I have a colt born on May 8th and I am wondering exactly when it would be healthy to wean him. He is already eating quite a bit, grazes a lot in the field, and is very healthy. I have read that anywhere between 3-6 months is just fine. But that seems like a huge window and I want to make sure I do this right. I would like to wean him sooner rather than later(provided it wouldn't hurt him) so that I can start working his mother again. Also, I was wondering if it would be okay to wean him for a show on August 28th. He would be over three months at the time and since I'm already going to the show I was thinking of taking him and showing him in the weanling halter class. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is my first foal and I don't want to make any mistakes. Thank you.
PS-At two months old, he is 45.5 inches at the withers, is this large? His mother is only 14 h.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 64.12.116.22
Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 09:15 pm:
Kristin, I know of people that wean at 3 months and others that wait till 6 months. I personally do 5 months. I usually wait until the foal seems to be pretty independant and mom is starting to get a little annoyed with baby. I think you will find a lot of opinions on this. One thing that definitely helps with the weaning process is having another baby or horse that can take mom's place so the foal is not all alone. I usually put my 19 year old mare in with my foal and I honestly have to say, I've never had a problem at all. Good luck with whatever you decide!
I am in the midst of weaning my colt Scooter. It is day three today, and mare and foal are both looking great, except for one thing: Tiffany's udders got really hard and full yesterday, which i think is normal. Today, the right side has softened considerably, but the left side is bigger and harder than yesterday. Also, the left side has a pocket of liquid in front of the udder and it is very soft and mushy. Is this normal, or should I be concerned? Any help is very appreciated. Joanna
Joanna, Your mare seems to be suffering from a touch of mastitis. My mare is very prone to this as well so for 5 days I keep her in the stable and dry pen with only hay to eat. NO hard feed what soever. I also take her for walks as well. After 5 days I start letting her out on grass for a few hours a day and start letting her have some food back. After 10 days she's back on a normal schedule. If she's in pain and feeling uncomfy call your vet as it can get serious. You can also place a warm wet towel on her udder to help ease the blocking and pain. My mare loves this. Hope this helps, don't leave this now. teb
Joanna, Mastitis can become very hurtful for the mare. It can cause a major infection too if not attended to in a timely fashion. Be really careful and don't wait too long to call a vet if you suspect a proplem. They will put her on antiobotics and a pain reliever. Fever can come with mastitis but not manditory.
KRISTEN, YOU MUST CONSIDER THE EMOTIONAL AS WELL AS THE PHYSICAL STATE OF BOTH THE MARE AND FOAL. I'VE WEANED A FOAL AT THREE MONTHS BECAUSE HIS MOTHER WAS JUST PLAIN ANNOYED WITH HIS ANTICS; HE WAS A LITTLE RUFFIAN. HOWEVER HE GOT THE STALL NEXT DOOR, SUPPLEMENTS, AND PLAYMATES HIS OWN SIZE OUT IN THE PASTURE. THIS YEAR I HAD A FOUR YEAR OLD ARAB MARE WITH A HALF-ARAB PINTO FILLY. IT WAS HER FIRST FOAL AND SHE WAS A VERY GOOD MOTHER. THE FOAL WAS TINY BUT VERY HEALTHY AND THEY GOT ALONG GREAT. THEY CO-INHABITED AND SHARED FEED WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS AND ARE STILL VERY MUCH ATTACHED TO EACH OTHER. MY MARE WAS EXTREMELY PROTECTIVE BUT TRUSTED ME COMPLETELY. I CHOSE TO WEAN AT FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS DUE TO WARMER WEATHER, THE SIZE / WEIGHT OF THE FOAL, AND MY MARE'S DECISION TO CUT BACK ON THE NURSING. IN SHORT, I LET MY HORSES TELL ME WHEN THEY ARE READY. LIKE MY FIRST COLT, THE FILLY GOT THE STALL NEXT DOOR TO HER MOTHER TO REDUCE STRESS AND SEPERATION ANXIETY. AND THEY BOTH RECEIVE PLENTY OF MY ATTENTION. AT 11 MOS. MY FILLY GROOMS, TIES, BATHES, CLIPS, STANDS FOR THE SHOER, TRAILERS, PONIES, LUNGES AND TRUST ME COMPLETELY. WEANING IS A LONG-TERM PROCESS THAT SHOULD INVOLVE THE MARE SO THE FOAL CAN LEARN FROM HER AND FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING ANYTHING YOU ASK. THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS AN EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY SOUND YOUNGSTER WHO IS HAPPY AND WELL ADJUSTED, ALONG WITH HIS MOTHER. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FOALS!
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO FEED ALFALFA HAY: THIS INCREASES LACTATION IN THE MARE. ALFALFA SHOULD BE DECREASED PRIOR TO WEANING AND AT WEANING TIME TAKEN AWAY ALTOGETHER. HOWEVER IT'S HIGH PROTEIN CONTENT IS GOOD FOR YOU NEWLY-WEANED FOAL, PROVIDING THE FOAL IS USED TO EATING IT.
I have been weaning my mare from her foal for the past 2 weeks now. They are both doing great and don't really miss each other. The mares udders did get hard, but now are soft and squishy. Do I have to milk her at all to get the rest of the milk out as I haven't seen much of a change in her udder for the past 6-7 days? Thanks alot
As Laurie says, don't milk her. Also I keep my mares standing in for about a week or in a wood chip paddock with only hay and no grain. I take them on walks too. As long as udder is soft and squishy she should be fine. Also the older the mare and the more foals she has had, the less the bag will disapper all together.
Late weaning query: Is there any particular rush to wean a foal?
Our 7 month old colt has been gradually sort of self weaning since he was 4 months old. He only nurses a couple of times a day now, and that seems to be more of a "security blanket" type behavior than a nutrition thing. He and his mother are still sharing a stall, have their separate feed buckets and get along great.
When I separate the two of them, such as taking him into the other pasture for a training session, he seems totally laid back about being separated from his mother and totally focused on his lessons, which he loves.
In contrast, his mother gets very agitated when he's in the other pasture and the other three horses (2 mares, 1 gelding) get just as agitated as mom, as they all dote on him and are extremely protective. "EEK, the baby's been taken away! Let's run around in circles and be worried!"
On the other hand, while we've had him out on the lead line where he couldn't actually SEE his mother because we walked him around a corner or something, he's never yet been in a situation where he didn't actually know where she WAS.
Out in the field he spends at least as much time, in fact slightly more, with the other herd members, particularly his best buddy and favorite playmate, our 10 year old gelding who is the boyfriend/prince consort of the foal's grandmother, who is our alpha mare.
We've not had the foal gelded yet. He's got that appointment coming up in six weeks time when the vet gets back from Christmas vacation and we know we'll be home all the time and be able to attend to him and exercise him to keep the incision draining. We've heard that it's helpful to geld before you wean, as they ca seek mother's comfort that way.
Currently, we have no choice but to have dam and foal be roommates anyway. As he was an unplanned baby, we only had four stalls and now have five horses. The new shedrow is being delivered in about a month. I figure after he's gotten over the gelding thing, we'd give him his own room, next door to mom's, thereby separating them at night but letting him nurse ad libidum during the day when they're all at pasture together.
We have no plans to take his mother tp any events (we reenact cavalry) anywhere without him until the summer. Once the weather warms up in the spring and he's all healed up from the gelding process, we've booked for both foal and dam to go away for a month to a residential training facility where he can work on advanced training (he's doing SO well!) and we can work on re-schooling her (she's a decent, but stiff ride, but has the ground manners of a bargy, ill-mannered grump). This place will have separate mare and gelding pastures, so that will, in effect, enforce his formal weaning. They'll be back from the training facility by his first birthday, by which time they'll have to be reintegrated into the little family of our five horse herd.
All of this seems to be the logical way to proceed to me, but is there any particular reason to wean him any earlier other than tradition and common practice?
I've read that horses in the wild generally are weaned naturally somewhere between a year and as late as two years.
After about 4 months of nursing a foal does not get many benifits of nursing other than to "wash down" some eaten feed. But it can pull the mare down and make it harder for her to regain her girlish figure. If you are goign to wean then you must wean..taking the foal out just at night and then puting him back in the morning will make you mare very irritable and her bag sore. They may nurse longer in the wild but, wild horses stay within a group adn they only nurse about 9 months as the mare gets ready for her next foal. As domestic horses they are not always together in a group i.e. riding one horse away from everyone else. Mares will always look for their foal if they are nursing and even after weaning if the foals are placed back in with them. They need to learn to be separate or you may have problems down the road if you try and ride or seperate either of them without having the other right there with you. Since he is older, if you have a freinds place that you could take either the mare or the foal to for about 2-4 weeks(the mares bag should be dried up before you put them back together)
Kathryn, Personally, the way you are approaching is they way I would go about it on our farm. We leave our babies on the mare until it is close the 10 month mark if the mare is due to foal again. I really hate weaning before 6 months, which we have done on occassion. It is much easier for us as the mares are real use to this , babies work well away from moms and know that they will return to mom, not feeling threatened like they will never see mom again. We have had excellent results in this as babies tolerate alot knowing they get to go back to mom. I have seen babies weaned way to early and end up being all stressed out and not easy to work with. If we don't have a mare rebred for the following spring, we may even leave baby with mom until later that yearling spring year. Moms can teach babies alot in the herd and it works well for stalling in the winter time. WHere I might see you haveing some trouble is doing the weaning thing at the same time you move him for training away from the farm. I don't know that I would want to waste money and valualbe time away from the house. He may regress alittle and then your money spent is on getting his mind back to training and forgetting about mom. Then again you may have no troubles.
We like to take the approach on weaning as this, the less stress on everyone is the best approach. We will even hall mare and babies together to a show as it is good for the babies(may lessen our trailer space--but we are looking out for the baby). I have well behaved babys with this approach. We seem to have more hollering from the babies when they are weaned at a show than if they know they are going back to mom---it takes a little work to get them to this point , but they learn to be quiet... moms too. Weaning is a stressful time anyways, when done slow and natural is goes great(tried it both ways in both horses and my own offspring-- slow and natural works best !)To wean while trying to show is just almost impossible, they mare is stressed, the baby is stressed and it will loose weight--not what you want trying to show. And they many will then push the feed to the foals at this point and they will have problems with the foal in the future.We look out for the babies when it comes time to wean-whats best for them. Naturally if a mare is having trouble we will wean baby, but only if its necessary. We had one mare for a while that at 6 months the baby had to be weaned, the mare would just loose to much weight no matter what she was fed. If we have a yearling that is weaned and mom has a new baby at her side , we will find alot of times that if that yearling is around mom and foal(naturally after that new foal is older, close to i'd say 3 months or so) mom lets her other offspring still nurse at times, or will allow another foal in the herd to nurse. This is after mom has established a bond with her foal and pecking order is in place with the mares and foals in the herd. Our vets just cring at the people that wean at 4 months old. I have to agree with them for most circurmstances that is way to early. You will have situations that you must wean early but do it only when necessary.
I did abrupt weaning at 5 1/2 months. Mom was picked up and taken to a boarding barn and baby stays here with his granddam who he has pastured with since birth. I think it was the best way to do it for my situation. I thought about the gradual method, which is what you and Kim are discussing but I just don't have the facilities. Also, I didn't know how upset both would be at being seperated yet able to see eachother (I read it can be quite upsetting to both of them). I didn't want to risk any injury. It went very, very well. As soon as mom was loaded up and gone, there were no cries and no problems. He nursed off of his granddam for about a week (obviously more like a pacifier), now 2 weeks later he has stopped all attempts. Mom comes back Jan. 15th and hopefully the nursing will be done, although she will again be with him 24/7 (mine are pastured). If he starts up again, she will leave again. I've read that if dam and foal are not weaned and left to nature, they will always be too bonded. Weaning takes away that bond and allows for the human to step in and be the new "Leader" and this is to make for an excellent partnership with humans. I don't know how true this is (obviously the gradual method works well for Kim), but I guess I'll find out! I spent his first week after weaning with him twice a day working on all the little things like picking up feet, leading, parking, whoa-ing and just messed with him alot. Seems like he's always excited to see me (especially during feeding time!) and so far he's been wonderful to work with. So, there's my 2cents!!!
I have tried the gradual and the cold turkey and find the cold turkey seems to work best. I didn't find any benefit with the gradual, in fact I found it to be more stressful on both mare and foal. The 2 foals this year had to be weaned at 3 months due to rapid growth issues, the 2nd one didn't even call for his mom until half an hour had passed. What I find that helps ease the stress most is to have a stall buddy the first few nights. I'll use either another already weaned foal or our donkey for this. Most of my foals have been 6 months before being weaned, and I did not find any difference in the stress level between weaning them older or younger. In fact the last foal I weaned at 3 months was the easiest I've had out of 11 foals. And there is nothing wrong with the manners on any of the foals that were weaned younger.
When I am talking about manners, it is normally a temp thing and once the weaning is complete, good manners return if they had them to begin with. For us, we have the room to let mom and baby to stay together. Six months is is alot differnt than 3 months of age a total wean--cold turkey. We find here that our mares and babys are shown whether it be 4-h or on the circurt and so the mare are baby are seperated for exercise as well as when it is time for rebreding, which we normally attempt on a foal heat unless there is trouble. So Our mares and foals are tought from the beginning to expect to be seperated and expected to behave, nothing else is accepted. So for us the gradual, natural method works well, there are those that have a mare that is very posesive and panics at any time a baby is left. For me those mares don't last long around our farm because we use the mares and babys for show and pleasure. I had a mare,for a while that was so posesive that she would end up hurting the baby trying to protect it. It also teaches bad habits in the babies so , in these types of cases , wean early ! Noramally for us if nature takes it course, come time for the actual seperation , is very easy as babys have made other bonds with humans and other horses so the seperation is easy and the demand of nursing no longer exists as they have found they like the grain and hay and fill their needs this way. Our babys don't have a problem with bonding with humans as we have messed with them from birth and they know about us. We want to be their compainion not their mother. If you take too much of the natural thing away , their instincts, you tend to create monstors in a way. That is just like I read in a article that some of the cattle industry as well as others, the mothering instinct is bred out of them because the babys are taken away much to early and used for milking. The cow has no clue what to do and the calf is supplmented with milk replacer. When we wean at 10-12 months we see no stress on the babys or mares, they normally don't even holler at each other, and if so , it is just a couple of times, acknowledging that they are there. If we wean at a younge age the babies will even try to find mom and try to go through fences as they are looking for mom. So for us the stess is alot less. We have had about 40 foals I am estimating could be a few more. ?? (How stupid can we be ! ) Rooty, why because of rapid growth did you wean them ? Was it causing problems for the mare ? For us we consider still nursing a good thing when babys are going through growth spurts--they are still getting the good stuff from mom(unless they are pulling the mare down) . When we wean we normally wean all babys together and keep a couple in a stall. This seems to work weel too, they are already use to each other as they were together as mare/foals. We also having done a certian amount of imprinitng with the new foals , so there is already a human bond there and they not fear us. The bonding has already taken place for a good number of months and it is a easy transition instead of having a fear and "needing" the attention from a human--they are comfortable with humans and have a good working relationship. I hope that I am not sounding redundant, I am just trying to explain how its worked for us in both manners. I would agree that there are certian times and conditions that warrent a cold turkey weaning and we have done it that way , but in general the natural method is/does work well for the most part and boy the mare can sure teach some good herd manners (or bad for that manner too , wean early ! .
I do have a couple mares that I have kept, they were transitioned to our "mare" lot , they are out of one of our mares and weaned and then returned to the lot of "mares" and there is no bond between their dam and themselves, they have had to prove themselves inside the group of mares and they certianally love attention and know who takes care of them and grooms them.
Ok, enough said . Both ways can work-just depends on given circumstances
Kim if foals are growing to quickly on there dams this can cause joint problems for them so some foals will need to be weaned early to slow down there growth rate and to protect them from devaloping these joint problems which can ruin a horse for life. It is the same effect if you over feed young weaned horses and make them grow to fast or make them to fat. I am guessing that this is what Rooty was talking about.
Thanks for clairifing things, we would rather leave them on the mare then feed them more grain-its cheeper too!(never seen any problems with them getting with what nature intended) but have seen problems with them getting over fed with grain. We dont' believe in pushing a young horse --thats one reason we let the mares provide a good portion of their daily intake. Our first stallion that we owned was fed to keep with with his growth, never overfed , the colts that he showed againts were no place to be found as 4 year olds--they were pushed way to hard as weanlings and yearlings. Many of them had foundered by the time they were 4 , many had joint problems because of being pushed to hard with feed and training/work. Nature did not intend for a horse of 3 months to be weaned, but again I have never seen this kind of joint problem from nursing and growing-naturally. Seen lots of problems with people over feeding them. I have a old time horse person, been in the business for long time, tbs, qh , paints, and they old folk believe that they don't need very little grain if any, and when we humans interfer is when a horse has problems.
Kim k, I notice your list doesn't include WB's. They have huge genetic potential for growth, much more so than TB's, QH's and Paints. In the case of our two foals this year they were only getting hay, a mineral supplement and whatever grain they could steal from mom (in the case of the good keeper mare, the dam was only on a vitamin/mineral supplement herself, even nursing she didn't require grain). The bigger foal was born very large with contracted tendons to begin with, and at about 3 months started to get very upright on the left front, and had heat in all her fetlock joints, she was growing too fast, her bones were growing faster than her tendons could keep up with - and like I said she was not getting very much grain. This was from nursing. We had to wean her to get her to lose weight and stop growing so fast. She was also really pulling the mare down, this mare is a little tricky because she loses her appetite in the last 2 months of pregnancy, and even though she does foal in decent weight, doesn't have a lot of reserves for a big, hungry foal like this one was. The other foal also started to get upright on his right front, he was not as severe a case as the big girl, but he too had to be weaned to slow the growth down. The big filly I fully expect will make 17hh, and her poor mom is only 15.2hh.
This is very interesting to me. We currently have a foal out of a very large TB mare, who is starting to get very upright and our vet has suggested weaning him. He's a big boy in height and weight. So tomorrow he says goodbye to his Mamma at 3 and a half months.
This is the earliest we have weaned other than a couple of poor boys over the years who lost their dams to colic. Both of those were halter broken (yarded by themselves but next to another horse)and then put out with a companion. The first thing they both did was to try and suck on their companion's sheath. One managed to get away with it quite a bit, but tho other was told NO in very firm manner. Is this common in early weaned foals?
We usualy wean at 4 to 5 months as our brood mares are 12 and 14 now and our foals tend to be fast growers. Two years ago our filly tried to do that to her brother at weaning time. He would not alow it though.I am not sure if it has to do with early weaning or just the insecurity of the foal. OUr foals are weaned at this time becuase by then they are eating very well and not nursing much. I always try to ween foals with an older horse and my mares and foals can still see and touch each other through the 5 1/2 foot fence so there is less stress involved. It has worked so far for me but everyone has a different approach.
Rooty, Thanks for taking the time to reply. After your reply it would only make sense to do what you have to do. It does not make sense to me to leave a baby on a mare when your mare is having problems as well. I don't agree with breeders that wean for their convience because of show or selling a foal at three months and neither do the vets in our area. Again there are ceritan exceptions to be had. Ok, now I have a question (feeling stupid about now ) what is a wb ? I just don't think i know this abreviation! Yes, I have raised TB, Qh, and Paints. My xqh(appendix quarter horses) actually come out of the Prospector line (don't see that too often) and on the Quarter side is King breeding (I owned a mare for a while that came right off the King ranch--a big stocky power house mare ). I have a coming 4 year old colt four sale right now if you know if anyones interested.
Is your 4 year old broke? Could you put up pictures. Oh by the way, I also agree with weaning between 4-6 months and 3 months only if there are complications or the foal is big and independant enough. When I weaned my foal this year, I weaned at 5 months. He wasn't quite ready as a 4 month old(a little small) so I kept him on for another month and now he's 12.3 hh. Its pretty cool how things change from him being his little 9 hand thing to being the 12.3 thing with the hips and but to die for.
Kim k - WB = warmblood. Our big girl is by a Holsteiner out of a TB/QH mare. This mare has a history of having very large babies, in fact I will not breed her to a stallion known for throwing size. I would prefer to leave the foals on the mare until 6 months, but it was just not good for anybody's health this year, this early weaning is not for my convenience or to get to shows, I like to show my babies, but it isn't a priority. As far as the sheath sucking goes, I find that no matter what age I wean at that every new weaner has to check out their companion's underneaths just in case their might be a meal there. My elderly mare who I usually use as a weanling companion discourages this and they don't bother to try the donkey. A friend of mine had a foal that was orphaned in the first 24 hours, he was largely bottle and bucket fed after the first couple of weeks, and he still tried to suck from another colt that was orphaned when they were turned out together.
Amy, no the colt is not saddle broke. He will be this coming spring. Ground work and lots of attention for now. If you want you can contact me at my email address. Let me know. His mare was xqh and sire was paint. He is breedstock APHA. He needs to be gelded, never used for service, quite fellow. He has very little white on him--I think his pasturns, A friend wanted to use him for barrels--don't do much in that area, she thought he would be good at it. I believe he would be considered red roan. His full sister grayed out , but he keeps getting darker when he gets a new coat, when its time for shedding he has more gray. The gray comes from the TB. He is not real big either. He actually has taken on the more shorter stocky look whereas his sister is tall and tb looking. I would say he is about 14 3.-- Thats just guessing.
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