When my foal nurses his dam, milk drips out of his nostrils. My vet examined him twice, and she couldn't find a cleft palate. She called the State School, and they recently had a foal that came in with aspiration pnuemonia from the same cause, endoscoped him and found nothing wrong with the foal. They gave him a selenium/vitamin E shot and in two days this foal was no longer aspirating his milk. We tried the same experimental treatment, plus he was treated with antibiotics (to prevent aspiration pnuemonia) and Gasguard for 10 days. Although now he seems much better, he doesn't drip as much or as frequent when he keeps his head up or straight. But when he puts his nose low towards the ground a little milk does drips out, and he has learned to blow it out. He now 12 days old, starting to eat hay, and sometimes he coughs like the hay gets stuck in his throat. He has now finished his antibiotic regime, so he is on his own - and I am afraid that he will get sick (which is making me sick!). My vet's recommedation, if be becomes ill, is to take him to State to be endoscoped and possible surgury, but it is very very expensive and beyond my financial means. I am afraid if he becomes ill, we will be taking him to State for a necropsy instead :o( Is it possible that what ever is causing him to aspirate is further down throat and couldn't be felt by the vet? Could he possibly out grow it? What are his chances if he doesn't have surgury? This morning his was nursing normally, running around and cutting up like any normal foal. It makes me so sad that there is nothing more I can do for him: I wish I was rich. Any advise or suggestions would greatly be appreciated
Ivy contrary to common belief it is (almost) impossible, or at least very unlikely that a vet with average sized hands would be able to detect by digital palpation, all but the most severe case of cleft palate in a foal, unless they have the hands of a professional basket ball player who can palm the ball. Their mouth opening is just to small and it is usually just to far back. What your describing sounds very much like a minimal case of cleft palate. However it would take putting the foal under general anesthesia and a scope to look far enough into the mouth to make an accurate diagnosis. Sorry but there is simply no other accurate way to do this.
HP
Kelly (63.172.47.210)
Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 11:30 pm:
I too had a foal that had milk return through his nose. I checked him for a cleft palate, and like your vet, I could find no appearent problem. This foal was a day away from a trip to Texas A&M. He did stop having milk return through his nose the next day.
Your foal has gone almost 2 weeks now. It does seem that further examination may be in order.I understand how upsetting this is to watch.
I am hoping that today was a turning point for your foal. Please let us know how things are progressing. You have done all the right things to help him along. He seems to be strong and this is a good sign.
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 09:02 am:
Thank you both for your responses. I have a few more thoughts and questions; I have done some reading into cleft palates, and I don't know how old the articles were (modern technology), but I got the impression that the surgery was not always successfull, and sometimes it took more than one attempt to correct. Also, post-surgery complications and recovery sound terrible, so I am wondering if it is really worth putting the poor foal through all that. What is the possibility that the problem will clear up with time, providing he doesn't aspirate and come down with pnuemonia? Is there a chance? Kelly, how old was your foal when he quit aspirating his milk? And what kind of treatment(s) were administered before you made the decission to take him to A&M? My colt has gotten better with time, and I am hoping and praying that where ever the hole in his throat is that it closes. Did your vet(s) have any explaination for the closure? How much was the general, endoscope and surgery going to cost? I live on the east coast, and veterinary care seems more expensive here. All my vet told me was that it would be very, very expensive, and that was all I needed to know. I am really struggling with the decission if he becomes ill to have him put down, but at this date I can't go too much further into debt. I have five other horses, and you all know how expensive horses can be. This morning the colt seemed fine, he was running and bucking circles around is mom. He laid down in her hay, and started eating it. I did hear him cough once, but that is not unusal for him. He really is precious, beautiful appaloosa markings and h.o.f. bloodlines; what a shame! :o( Once again, thank you for the information and support. I'll keep you updated.
Kelly (63.172.47.223)
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:36 am:
The vet at that time( 7 years ago ), thought that depending on the severity of the problem and the over all condition of the foal, a satisfactory outcome could be expected. I am very lucky to be within 3 hours of Texas A&M. The cost at that time was prohibitive for me as well. The best that I can recall, it was estimated at between $1,500 and $5,000. All depending of course, on what was found and how recovery went.
My foal was nursing normally at 3 days. We believe that it took a bit longer for this foal to have the proper muscle reflex for swallowing.
The fact that your foal is strong will have a big effect on the surgery and recovery success. Do not despair, it sounds as if things are going your way. Call around and ask if there is any payment program that they might accept, just in case. You might ask around and see if any body would like to own the foal for the treatment price. I have seen this happen, there are many people that would like to give him a chance and help.
I wish that I could be more help. The babies are so precious. Good luck, I hope that we continue to hear reports of improvment.
Stacy A Semevolos, DVM, and Norm Ducharme, DVM, MS, Dip. ACVS, Equine Hospital, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853.
Congenital cleft palate in horses is an uncommon deformity affecting approximately 0.1-0.2% of the equine population. The condition is a malformation of the soft and sometimes hard palate where the left and right side fail to unite, forming a cleft. It is usually recognized shortly after birth when the foal starts nursing. The most common clinical signs include milk coming out of both nostrils and coughing while nursing. Some foals with smaller defects in the palate are not thrifty and develop recurrent lung infection. Larger palatal defects produce more severe clinical signs and are life-threatening because of aspiration of milk and feed material into the lungs. Therefore, early detection and correction of the condition are important to reduce the severity of aspiration pneumonia.
If you suspect that your foal may have a cleft palate, call your veterinarian immediately. In addition to thorough physical and oral examinations, your veterinarian will need to perform additional diagnostic tests such as endoscopy and x-rays. Endoscopy of the throat area is essential to defining the extent of the cleft. X-rays of the lungs will help to determine the severity of pneumonia caused by aspiration of feed material. Both the extent of the cleft and the presence of pneumonia are key determinants for prognosis when considering treatment for cleft palate.
The only current treatment for congenital cleft palate is surgical correction of the cleft. This procedure involves either splitting the lower jaw or creating an incision in the throatlatch region to provide access to the defect. The surgery can be technically quite demanding due to the depth of the incision and poor visibility. Complications are common (greater than 85%) following surgical correction and include: complete or partial breakdown of the repaired palate, incisional infections, and continued aspiration of feed material. Even successful repairs will often require more than one surgery to achieve complete healing of the palatal defect.
After surgery, special care of the foal is essential and includes long-term antibiotic treatment and special feeding procedures for 2 to 4 weeks. The soft and hard palates are exposed to high numbers of bacteria from the environment; antibiotics help to prevent infection in the repaired palate, as well as treat any underlying lung disease. Special feeding procedures are necessary to reduce strain on the palate after surgery. Foals are allowed to nurse milk following surgery but are restricted from solid food (hay and grain) for several weeks. Alternatively in older foals, a pelleted gruel may be fed through a stomach tube or an esophagostomy (hole into the esophagus). The latter procedure has fallen out of favor due to complications associated with the esophagostomy site.
Despite the high complication rate, surgery can be successful in some cases. Certainly foals with smaller defects that affect only the soft palate have a better chance for survival following surgery than those with large defects involving both the hard and soft palates. As many as 50% of surgically-treated horses have had complete healing of the palatal defect following one or more surgeries.
However, even with complete healing of a repaired cleft palate, athletic potential may be compromised. This is due to dysfunction of the muscle tone of the soft palate. Palatal muscles normally serve to tense the palate so it does not collapse into the nasopharynx. When these muscles are abnormal, the soft palate can "billow" and obstruct the airway during exercise, causing an upper airway noise and early fatigue.
Another concern when considering treatment for cleft palate is the potential heritability of the condition. Though heritability has not been proven in horses, a strong correlation has been found in humans. Because of the concern for passing undesirable, life-threatening traits on to offspring, we advise not breeding any horse that has received a cleft palate repair. Additionally, it may be ill-advised to repeat the breeding cross that resulted in an affected foal.
In conclusion, congenital cleft palate of the horse is a difficult condition to treat and has some heritability concerns. Though uncommon (affecting 1 to 2 foals in every thousand), cleft palate is an important disease because of its life-threatening potential. Contact your veterinarian immediately if you notice that your foal has milk coming out of either nostril or seems to cough frequently while nursing. If your foal is diagnosed with a cleft palate, the decision for surgical repair should not be taken lightly. Surgical repair should be elected only after careful consideration of the potential drawbacks.
Kelly (63.172.47.202)
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 12:41 pm:
Ivy~ How is it going? We are wondering about the status of your foal. Hope that things are improving.
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 01:58 pm:
Hi Kelly, The little colt seems to be doing OK. He is still dripping sometimes, but not a whole lot. I am wondering if he could live with his condition without the surgery? I agree with Horsepro, his deformity must be minimal because he looks very healthy, one would never know by looking at him that he had a problem. He has started eating small amounts of grain and hay, and I have even caught him drinking a little out of the water. I guess I am taking it day by day, and if he does well this week I'll send in his registration application. I have some pictures of him, if you would like to see them I could email them to you privately. Thanks to you and Horse Pro for your advise and support. ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.202)
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 02:56 pm:
Thanks for the update. Does the water drip out as well? It would be interesting if it doesn't. Let me know if you can observe that.
I am happy to hear that he is doing well. If all is well next week, that would be 10 days off of antibiotics, right? I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you both.
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 08:41 am:
Good morning, I have not observed any water coming from his nostrils, but then water is clear, so I will have to watch close for that. You are right, the end of this week will be ten days off, so how long does it take for antibiotics in his system to disapate? If he is going to have any problems, would it be after these ten days? Is the antibiotics still protecting him? I was thinking since it took 48 hrs for the antibiotics to get into his his system, it would be 48 hours or so to leave his system, and he was already "on his own" and doing good. What are your thoughts? ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.227)
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 12:31 pm:
Ivy- How is that colt doing? I hope that he has continued to improve.
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 02:53 pm:
Hi Kelly, The colt is doing great.....but he is still dripping milk/water - just a very little amount :o( I don't hear him coughing anymore when he nurses or eats, so that must a good sign (?). He has learned to compensate for his defect by blowing out all the fluids, so maybe he will be fine and stay healthy. I am hoping by the time he is ready for weaning, the problems will "have gone away". A question I can't get an answer to is, can he live a normal horse life with his condition if he doesn't outgrow it? Thank you for your concern :o)
Kelly (63.172.47.198)
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 02:03 am:
Ivy- Sounds good!
I know of a supplement that inhibits the growth of microorganisms that are associated with Pneumonia, coughing etc. Specifically, Aspergillus and Streptococcus Beta. It is very effective against molds and fungus. It seems to me, that it may be of benefit for this foal from a preventative point of view.
This supplement is low cost and drug free. It has no oder or taste. I have used it on a number of my horses with great results. They eat it right up. There are no side effects associated with it. If you might be interested in more info. e-mail me at Kellyh@hctc.net. I would be happy to explain further. If not, good luck and look forward to another update soon!
I would like to know how common it is for a mare to give birth to a foal with only three legs. The leg is missing in the front. The colt seems to be healthy, and moves around just as any other colt. What is the outcome for survival if the colt is not put down? Is there a name for this defect? Please email me ASAP with any information. Thank you! tottie@twlakes.net
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 08:46 am:
Kelly, Did you recieve my email message that I sent to you privately? I am interested in the supplements, please send me more information. My email is, irittenhouse@uncfsu.edu. BTW, my colt is doing wonderful. I have done a lot of reading on Cleft Palates, and it effects 0.1% of foal population, and only 10% if that 0.1% survive to adulthood: That is very small odds! Most people euthanize, and I am glad that my vet never suggested that, because I am starting to get a good feeling about him. He is awsome to look at, so healthy and playful. I am planning on gelding him (I would have loved to sell him as a stud colt; he has the conformation; bloodlines and color) when he is five months. I have seen and felt him and they are there. Although it is not proven to be herditary, I don't want to take the chance. I did bred the mare back to the same stallion, my stallion, but I don't think I will have this problem, again. ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.225)
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 09:32 am:
Ivy- No I didn't, but I will contact you via your e-mail soon. So glad to hear about the good progress. I believe that you guys are going to do just fine!
My feeling is that prehaps the palatal muscles were the problem. Is he is very nearly normal while eating or drinking? We will talk later,once again, thanks for the good news.
Ivy (152.6.26.52)
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 11:20 am:
Kelly - He is eating normal and drinking water fine: If he nurses slowly he doesn't drip. Can you tell me more about the palatal muscles? Thanks, ijr
Ivy (152.6.24.48)
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 08:56 am:
My colt is still doing fine, but it seems he has developed an ulcer: He is grinding his teeth. Did he get an ulcer from the antibiotics I administered to him when he was first born? I had a filly several years ago that had an ulcer, before they developed gasguard, and she was treated/w tagament (?). Every once in a while she will still grind (and it was hard keeping weight on her), and it drives me crazy, but at $50.00/tube of gasguard and you have to treat for 30 days, I can't afford to treat her. Now with this colt, he is much smaller, so I am going to treat him. Does gasguard completely heal the ulcer? I would like opinions before I start him on it Friday.
Ivy (152.6.24.41)
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 11:05 am:
Kelly - I am interested in the suppliments, but I am giving him gastroguard at the moment, and it is very expensive, so maybe later I'll contact you privately. I have a question, lately my colt makes a snorting/snoreing sound while he is eating, is this normal or does it have something to do with his condition?. Thanks for all the info. ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.227)
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:29 pm:
Ivy- No, that is not normal. Has this just developed? I am going to make a few phone calls for you and let you know what the concensus is. It does sound to me as if it is related to his condition. Have you had an xray of his lungs taken yet? I think it would be beneficial for you to have that information, now that he is eating feed on his own. ( has he been weaned ?)
What are you feeding him? ( grain wise ).At what height is his feeder located? ( is it head level, between the head and knees, or on the ground level )I will check back in a while. Glad to hear that you two are hanging in there. You have done a great job caring for him.
Ivy (152.6.24.41)
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 04:29 pm:
Kelly thank you for replying. I noticed him making these strange low noises about a week ago, and from what I hear,it defently doesn't sound like it is coming from his lungs and he is not been coughing. He seems so full of energy, curiousity and mischief to be ill. He is not weaned, my vet and I felt he should finish the Gastroguard treatment first before we wean him. He is getting Purina Omalene 100 (10%), electrolites and topped/w vegtable oil. He, a while ago, starting to have tight tendons so I cut his mom's protein and put her on 10% too, and his front legs are now straight. He is eating out of a bucket on the ground, so he is eating with his head down. I appreciate you making the phone calls, I will look forward to hearing from you in the morning. My day is over :o) I'll go home and check on him, as usual. ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.202)
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 04:37 pm:
Ivy- I talked with a vet that I really respect about your boy. He said that it could be a number of different things related to the soft palate. To scope the foal would cost $100.00 at his clinic. That would be the only way to absolutely know what was going on.
He feels that you are well on your way, because you have avoided any respiratory infections. He agreed that the "roaring" you are hearing is because of a cleft palate, or because of the muscles not reacting normally. As with my foal, the palatal muscles were not constricting normally. He obviously got over it with time. Yours may too. This vet asked if your foal was an Arabian. It seems that he has had more Arabians present with this problem than other breeds, although any breed can have it. The nerves of the muscles can have a temporary paralysis, which may correct itself.
His advice was, to keep him free of infection. It would certainly help if you could scope him somewhere. There are proceedures that can be done if it is not a cleft palate. Race horses can have a similar problem with flaps and there are thing that can be done.
All in all, he thought that to go this long without infection was a great advantage. Let's keep it that way!
Ivy (152.6.25.139)
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:17 am:
Kelly: Thank you for the information. My colt is an appaloosa, six hall of fame sires in five generations,and he is just gorgeous! One hundred dollars is not bad, I can handle that amount (I live on the east coast, and vet care is much more expensive than the west - where are you from?). My problem is, my strictly equine vet doesn't have a scope, so I would have to transport him all the way to NCSU, which is a several hours drive, and my horse trailer is not be safe for a mare/w foal. What I think I am going to do is call other vets in the area and see if anyone of them have a scope (I kinda doubt it). Another alternative is to wait until he is weaned, trailer break him, and then drive him to NCSU myself providing they don't charge me an arm and leg. Please don't get me wrong, I know horses are expensive, and I have a total of six horses, so I am pretty much horse poor. I too, am very encuraged that he has not come down with any respiratory infections yet. I have done what I can for this foal, within my means, and I have left the rest in God's hands. Happy Friday. ijr
Ivy (152.6.25.139)
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:42 am:
Kelly: Good news! I called around, and only one vet has an endoscope....and they JUST got it! The procedure will cost $100 - $150, including a FARM CALL!! Yippe! The vet is going to be calling me back within the hour, the vet assistant said he might want to wait until my colt is finished with the Gastroguard treatment. I guess while I am at it, I should have the vet look down is tummy to see if the ulcers have healed. ijr
Ivy (152.6.25.139)
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 02:56 pm:
Kelly: I made the appoointment, it is for the 15th at 11:00 EST. I'll let you know on the 16th what the vet sees, he will look at his palate and his tummy. I have to trailer him there, the vet is loaning me his personal trailer, because they are going to give him a general and they feel he would be better off at the clinic. ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.196)
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 04:39 pm:
What great news! I am so happy that you will finally have answers to all of your questions.I will be waiting to hear all about it.
I live it Texas now. I used to show an Appy mare in the A.S.H.A. trail classes when I lived in Ca. She was the only one at that time winning at that level. I had a fun time with her. Now, I breed and raise cutting horses.
Between your care and God's hands, your foal is in luck!
Ivy (152.6.24.6)
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 11:55 am:
Kelly: Good news!!!! The colt doesn't have a cleft palate. His palate muscle is too long, and it vibrates more than it should, but he will out grow it as he gets bigger. Also, his ulcers have healed, so we are taking him off the Gastroguard. He does have a slight respiratory infecting, we are treating it with an oral sulfa antibiotic twice a day for 10 days. Will I need to give him a probotic afterwards? I should have asked the vet, but didn't think of it at the time. I don't want him having any more gut problems after the treatment. The vet and I agreed I am to wean him at four/five months (he is now three months). I feel so much better! ijr
Kelly (63.172.47.182)
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 02:15 pm:
Ivy- I was just sitting here wondering about you and that little fella! Hooray! I thought all along that it had something to do with those muscles. I am relieved.
Please get that supplement that we discussed. I promise that you will be thrilled with it. It is just what he needs. It will keep him off of the antibiotics ( you are probably using SMZ at the moment, good stuff )so much, and keep his gut on an even keel. Great news, it doesn't get much better than that!
Ivy (152.6.24.6)
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 02:42 pm:
Kelly: I am very interested in those supplements. Let me see if I can afford it when I get paid at the end of the month: I will email you privately. Thank you for all your help/concerns, and I really appreciate your moral suport. God Bless You. ijr
I would like to know what to feel for in the foal's mouth to check for a cleft palate. I have a colt that just is not drinking enough but otherwise is acting normal. When I stuck my finger in his mouth, the roof of his mouth has a ridge, like an up-side-down mountain range, down the center. I am afraid I know what it is and the outcome for this nice colt but want to be sure. My vet is closed all weekend so I have to wait for Monday to make an appointment, and I can't take him until Wednesday. Thanks, Judy
appalotranch Posted From: 152.6.22.172
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 08:01 am:
Does he have milk running out of his nose? If so then I would say he "might" have a cleft palate, maybe not. I had a foal several years ago and the was milk running out of his nostriles every time he nursed and I had him endoscoped and it turned out he didn't have a cleft palate but had something too large and as he grew he out grew it. Hopefully, this will be the same senerio with your colt. We did have problems with infections in his lungs which he was treat several times for with antibiotics. Today, he is a fine four year old and I am riding him. I hope all works out for you and keep us posted. -Ivy
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.163
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 03:13 pm:
Judy- Insert your hand, palm up into his mouth, and then push your middle finger as far back on the roof of the mouth as you can go.( way back there)You would not want to feel a hole, or abrupt ending of the soft palate.It may not be decectale without a scope.
If you do not notice any milk return, then I would not suspect a cleft palate. He may not want to drink cold water! Mommas milk is nice and body temperature. Keep an eye out, but it sounds as if all is pretty normal.
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