MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Tough decision with my mare

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 3 » Tough decision with my mare « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

annie918
Neonate
Username: Minimom

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mare in question is a 10 yr mini mare. The timeline is:

**mare was purchased in July 2011 about a body score of 2, very thin
**mare bred to stallion end of july when in season
**mare bred in october when in season
**november we see movement in flank/belly
**november she has one week of stretching, rolling, yawning, kicking at belly
**december weight gain and more belly movement
**speak with previous owner mare was pastured with stallion till april 2011
**January 2012 weight gain and belly movement
**Feb try to ultrasound abdominally nothing but intestine visualized however, vet states ovary looks like she is in season but can't get over the pelvic ridge or get the probe in enough to seeomi, test her with my stallion and no reaction, 2 days later in raging heat.
**Take blood - progesterone is 2.0 and the estrogen sulfate is 745

the mare at this point looks pregnant, has rolling movements like a foal, kicking like a foal, has movements that cause her to flinch, her tail twitch in time with the abdominal movements, and also will cause her vulva and anus to move in and out, also when looking at her from above something makes her ribs move also.

My vet states the mare is not in foal, and while I have seen phantom foal pregnancies when I managed a breeding farm, we never had the movement this mare is having, not to mention you can feel something moving.

No one in my area can ultrasound her through the side of her abdomen nor can they x-ray, if I need to give meds to stop the phantom pregnancy thats fine, however, the movement bothers me becuase if she came to me in foal she would most likely be due anytime now which on one hand could explain the blood work, if I recall the estrogen drops a few weeks before foaling, down to about 300.

I have watched this mare and I just don't know, hate to question the vet, however, knowing how tricky mini's can be just wondering other opinions.}
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 4142
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, several issues here....
1) if the mare came to you with a body score of 2, WHY was she bred the same month???

2) There is no way you'd see movement in NOvember from a mare bred in July

3) if she is coming into raging heat over and over again, she's probably not bred.

4) Her blood hormone levels are not conducive to maintaining a pregnancy.

5) If you have a vet who is somehow missing a foal who would be due NOW, you need a new vet

6) minis aren't really any different than biggies...just harder to palpate.

IF you seriously question your vet, find another vet, or just wait it out.....if she was with the other stallion till april, you should know something in the next month or so.
Post pics of your mare here, udder, etc....and we can try to help you figure it out. I've been breeding minis for years, and it's easy to mistake gut movement for foal movement. But most of them do not act like they're in raging heat when they're bred. I wouldn't give her any meds for 'phantom pregnancy' as that is so rare and probably not the case...that word is overused....
Try to get some video and pics....we'll try to help you figure it out.
 

annie918
Neonate
Username: Minimom

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, it was a friend who initially purchased the mare, she turned out to be to much for her kids, I brought her to my farm in August.

I agree, she would have had to been bred prior to my friend bringing her home.

On one hand I agree, but on the other, there are mares who have been known to come in season when in foal, or, come in a short season right before they foal, since the mare is new to me, I have no idea if this is normal for her, the previous owners stated "well, she ran with our stallion for 2 years, she may have been in foal once and lost it but we are not sure"

Yes, he blood hormone levels are in conducive to pregnancy, however, if she were in the last month of a pregnancy, the estrogen panel is not accurate and in addition, a mare will drop down to about 300 on estrogen prior to foaling so that could explain that also.

And yes, another vet would be nice, hard to get one out in my area.

This mare is not large enough to palpate, heck I am lucky to have found a vet that will do mini's.

Yes, there is a lot of things that point to the vet being correct, however, there are just as many biological explanations also.

SO, I guess we wait???
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 4144
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you have a stallion on site, that is certainly what i would do :-)
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 2461
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alot of time also, when a mare has been down on weight and is gaining they will look pregnant and not be.
Lack of protein in her system will cause her to be weak on the topline and have that pot bellied appearance, making her look in foal.
I dont think a mare in raging heat, and one thats was extremely thin, would maintain a pregnancy, however it is possible. But with the test results, I would be inclined to believe she isnt bred.

Now I am a bit confused with the ultrasound, was she ever at one point US'ed internally or only externally?

Also is she developing any sort of an udder?

Not to sound offensive, But we have had people that have seen/ felt movement in non pregnant mare, and would swear it was foal movement. I guess it was gut movements.

If she is due soon, you would think the vet wouldnt have missed a late term pregnancy. However it sounds to me like he is prolly correct...
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 2462
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I re read your first post, and I think she had both external and internal US...
IF she was USed internal and the blood tests shows no foal, then there is a distint possibility she isnt in foal, IF she were far enough along for the blood work to be low, the pregnancy should be far enough along to see the foal. The foal at that point of gestation wouldnt be below the pelvic rim anymore...:-)
 

annie918
Neonate
Username: Minimom

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a little update....

Yesterday she was up and down, restless, off her feed, standing in the wrong corner of her stall.

At this moment she is in her stall, has a small bag, wax, tail swishing, up and down, restless, pacing, kicking at her belly, biting at her belly and you can totally see a foal moving and kicking,

Soooo I would imaging that within the next 24 hours I would have a foal, hopefully live and healthy on the ground.

That said, yes, the vet did miss this, which is a shame.....

hopefully all will turn out well.
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 2463
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2012 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How is her udder? If she isnt cluing you with an udder and you really think she is about to foal tomorrow, I would be getting some colostrum some how just to be safe.I wouldnt bank on an after foaling udder.
Best wishes and if she does foal would love to see pictures of the wee one!



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US