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Donor Mare would be 2 years old -- Too early?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Embryo Transfer » Donor Mare would be 2 years old -- Too early? « Previous Next »


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Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an outstanding yearling filly that is being pointed right now toward the two and three year-old snaffle bit futurities (AQHA). In my opinion, she is an absolutely stunning individual although a bit tall for her age (versus what we like for Western Pleasure futurity prospects). For that reason, we are letting her pretty much just grow and mature as a yearling this year. We will begin breaking her this fall but nothing "serious" just some saddling, ponying and light round pen work, then turn her out for the winter.

As I watch this filly, I am more and more certain I would like to try embryo transfer with her early next year (2009).
I have a young receipient mare that I could use (she will be 6 years old) and was left open this year (has had one foal in 2007).

My filly was a February 07 baby and so she is approaching 16 months as of June 12. I have already tracked two heat cycles with her (right now currently and back at the first of May) so I think her sexual maturity is already "happening".
She is OBNOXIOUS about it too, sort of like a teenage girl I think she even embarrasses my poor old gelding she is SO "forward". I mean "RANDY baby!"

I am thinking of keeping her under lights after we get thru working with her in the fall and she starts her "holiday break" at the end of the year. Would like to ship her and receipient mare to breeding farm about mid-Jan '09. Would keep receipient mare under lights too as I understand that the mares need to be cycling as "identical" as possible in order for this to work well. Would be shooting for that Jan or Feb baby.

Plan would be for mares to be "done" at breeding farm around the end of March/first of April, bring back home and continue the two-year-old's training.

Any flaws, concerns, advice on this?
Am I taking "chances" with a two-year-old as a donor?

(Message edited by cateowen on May 29, 2008)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1973
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as the filly is ovulating (and bred in a timely manner with good semen of course!), there is no reason why you should not have good success flushing embryos. We typically will have a better flush rate from 2 year-olds than 20 year-olds. :-)

Make sure you follow up your flush with prostaglandin though... don't want an unexpected teenage pregnancy!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 341
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos!

I have never done an embryo transfer before. We would most likely take them to either DeGraff Stables or Gumz Farms in KY as we are participating in the AQHA Kentucky Breeders Incentive Fund. Will depend on the stallion I finally decide on, I'm not certain yet.
Both places have good reps in AQHA and repro work. So this will be done by capable and experienced people.

Most definitely want to ensure AGAINST any pregnancy suprises with the two-year old, THANK YOU for that tip.
We will probably have her on hormone therapy of some sort while showing her so we can regulate her heat(s). From what I've seen of her so far, she isn't the least bit shy about showing all the world that she is in heat. That may calm down a bit once she gets more mature and regular. She just reminds me of a horny teenager right now!

She is really nice (of course everyone thinks their horses are special) and I think if she does as well as we think she will in snaffle-bit futurities it would be great to tell people we have her foal for sale or if we got offered the $ amount that you "can't refuse" for her then we would have a foal of hers already on the ground.

Thanks for you help and reading thru my post.


(Message edited by cateowen on May 30, 2008)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1977
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We will probably have her on hormone therapy of some sort while showing her so we can regulate her heat(s).

Be aware that progestin therapy (e.g. Regumate) can suppress uterine immune response and exacerbate a smoldering uterine pathogenic presence into a full-blown infection. Additionally, be aware that use of exogenous progestins can reduce endogenous secretions of progestins, so one can potentially create a dependency on the supplementation when the time comes for the mare to carry the foal herself.

I would personally prefer not to use progestin therapy. If you feel the need to do so, then at the very least run a uterine culture and cytology, returned with "clean" results, prior to its use. Note the importance of the clear cytology. A culture alone doesn't cut it...
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 342
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would personally prefer not to use progestin therapy. If you feel the need to do so, then at the very least run a uterine culture and cytology, returned with "clean" results, prior to its use. Note the importance of the clear cytology. A culture alone doesn't cut it...

Got it. Thanks Jos. We will see how it goes with her, we aren't even going to think about showing her until Aug/Sept of 2009. Hopefully we can get them out of the breeding farm no later than April of that year and then will play by ear. Will take your advice to heart if we do decide she needs some sort of "heat suppression" therapy.

A lot will depend on how she matures. I've had mares that were just obnoxious about "showing" and I've had some that you would never know they were in heat. Just because she is "obnoxious" now as a "teen" doesn't mean she won't mature some and get better, particularly as we start riding and training her.
My opinion is that I don't personally like to artificially regulate their heat cycles as my experience has been it isn't always successful and sometime you can really end up with a mess on your hands.

She is a big growthy filly and her knees/joints may not allow her to be pushed for the two year old stuff anyway. We may wait until she is 3 just so we don't hurt her in regards to developing leg problems. That will set the tone for how fast we move with her, we will let her tell us. By the time she is 3 she will most likely be a different horse, they typically are.

Thanks again for all the generous help and advice.



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