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To PG or not to PG?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 3 » To PG or not to PG? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

kiara
Yearling
Username: Solaris

Post Number: 57
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 06:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone question as title really. We pg'ed four mares last Friday/Saturday, 2/10ths ml 24 hours apart, three of the four mares have progressed well and have been bred yesterday and today.

The fourth mare has progressed from a 28mm on Tuesday to a 33mm follicle today has very good uterine pattern but has a well formed CL on the left. Mare is not showing any signs of heat.

So question is should I PG her again today, tomorow, or leave her be?

We need to avoid the weekend for semen shipment and order soonest on Monday.

TIA

(Message edited by Solaris on April 12, 2012)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3522
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the cervix relaxed?

Some mares do not display estrus, and the presence of uterine edema strongly suggests that this mare may be one. If estradiol levels are elevated (which they would be during estrus) then the cervix should be relaxed - having said that, there are also mares whose cervices do not relax even then.

Although there may be a CL apparently visible ]i{per ultrasound} that does not mean that the CL has luteal tissue present - i.e. it may not be secreting progesterone (which is what keeps a mare out of estrus). CL remnants may be visible for several cycles in some cases, but non-functional. Only a progesterone assay can tell you if there is functional luteal tissue present, which would indicate a need for a subsequent treatment with prostaglandin.

In the event that you do give the mare prostaglandin now, with a 28 mm follicle present, there is a very distinct possibility that the treatment will accelerate follicular growth and that she will ovulate in a couple of days (i.e. over the weekend!).

If this were my mare, I would perform a progesterone assay to determine if there is luteal tissue present (elevated progesterone) and if there is, treat again with Prostaglandin F. If there is not, I would wait and see what Monday brings. There is a distinct chance though that the mare will ovulate over the weekend, no matter what you do ("mare" is a four-lettered word!! :-)).
 

kiara
Yearling
Username: Solaris

Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos vet didn't check the cervix and won't be back our until Monday now so cant perform any further examinations. :-/

So on the basis that it looks like she is coming into season albeit slowly I will chance my luck and leave her be and see what Monday brings, my concern was as you suggested that the PG could possibly escalate the follicle development more rapidly in which case feared she might go over the weekend.

*If* Monday comes and the progress has remained as slow would it be worth while giving her another shot of PG on Monday in hope that it brings her along during the week?

Not sure my vet would know what a progesterone assay is? I don't? Can you elaborate?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3524
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you get to Monday and she hasn't ovulated, then - if it is a suitable sized follicle - I would get the semen and once she's inseminated give her a dose of a standard ovulation-promoting hormone such as hCG or Histrelin.

If your vet doesn't know what a progesterone assay is, you desperately need to change to another vet...!! Progesterone is a standard hormone of the mare's estrous cycle and an assay (in this case) is a blood test to evaluate circulating levels. Follow that link for more details on the mare's hormones.
 

kiara
Yearling
Username: Solaris

Post Number: 59
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 04:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok thanks Jos Initially at the time I had wanted to give her the pg yesterday with the intention of shipping semen for Saturday (Just cant get semen for Sunday / Monday and giving her chorulon at the time of insemination but vet was against it and felt that the PG would rake 72hrs to have a reaction. My understanding was that becuase she was showing signs of coming in season on the ultrasound (not physical signs) was that the PG would propel the development of the follicle as you have mentioned rather than initiate estrous as she was clearly showing signs of coming in. Wish I had followed my own assessment of what was going on now. Oh well it's early enough in the season yet. :/ Unfortunately we only have the choice of two vets in our area and the other has a field scanner (goggles) so can't meas'ure follicles, has to guess sizes and doesnt stock basic drugs such as chorulon as they do so little equine reproduction work. We have to muddle along as best we can or send the mares away which isn;t feesable for the number of breedings we do each year.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3525
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FWIW, mares that return to estrus and ovulate rapidly following treatment with Prostaglandin F (in the face of a large follicle) have been shown to have approximately half the pregnancy rates of those mares treated that come into estrus in the the "normal" 3-5 days window following treatment. So although the timing outcome you have is not ideal, in fact, your proposed plan of treating the mare with Prostaglandin F around the time of coming into estrus would quite possibly have been even worse!!!
 

kiara
Yearling
Username: Solaris

Post Number: 60
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes I guess so but would prefer a 50% chance than no chance at all :-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3526
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Better to use hCG or Histrelin and have an 80% chance... :-)
 

kiara
Yearling
Username: Solaris

Post Number: 61
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She held till Monday 42mm but semen didn't arrive on the Tuesday ... the joys! So back to the drawing board..



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