, but she's really good sized for being a first timer. Is it possible to miss a second foal when they palpate? |
Tammy Snell
Weanling
Username: Qcfarm
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Yes most definately in TB's I think it is about 80% chance of twinning, unless my vet books are wrong? |
Kim Winter
Breeding Stock
Username: Clafairy
Post Number: 108
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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I have heard many times from many sources that the TB is more prone to twinning, only because I was breeding my TB did I look at this as I had been told already by her previous owner - She had had to have one twin pinched when bred with her 8 years ago. Apart from that I am afraid I cant help - Hopefully someone else can be more useful to you! |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10422
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 01:22 pm: |
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Anonymous: Not breeding on a double follicle would significantly reduce your pregnancy rates, as mares will frequently have double follicles present, but have only one ovulate. It is impossible to predict if that second follicle will ovulate or regress, so one would miss a huge number of breeding opportunities.
If one has access to ultrasound for a follicular check at the time of breeding, there is no reason for not having the mare checked for twins after breeding! |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10423
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 01:27 pm: |
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Twinning rates are estimated to be 25-30% in Thoroughbreds and Draught horses. Not sure what vet books you're reading!!!
There is a variation within all breeds, with mares up to about 60 days post-foaling having the lowest incidence of twinning, and barren mares the highest - this is nature trying to stack the odds in favour of establishing a pregnancy in the various categories of mare, as it's recognising that a barren mare has a lower chance of getting pregnant than does a mare that's recently foaled, thereby proving her fertility. |
E Watkins
Weanling
Username: Evie
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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We raise Quarter Horses and I didn't think they are too prone to twinning. I was just concerned about the filly we'd discussed on the other message board Jos. We always have our mares sonogrammed after breeding but as you've also read, there has been some inaccuracy in the sonograms we've had done. We've used at least 3 vets in the area and all have made errors in diagnosing pregnancies at various times. (what I'm assuming is if they can miss one pregnancy, they could miss two as well) I think I'm about to give up breeding my mares, it's too much stress and worry..lol. |
jenny edwards
Neonate
Username: Jen100
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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I have recently had a friend experince a twin birth and she unfortunately lost one foal. The other is doing fine even though he appeared weaker initially. She gave him more colostrum-it is possible the filly didnt recieve enough colostrum post birth. Be prepared to put in a lot of time, take holidays if possible and enlist the help of friend. good luck |
Anonymous
Posted From: 205.250.235.216
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:30 am: |
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A friend's mare had twins last year after carrying them to term (337 days). One was 40lbs and the other 20lbs. They only had peach fuzz for hair and not real coat. So even if she does make it to term they still may not be healthy and fully formed.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you and wish you the best of luck and hope your mare delivers just fine. |
