Hi Everyone, I am posting for a friend of mine who is having major trouble. Her maiden mare foaled last night at 9:30pm (354 days); everything went smoothly with the delivery and the baby. The baby was up and nursing on everything, finally found mom but mom was not liking the nursing and didn't tolerate it for more then a few sucks (if the baby got there at all-nobody can say "for sure" the baby was on the udder). Afterbirth was still attached and trailing to the floor. The foals cord was still not treated and the afterbirth was not tied up. They attempted to go into the stall calmly and slowly, with and without treats or grain, each time the mare would lunge and attack at whoever came near. 3 people who the mare knows well attempted it. She didn't let anybody within 2ft of the stall. At about midnight, they went into the house to give the mare time alone (they didn't want her too worked up) and they called the vet. The vet came out and promptly decided he was not going to attempt to enter the stall either. The afterbirth was still attached (this was approx. 12:30 am and nobody was sure if the baby had nursed yet). The vet left them some sedative and banamine and basically told them "good luck". I called my friend this morning and she says nothing has changed and they are still not able to get into the stall. She gave her the banamine as a dressing on her grain and she ate it. I'm not clear if she still has the placenta attached. The owner is at a loss and is hoping someone has a tranquilizer gun, because she honestly thinks that's the only way someone will get in there. She is calling her regular vet as I type this, so hopefully the vet will come up with more then "good luck" and help her. I pray the placenta is not still attached at this point, but I really don't know. I told her I would post here to see if anybody had any ideas about how to get into the stall so they can treat the mare and foal and get everything back on track. Any suggestions? This mare has always been aggressive and mean, but manageable.
horselady Posted From: 67.70.68.237
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:18 pm:
What a nightmare! Let us know what happens. I hope the little foal is ok. It would be great if the vet could get a shot into the mare if her stall is accessible to the left or right sides. Maybe then they would be able to sedate her enough to treat the foal and the mare and get the foal sucking.
twhgait Posted From: 69.23.217.156
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:24 pm:
THANKS horselady!!! It is a nightmare. I actually offered her my services and I'm willing to distract the mare while she gets her in the butt with the tranquilizer! I don't know what else to do and I feel like time is slipping away. I haven't heard back from her yet but I would assume her regular vet is out there right now. If anything this has taught me that my maiden will be wearing a halter when she delivers so that I can be sure to have something to grab onto "just in case". Fortunately, I don't think being like this is in my mare's personality but I guess you never know when they have a newborn..
horselady Posted From: 67.70.68.237
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 01:29 pm:
I was also told by the foaling facility that my mare will be wearing a halter. This foaling facility often has to tie up a maiden mare so the foal can start to suck. Once they are used to the sensation the mares usually accept their babies without too much fuss, at least this is what I am told.
I sure hope my mare accepts her foal. She is also a maiden mare, but her full sister has had two foals and my mare had babysat these little foals in the last two foaling seasons.
I will be keeping my fingers crossed when my mare goes to the foaling facility on APril 2nd. She is due May 4-12th but who knows when she will actually deliver. This facility has already foaled out 7 mares this year, and mine is the only one due in May, so i know she will be getting 100% from the owner and staff. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this foal. If she doesnt accept it, your friend should hurry and find a nursemare for it, or at least get some colostrum into the foal if it already isnt to late for the benefits of colostrum for the foal.
I am sure the vet will do whatever is necessary to ensure a happy ending for mare and foal. Let us all know what is happening.
I will be posting some new pictures of my mare. I took her blanket off last weekend and got a few belly and bum shots to compare with the old ones. She sure does have a belly now. She still has a ways to go. She's 287 days today.
twhgait: You may have your friend ask her vet about oral Acepromazine. We carry it at our clinic. She may be able to get enough into her to take the edge off and be able to get her haltered and some IV sedation in her.
Please let us know how this turns out!
twhgait Posted From: 69.23.217.156
Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 10:52 am:
OK everyone; here's an update I received at 7:30 last night....... My friends regular vet came out and they got some tranqulizer in her by feeding it to her with grain (Suzanne, I think it WAS Ace they used). Once she got quiet they were able to halter her, twitch her, muzzle her and get an IV sedative in. Unfortunatly she did bite the vet before the IV took effect, but I think the vet is alright. The placenta was still attached at 7:30 last night. The vet flushed her with antibiotic and left my friend with Oxytocin to give in the muscle every 1 1/2 hrs. They left the halter and lead line on her so they have something to grab onto (my friend is using a stick to grab the leadline and then twitching her). As of last night, they were managing to give her the shots. The vet is coming back out this morning to flush her again and see what progress is being made. The good news is that the foal's levels came back at over 800, so obviously it did get to nurse!!! Currently it is nursing and doing well with mom. They were also able to confirm it's a boy! We are hoping that momma will calm down in a day or two and she will be able to get them outside. I kinda figured something like this would happen with this mare. When I say she's "mean", I mean she's MEAN. She loves to attack anybody that walks past her stall for absolutely no reason. She's certainly not a mare I would have bred, but obviously it's not my call. I figured she would behave like this or she would reject the foal. Thankfully she just wants to protect it.
Has anybody heard of a mare retaining the placenta for so long and doing alright?
Horselady, I'm gonna look around and see if your pictures are up yet!! I'm only a week or so ahead of you, so we'll see who crosses the finish line first! I went out to see my maiden yesterday and although she's not hanging any lower, she seems to be getting wider.
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.127
Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 02:54 pm:
Thank goodness this is all getting taken care of. However, your friend should be aware that this mare will pass on this attutide to her foal. I would suggest that a creep feeder be offered at 30 days and the foal weaned as early as possible. A healthy and mature foal can be weaned at 4 months. The longer the foal stays with that mare, the harder he will be to control. Obviously, there does not need to be another horese like this mare...... and absolutely not a stallion!
twhgait Posted From: 69.23.217.156
Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 04:57 pm:
TX Breeder, you took the words right out of my mouth! Thanks for confirming that info. I know the owner IS planning on getting the foal away from Momma ASAP to prevent any of these learned behaviors but again I ask myself...why did you breed her at all??? She's got a nasty attitude and I'm sure if we look we'll find a piece of someone's ear hanging from her mouth. She's bitten her owner's daughter hard enough to draw blood and she's known to attack anyone near her stall. So...who knows, but I wish them all the luck. They are very nice well intentioned people regardless of their broodmare choices.
Sandy Posted From: 4.228.249.20
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 12:34 pm:
Wow, what a story! I would have to wonder also WHY you would breed a mare with a disposition like that? I purchased a mare last fall that was a daughter of a mare that I owned that I lost to colic. This mare was absolutely gorgeous and I purchased her without ever meeting her. Well, when she was delivered to my place, she was such an ornery mare, mean to all the other mares, bit my husband on the arm and bruised it from armpit to elbow. Needless to say, the mare got sold! I will not even consider keeping a horse on my place with a mean disposition. I don't care if that horse was the best looking horse on the planet, the best bred, whatever, it will go down the road! As for the retained placenta, your friend is definitely looking at a very good possibility of extreme infection in the mare. That is a very long time to retain a placenta. Hopefully the outcome will be good though, and then your friend should seriously consider selling that mare...Just my opinion.
Renee Posted From: 203.49.156.196
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 06:14 pm:
twhgait: Can you give us an update on this situation?? How is the mare and colt going? I hope she doesnt get too crook after retaining the placenta so long, i had a mare that retained part of it, only for around 6hours, and she was quite lucky, a slight infection, but with flushing and care, she recovered well. So i can imagine what damage it could do to this mare! Let us know how they're going.
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.170
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 08:40 pm:
You might suggest that your friend check this mares' testosterone levels. I had a mare in for training that would mount another mare and was as aggressive as a stallion. That was her problem. Her hormones can be playing havoc. Another problem can be cystic overies. Beyond that, her behavior can be changed, however, it is much like training a stallion. Someone who knows what they are doing can change this mare around.
As Renee experienced, with care and antibiotics she should do well. It is amazing that she did not colic first. They will need to aggressively lavage this mare and check on her for discharge.
twhgait Posted From: 69.23.217.156
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 09:34 am:
OK, FINALLY got an update this morning. Mare and foal continue to do fine. The vet was out and did two uterine flushes with antibiotics and saline and momma recieved a total of 5 shots of oxytocin. She finally shed the placenta on Friday at 7pm; so she retained it approx. 22 hrs. My friend says momma is calming down and returning to the way she was before this happened (which means she'll still attack you, she just won't be so obvious about it!!). So, hopefully this will be the end of the ordeal. My thinking is that if momma hasn't crashed yet, maybe she'll be alright. TX Breeder, I will pass this along to my friend, this is something I know we never thought of. THANK YOU!! Sandy, no kidding. EVERYBODY wonders what the thought is with breeding this mare but nobody (including me) has ever stepped up and directly asked. I know they bought her knowing she was like this and she's never really changed. I think that they just accept her for who she is and don't see a problem with it. I too, would never, ever even own a mare like this. It's suppose to be a pleasureable thing, not the daily harrassment this mare seems to cause. I also heard thru the grapevine that they purchased another breeding to the same sire of this foal.........so, I might be writing again about her next year....yeesh. But thank you for the replies and the help. If anything else happens, I'll post it here!
Hopefully everything will go well- I agree that he(the baby) should removed ASAP, my geldings mom was like that and luckily he turned out fine, he LOVES people more than anything. All his mom would have to do with him was to let him nurse!!
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