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How Soon After Foaling to Do ET?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Embryo Transfer » How Soon After Foaling to Do ET? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Saucy
Neonate
Username: Saucy

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 06:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an older mare who's currently in foal but from next year onwards I intend to do ET (because of her age, and because I'd like to get more than 1 foal per year from her).

My question is:
Based on comments on other threads it would appear that the foal heat is a poor cycle to use for ET. Assuming you let them go through the foal heat, would you then jab them back into season or wait for the next natural foal heat? The mare's not due until June so I'm keen to crack on as soon as possible after foaling but because of the expense of ET I don't want to waste my time or money trying too early and failing...
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10345
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Short-cycling using prostaglandin on day 16 post-foaling is a fairly reliable method of inducing estrus in a mare for breeding after foaling, but not using the foal heat.

With ET though, you need to have good synchronization of the donor and recipient mare, and PGF2a is not going to give you the degree of control you require. We like to use P&E when we are synchronizing mares for ET, but you should consult with the veterinarian that is doing the procedure to find out what they desire. Lack of synchronization will blow the success rate, so it is important to talk to them!
 

PMC
Neonate
Username: Keysfins

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd echo what Jos says about the P & E regimen. Last spring, we tried to synch my donor and two recips with Regumate. None of the mares read the repro book. Not only did they NOT line up, my mare ended up with a persistent anovulatory follicle. She finally ovualted normally, and we got the embryo to transfer on that first cycle.

Interestingly, our next two attempts were not successful. After retrieving the embryo, we shortcycled my mare and also gave her EFSH to superovulate. Altho she produced 4 nice follicles, no embryo was retrieved. Same on the last cycle. We shortcycled but did NOT give EFSH, and she still produced 4 follicles, none of which were recovered as embryoes for transfer. My mare is a Dutch WB, so the EFSH may be redundant, since WB's frequently have multiple ovulations.

We were ultimately successful in the first ET attempt, even though the recip was not in synch, because CSU had the ability to vitrify the "embryo" to wait for the recip to be ready.
 

Saucy
Neonate
Username: Saucy

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PMC - so you froze your embryo before transplant and it was still ok? I heard that freezing embryos just reduces the chance of successful pregnancy even more...
 

PMC
Neonate
Username: Keysfins

Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The embryo (morula/early blastula stage) was retrieved at 6 days after ovulation. It was small enough to vitrify. I was there when the recip was ready, so I was able to see the process of warming and transferring. Keep in mind, this is at CSU, where they have done about 2000 ET's, and are cutting-edge with vitrifying very early embryoes. This is NOT standard for doing a direct transfer!
Just passed 100 days, and foal is active and growing.
 

Chuck Lewter
Weanling
Username: Chuck

Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2011 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos- For clarification, I have read the P&E therapy and I have a couple questions.

Can I start the therapy on the day following ovulation?

Does starting the therapy mid cycle hold off the next ovulation through the 20 day period.

I am trying to synch 3 or 4 mares next season to ship on a single collection that will be shipped to me. 2 of the 3 mares being pregnant now but will wait for heat cycle following foal heat at a minimum.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3425
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I start the therapy on the day following ovulation?

Yes.

Does starting the therapy mid cycle hold off the next ovulation through the 20 day period.

It will be a little dependent upon what is present on the ovaries at the commencement of treatment. If there is a large pre-ovulatory follicle there, it will sometimes ovulate - but if it does, by the time of the Prostaglandin F injection at 10 days, there is a receptive CL present. Otherwise, ovarian activity is typically suppressed. Note as ever however, that the success rate is about 90%, so there will be some failures.

If you are in the USA, you can also consider using BET Pharm's biorelease altrenogest, which is a single shot and gives as good control over the cycle in most cases as the daily dosages (and one can fine-tune at the end with ovulation promotors).
 

Chuck Lewter
Weanling
Username: Chuck

Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, so deciding which therapy (P&E, or biorelease altrenogest) to use on each mare would be dependent on where each mare was in their cycle to bring them all to ovulation on a synchronized day? Or both therapy's have equal results and you are not suggesting one or the other. I am in the US. Just trying to get my plan of attack in order and have my vet on the same page as i am for perscriptions i will need. I read your information page with all the different regimens. From reading, i thought the P&E protocol was the most effective for the desired synchronizing. maybe I need to go re-read. Also these are draft mares so dosage would be more because of the body weight? Thanks for your reply. I love this place!
 

Chuck Lewter
Weanling
Username: Chuck

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went back to read your articles regarding the therapies. I'm reading the P&E regimen is basically similar in affect and success as the biorelease therapy, just different administration. One is a daily injection whereas the biorelease is is a one shot slow release long acting hormone? So do i have it correct now, or am i all screwed up? LOL! Giving shots and monitoring follicles is easy here, just want to use the therapy that will give the best shot at successfully synchronizing the mares.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3426
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've got it correct. There is a daily-dose (x10 days) P&E; there is a biorelease (single shot) P&E; and there is a biorelease (single shot) altrenogest. The daily dose P&E will probably produce the most accurate result, but if you are able to monitor mares for follicular growth, there is an advantage in using a single-shot biorelease formulation, of which the altrenogest has proven the most reliable timing-wise for us.

It doesn't matter where the mares are at the start of treatment. They will all (up to 90%!!!) "level out" by 14 days or so. If you have one mare that has a more rapidly developing follicle come breeding time, don't give her an ovulation promotor; if you have one that's lagging a little, use biorelease Histrelin (also from BET Pharmacy) as it works on slightly smaller follicles than does hCG. That's what I mean by manipulation of timing - it's at the back end of the period, not the front end.

It probably would be advisable to increase the dosage for draught mares.



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