MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Why is my mare not cycling? Ugh..Jos help

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 3 » Why is my mare not cycling? Ugh..Jos help « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Robin
Neonate
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trying to breed my mare for the second year-she did not take last season on 2 try's-and we know she ovulated the second insemination same day..anyhow, the vet and I have been following her cycles-she started in January and consistent with each cycle 4 months in a row give or take a day or two-she is obvious when in heat, we did not inseminate her last month because she appeared to be ovulating on a Monday with a large 5.7 follicle-we were following that one and couldn't get the semen in time so waited til this month..problem is that she has not gone back in heat-she should be ovulating on Monday (21 days) if she ovulated the day we checked her last month and she's showing no signs of heat at all. She was cultured pre-breeding season and no problems with retained fluid, she had her last foal 5 yrs ago, 16 yr old paint mare-previous owners said she got in foal first time, everytime live cover. Any ideas why she is not in heat? The gelding I used to tease her to left the barn, but she still showed before he came..is this normal?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3542
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Teasing with a gelding is unreliable. Relying on visuals without a tease animal is even more unreliable. If you are not currently ultrasounding her on a repetitive basis (every few days) you run the risk of missing her ovulation again.

What did her cytology show? A uterine culture without a cytology smear prepared and read to support the culture findings is unreliable at best, and useless at worst.

A 16 year-old mare is a prime candidate for delayed uterine clearance issues, so the use of an oxytocin protocol would most likely be warranted. This is even in the apparent absence of uterine fluid.

The fact that she "got in foal first time" previously means nothing. Each pregnancy adds wear and tear to the reproductive tract, so it is quite likely that it be more difficult to get her pregnant on subsequent years. The fact that she has not been bred for 5 years and is an older mare is not beneficial either.
 

Robin
Neonate
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She will have an u/s done on monday (the day she should be ovulating or close to it) and we have been following her cycles with u/s last 2 cycles. As far as I know the vet said her culure came back clear-I will clarify with him on Monday whether a cytology smear was done with it. I have discussed the oxytocin protocol with him and he is not against trying it if requested. Could there be a problem brewing if she has not gone back in heat-what could cause her to stop cycling when she has been doing so like clockwork for 4 months? or is it normal for her cycle to just be delayed?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3543
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You need to rule out a lack of cyclicity first. I suspect you will find she is cycling, just not displaying (as there is nothing to display to).

Note that to completely rule out cyclicity (in the absence of a visible CL or follicle per ultrasound), one would need to perform a blood-progesterone assay (with levels <1 ng/ml) weekly for 3 weeks in a row.

There are multiple possible causes for a delay in return to estrus ranging from simple (such as an AHF) to complicated (such as a GCT) with other possibilities in between. Hence the need to rule out lack of cyclicity first!
 

Robin
Neonate
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vet came today and did an u/s, she has multiple small follicles 2.7 in size, no edema, cervix not relaxed, no CL. Vet said she did have clear cytology smear done with her culture pre-breeding season, he feels she is cycling but not sure why she is delayed in her cycle. He didn't think it was an HAF because she had a normal cycle and it did not have the appearance of one when u/s on the 4/23 (vet thought she was ovulating that day when he checked her) Said we could check her progesterone levels to be sure she is cycling/where she is in her cycle, but I decided to give her another week or two to see if she comes back in on her own-getting frustrated with watching cycles and STILL haven't done AI yet this season. Any suggestions Jos?, Anyone? I don't want to wait to long and the breeding season is over
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3547
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With small follicles present, the other option your vet would have had would have been to give Prostaglandin F. If she had a receptive CL present (even undetected), it would have been lysed and she would have been back in heat in 3-5 days...
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok so my mare went in to full blown heat the day after the vet checked her (previous post above) and the vet came back out today (3 days later) and she has a whopping 41.5 follicle with 3/4 edema..yay she is ready but unfortunately the stallion had already been collected so cannot collect again until tomorrow (Friday) and I won't get it until Sat before noon..vet says he would try to catch her this cycle because she tends to hold onto her follicles-she ovulates typically 46/48 last two cycles-he says her edema and her previous cycles makes him think she may hold on til then...question Jos-how long after ovulation can we inseminate cooled semen and should we inseminate even if we don't know when she exactly ovulated so we at least try not to waist the shipment?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3556
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The standard dogma is that there is a reduction in pregnancy rates and an increase in EED rates with inseminations/breedings that occur greater than 12 hours after ovulation. However, more recent research by John Newcombe suggests acceptable pregnancy/loss rates with breedings up to 16 hours post-ovulation. It should be noted however that these mares received a post-breeding lavage of saline and treatment with oxytocin.
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2012 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos for all your great advice and help. The vet is coming out again tomorrow morning to see how much further she has come so maybe we can cancel the collection if she looks imminent to ovulate early in the day-praying she can hold onto it until saturday I mentioned P & E to him in order to delay ovulation a day but he did not sound thrilled with trying it-any words to encourage him to give it a try?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3557
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing beyond the fact that it works in the majority of cases.

But you can only lead a horse to water... :-)
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vet came this morning, follicle is still there at a 43 and not softening yet (vet said its still hard on palpation) Edema has decreased to a 1/4 (was 3/4 24 hrs ago) cervix is still relaxed..he actually didn't have a problem with trying the regumate or P&E-he just don't have it on hand on short notice Semen is supposed to be here before 9:30 am, yikes what a nailbiter Really hope she holds til then..I do have a question about the atb flush that's given 2hrs after the oxytocin (we are doing the oxytocin protocol after breeding this time-my last vet wouldn't do it)-what atb flush is recommended-how much? And what do you avoid that might be irritating to the uterus?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3558
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, usually edema peaks at around 36 hours prior to ovulation, so fingers crossed on that one!

I'm not sure what John uses for an antibiotic in his Saline, but we will typically use Timetin - 3 to 6 grams. We do a slightly different protocol to John in that we start oxytocin 4 hours after breeding and then repeat oxytocin every 6 hours, including a lavage (if desired) 12-24 hours after breeding (somewhat dependent upon the time of ovulation). You can check out our oxytocin protocol by following that link.
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know its probably a long shot hoping she will wait til morning, but she usually ovulates in the morning and on the 5th day of her cycle so just keeping my fingers crossed she will at least wait til a few hours before we inseminate-I am trying not to think about that or I will have trouble sleeping lol-so you don't think it is necessary to do the lavage 6hrs post breeding?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3559
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The need for a lavage will depend upon (a) if she has ovulated by the time of breeding; (b) how soon after ovulation the breeding takes place (if (a) is "yes"); (c) if there is uterine fluid >2 cm in depth present at 6-12 hours post breeding in the event that (a) is "no".

There are no easy answers... :-)
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our mare was inseminated at 10am-took the vet an hour to get there He says she had ovulated 6-8 hrs before insemination by the looks of the CL on her left ovary-he said not more than that..is there a chance at all that she may get in foal? I know that the oocyte starts to degrade post ovulation so was just wondering our chances-also should I go ahead with the oxytocin protocol so far from the actual ovulation? Won't her cervix close to where the fluid can't be expelled? Advice would be much appreciated
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And just adding here that the stallion's semen was examined by the vet and he said it was some of the most excellent quality he has seen in awhile, he used both syringes-I thought we'd be ok since I was going to use the Oxytocin post breeding-vet will check her on Monday to see if she needs a lavage-I did read your previous answer about post ovulation breeding so maybe we still have a chance
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3561
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can use the oxytocin protocol out to 3½ days post-ovulation as outlined in that linked article.

If the semen is in the mare, there is always a chance...
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much Jos for your advice-it is soooo appreciated..will keep my fingers crossed and will give an update when I find out anything
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2012 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Checked today..no embryo Vet is having me order semen to inseminate on Wed (in 2 days) even though she hardly has any edema and small follicles-he thinks she will go quick like last cycle she ovulated on day 4-good thing is the stallion center will collect the semen on tuesday for me-I am concerned though that it may be premature to order the semen because she has delayed her cycle by a week before and go 25 days between ovulations-any ideas? This will be my last try this year and maybe ever if I can't get her in foal and don't want to waste the effort and money on bad timing
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3575
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2012 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What diameter is the follicle? If it's >30 mm then use Histrelin or Deslorelin, if it's >35 mm use hCG. The mare should ovulate within 48 hours of receiving those, so if you get the semen and give the drugs at or prior to insemination, you should be OK. The only proviso is that if there is no edema, you need to make absolutely sure that the mare is truly in estrus. If you put semen in during diestrus, it will go badly... :-(
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Monday, June 04, 2012 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos, I am having the vet that has been regularly checking her come out tomorrow morning before I actually confirm my semen order to see if her edema has progressed from minimal-she only had follicles in the 2+ range so he thought she was in her first day or so of estrus-last cycle she was at a 2.7 with no edema, and tight cervix-next day she was in full standing heat-three days later she ovulated on a 43 follicle_she's less predictable as the season goes on so he just wants to catch her this time-I want to make sure she is in estrus like you mentioned. I definitely will give HCG if shes greater than a 35 when we inseminate-I am sure he's thinking that she will go 5mm daily like she has been, putting her at a 35 or so day after tomorrow when we get the semen-so if she has edema that means she is going into or is in estrus right? If it was midcycle follicles or non estrus she wouldn't have edema correct? I so appreciate your advice!

(Message edited by marksrn98 on June 04, 2012)
 

Robin
Nursing Foal
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our regular vet came out today and confirmed my thoughts that we were ordering too early-he said no edema, cervix tight, largest follicle 25 (she does not ovulate on her right ovary?) Its a watch game now until I see her come in then we will order-unless we are going back to ovulating on a weekend again..ugh..was hoping the vet yesterday missed seeing an embryo but he scanned the whole uterus and saw nothing

(Message edited by marksrn98 on June 05, 2012)
 

Carol
Nursing Foal
Username: Mariposa_sport_horses

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2012
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your mare and one of mine are playing the same game. We finally managed to get her bred and now we're waiting. Always waiting, it seems....
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3576
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are located in the US or Canada, you might want to consider the use of P&E, which will make the timing a lot easier in most cases (check the article). I would recommend the use of the single-dose biorelease altrenogest or P&E from BET Pharm. You can count back from the mid-week when you want to breed your mare to determine when to give the shot to avoid weekends as well.
 

Robin
Weanling
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol, I wish us both luck with our mares..I can't stand the waiting game, but I would be happy to catch her cycle at the right time this season..been a tough and expensive breeding season..hope a foal will be the result
Jos, we used P&E last season and I would consider it again soon because the breeding season is ticking by..
 

Robin
Weanling
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 22
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Friday, June 08, 2012 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So...my mare finally came in to heat yesterday and I ordered the semen for Saturday delivery and called the vet to come check her-he came out today and I thought she'd be at a 35-40 and she is at a 33-I was close! By tomorrow when we inseminate she should be close to or already at a 38, she's been ovulating on her 4th day which would be Sunday...its a good thing I know my mare and didn't order that semen for delivery yesterday like the other vet had suggested...fingers crossed all goes as planned-will be using HCG at time of AI (couldn't give it today because of the 33 size follicle)
 

Robin
Weanling
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our mare was inseminated today at noon when we finally got the shipment..follicle was 37/38 and edema 3/4-max, which is where I though she'd be-gave 3000/hcg, vet checked the motily of the semen on a little portable scope and said around 40% motility but the semen wasn't prepared like when they check it at the office, we will probably use the second dose tomorrow at 1 as I suspect she will ovulate Sunday very late/Monday very early time frame/40hrs and her normal ovulation time anyway....
questions, how accurate is a portable scope to evaluate semen?
Is 40% bad? and how much motility would be left next day? And should I just keep it in the fridge until tomorrow?
Thanks
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3579
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 06:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Presuming that the sperm are adequately visible, the accuracy of portable 'scope depends entirely upon the ability of the user.

There's an article that discusses shipped semen quality which will answer most of your questions. As far as longevity, there is no standard and will depend upon the individual stallion and how it was prepared for shipment.

If the semen was shipped to you in a disposable container, put the entire container in the refrigerator. If it was shipped to you in an Equitainer, as long as it's not excessively hot where it's located it will be fine remaining in the Equitainer (keep it inside the house or lab, not sitting in the sun outside!!).

Good luck.
 

Robin
Weanling
Username: Marksrn98

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2011
Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok, the vet came back out today and checked our mare-26 hrs post insemination...

-follicle is same size as yesterday give or take an mm 37/38
-no edema after seeing a 3/4 26 hrs ago
-cervix is still relaxed
-he said follicle mushroomed when putting pressure on it

He showed me on the ultrasound that she had 2 small pockets of fluid but wasn't concerned enough about it to do a flush, he feels she will clear it herself and with help from the Oxytocin. He evaluated the second vial of semen and he said it looked better than yesterday..
I looked at it and everything was moving and lots shooting straight across...
Inseminated second vial of semen

Please help me feel better about her chances of getting in foal..questions are-

-Did the follicle stall out because of the 3000 of HCG or is it stalled because she is close to ovulation? She should ovulate by 6am (40hrs post HCG and when she usually ovulates anyway)
-Should I be concerned about the small amount of fluid considering I gave the Oxytocin for 24hrs? And should I have him u/s her in a few days in case we need to flush?
-Should I continue the Oxytocin for the 3 1/2 days?
Thanks
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3580
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This article will answer your questions about ovulation and follicles.

We recommend always following the oxytocin protocol in the event that there is uterine fluid present.



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US