I board at a small but public barn and we always have to use bailing twine when we tie up. There are metal rings attached to posts and the barn manager puts a small loop of bailing twine around the metal ring. It's irritating sometimes to try and put your lead rope through the bailing twine circle but it's the rules. I found out why the other day when my Very studly 5 yr old TB started jumping around and trying to take off ( mares in season). He pulled so hard and so fast I didn't have time to release the lead rope and the bailing twine snapped before his halter or lead rope did. He's no colt obviously, and it worked the way it should in this situation, so my question is why not use bailing twine? What are the drawbacks to useing it? The barn manager says it's to prevent any property damage and the horse from hurting itself. Are there other alternatives to bailing twine that I should know about? Thanks Moya
The only problem I've seen with it is that horses who think they can break things when they pull back, will continue trying to pull back and break things. If he doesn't pull back often, It's probably no big deal, but you need to be consistent. Either always tie him with something he can break, or always tie him with something he can't. The very worst thing is when a Horse used to the baling twine system gets tied solid and panics. Huge wrecks will ensue.
Moya, you dont seem to have much choice in the matter, but as Megan has pointed out, bailing twine can cause pull back problems. Its not unusual to see ponies getting loose at pony clubs around Australia because they are wise to the bailing twine. Horses should be taught to tie up solid. End of story. You say that it is a safety precaution so the horse doesn't hurt itself 'when' it pulls back ... I will put this to you, what happens when the horse pulls back, gets away and runs onto a road or through a fence or even worse over the top of another person? It happens all to often with run away horses and I would suggest the damage caused to the horse, verhicles and pedestrians could be a lot worse than that of a broken halter or post caused by a horse pulling back when tied solid. This is where I will also mention that horses tied solid should be tied to something that is securely planted in the ground and would not break with 600kgs of force on it (so do not tie it to a metal ring or a fence rail). It should also be wearing a good quality rope halter as well as a rope lead without a catch (catches are normally cheap and nasty and will be the first thing to let go) With the correct equipment even if the horse pulled back it would not be going any where and would correct itself within 30 - 40 seconds of struggling. NEVER TIE UP LONG! and ALWAYS tie up at eye height or higher! Food for thought
Emma - I agree with your statments but the likelihood of tying a horse near a road or similar is very unlikely too - I wouldnt risk it anyway. And in my case I dont show (my mare is retired temporarily) she has never tied since I got her and has done herself damage before I knew of this fault that cost alot to fix, so now I just dont tie her. My foal however WILL be taught to tie. I really feel you have to way up the pros and cons...my mare is old, only kept privately and is never in a public place that I would tie her - it is just to stressful now to try and teach her if its not really necessary.
Can I ask why you should tie at eye level or higher - this will be my first go at tie training and all help is appreciated : )
I read the leading post in this thread and just had to comment. I cannot imagine not being able to tie up my horse and walk away. Tying with twine so that when the horse "decides" it wants to break free just sounds ridiculous. In the scenario above a 5 y/o stud broke free and was running loose, how dangerous was that situation? ( it would seem wise to consider the consquences of the other animals, and people in the area when worrying about how a horse might injure itself by being tied fast and not being able to break loose ) Kim, if you tie a horse with it's head down too low, you risk them getting a leg over the rope, panicing and possibly doing injury to their legs or shoulders. They also should be tied short enough that they are not able to get their head under the rope, that too will cause them to panic as they feel trapped. Teaching a foal to lead is the first step in teaching them to be tied, we don't tie any ours fast until they are close to a year old, a youngster can thrash about and break their own neck in a struggle.
Valid points and very enlightening. I will consider all these points when i build my barn and when introducing a horse to tieing up. I don't have a choice as you noted, but when my horse did pull, he did snap the twine and in that instance i was very relieved that it did. If he had continued to struggle the damage would have been significant. He's a big boy, 17 + TB and the danger he posed when struggling was far greater then him being free. Again, in this instance, for this horse, the bailing twine snapped, he was free but I had the rope by the time he was free and held on to him. Obviously this isn't the case with all horses and all situations, but it all seems to go back to learning to tie properly. I will not train a horse to tie with bailing twine, you are a 100% right.Pulling is wrong. I may still use it with my TB at my new place but that's a maybe and only for him. Thanks for the input
I don't believe in tying with twine either (had a bad expierence, ended up with a mare with tying issues, long story). I also believe tie solid and high. What I have found works is withers or higher. The biggest reason I have found to tie high is that they cannot use a "whip" action of yanking upwards on the rope to break it. Many horses if tied too low will just back up until the rope is tight and throw their head up (we had a mare who was a master at this).
Has anyone had expirience using an inner tube to tie to? I have been thinking about using one for training.
Our weanlings get tied with thing we made out of a cut up inner tube two short pieces of rope and a heavy snap. They can pull on it all they want, and it keeps pulling back on them until they come forward. We stand behind them and keep them from camping out on the end of the rope, but it does most of the work for us. We have a whole set that lets us have the whole heard of weanlings practicing tying up at the same time. Here is a picture of our kids right at weaning where you can see the set up we use. http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/fabmeg/horseregistration002.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/fabmeg/babyHorses2005024.jpg I should also note that the reason the ropes seem a little low is that this is where we expect them to respect ropes tied at as grown up rope horses, not where we think the safest height to tie is. They are only tied at this height under direct supervision, otherwise we move the rope up and shorten it.
Hi moya!! : ) sounds like your man is my mares dream date...
I agree, I will not be training with twine either, but last time she was tied and something spooked her she took out a whole row (about 3 metres) of post and rail fencing from the ground that was about 2 foot into the ground at each post because the twine didnt break - I wished it had! Luckily she was fine and she always breaks the rope and then stands - never runs thank god...that would have been VERY messy.
Look at the facilities you have, the possible consequences and the horse...always judge the horse as an individual...what works for some wont for others and equally what is safe for some is not always the safest option in anothers case.
Moya- if your fella had been taught to tie as a young horse ( as he should have been ) now that he's good sized, it wouldn't be dangerous. I had to deal with a mare a few years ago that could not be tied, in a word, she was dangerous. When at a show, she could not be tied to the trailer, on one occasion, thought the rope was just wrapped loosely through the trailer tie, she hauled back quickly and it became snug enough to offer resistance, she immediatley threw a major fit and nearly pulled the trailer over. Even a mature horse can be taught to stand tied, it's not easy, but I still think it's something that should be done. Good luck with your guy, I'm sure with his size the idea of a struggle is daunting. Have you ever tried tying him with an elastic type tie? they make trailer ties that have a panic snap on one end. That would be more secure than the twine, allow him some room to move but also make him more securely tied than a small piece of twine.
(also, since we have a stable and several boarders we know ALL about damage that horses can do. however, in an instance like Moya's we would take the time to help her teach her horse to tie up safely, for her sake, the horses sake and for the sake of the other boarders and their horses. we have many small children in our barn and property daily, a loose horse or one that's panicing and breaking free could be deadly and a childs life is much more important than a broken rope, post or tie ring)
Hey I agree, and he will be taught to tie properly. I'm sure he was taught to tie, but he's off the track so use your imagination as to what the tracks definition of tie means. I've honestly not had a problem with him pulling, and it hasn't happened since, but I NEVER LEAVE HIM UNATTENDED. He doesn't stand nicely, he paws and moves around if I'm not in his sight line or he's bored. I would never leave him alone tied up, never never never, to many kids/people/horses/dogs around. I'm still learning, and I am going to try the stretchy thing suggested. Heck if tieing up was our only problem I'd be laughing, we've got lots to work on. He's in the middle of a stress founder right now so ground manners are way down on the list. Also he wasn't a loose stud, he was a spooked gelding that acts very studly around breeding season. Still a potential danger should he run. SO for my new barn, what do you suggest? Cemented hitching posts or ?????? I will have a wash rack with cross ties but for outside the barn and areas around the property I need ideas. Thanks moya
Moya- some horses just get more aggitated than others, being a TB, AND off the track, I would imagine he's wound rather tight right from the start. I've found the best way to get a horse to stand tied quietly, is to let them do a lot of it.. standing that is. I've had a few youngsters that paw the ground, dance around.. haul back, etc. The solution is simple, leave them tied. Eventually, they'll figure out that all the extra stuff they are going is just wasted energy and they'll appreciate the chance to rest. Now I don't take a fresh horse and do this, but after they've had their training for the day or been out and exercised, an afternoon or evening standing is good education. (and while I'll probably be castigated for saying this, there have even been times when I've left them stand ALL night) Of course, if you decide to do this, make certain that the horse is in a safe place and that they are tied safely and correctly, I wouldn't attempt this while the horse is still determined to try and break the rope, but if dancing around and pawing is the issue, it's a good way to let them have their fill of it. With regards to the barn, I would put in some good sized posts and reinforce with concrete at the base, having a cross member between the posts will help with the strength issue too. For a horse that size, you'll need something quite sturdy. Good luck, I hope his founder resolves well and that you can help him become a nice calm, well mannered fellow that you can enjoy.
I have to put in my 2 cents....2 of my horses were injured from NOT using baling twice (and tying to a solid object)...at a place I used to board my colt there was a tie on the stall door(had those huge sliding stall doors with wood on the bottom and bars on the top, VERY heavy) well, he spooked at lord only knows what (was night time, but whatever he saw, or thought he saw, SCARED HIM) one night, took off the entire stall door off the tracks and started running backwards...dragging the stall door with him until he finally stopped. 2nd was my TB jumper. was on the wash rack tied to a very solid 6X6 post cemented into the ground at my house, friend of mine came out with a measuring stick to measure her horse and when she extended the stick it made that strange noise and he just flipped out...literally scared, his flight instinct kicked in and there was one bottom like, he WAS going to get loose. he pulled and pulled until the entire post broke out of the concrete. why his halter didn't break, the lead rope, the snap, I have no idea, but he continued to run crazy around with the post still attached to his halter. LUCKILY none of my horses were seriously injured....but now I ALWAYS used bailing twice unless I am teaching a horse to tie (becuase you don't want them to decide they want to leave, and leave) but, in a case where a horse truely is frightened, it doesn't matter if they know how to tie or not, it doesn't matter if they've never tried to get loose in their life, if they are scared, nothing matters to them other than getting away.
so......just be careful for those of you who would rather tie strong. and for those of you who tie with bailing twice, you can try to use 2 loops of it to make it stronger, a horse that throws his head, or just pulls back a bit it won't break, but if they are truely scared or something happens it WILL break loose.
Oh, I will note one more thing about BUNGEES----I personally know a horse whow as blinded by a bungee snapping and coming back hitting him square in the eye, and I have heard of that happened to other horses. I do not like bungees, yes they give, but in my experience if my horse pulls back and feels it giving, he's going to keep pulling until he stops giving, or until it breaks. BE CAREFUL with bungree, not only that but I've been smacked in the arm by one while I was standing infront of the horse that broke it, came back and snaped me right in the arm...OUCH!
so whatever you decide to tie with, make sure its right for your particular horse. Laura
I hate Bungees, I had one in the wash rack that about killed me when a mare pulled back! But our baby tiers that I posted above work a little different. If they do break, and they have once or twice, they break in stages as each inner tube ring snaps which, if you are quick, is enough time to open a panic snap any way! Also because the only metal on them is the heavy duty snap on the halter, all they have to hit you or themselves with is about two feet of heavy wide soft rope. They actually work a lot like the several loops of bailing twine, just with a little bit of give. Situations like the ones you listed above are the reasons everyone on our ranch has to carry a knife at all times. If you have a sharp knife, you can cut a rope pulled taught in less than 30 seconds.
I teach all mine to tie to a big solid old pepper corn tree. No matter what size the horse and how hard they pull they are not getting away and the tree is not coming up! For the horse that is pulling like his life depends on it, a few good smacks around the butt with a lunge whip generally gets them to lean of the rope and they will get the picture pretty quick that there is another escape other than pulling back. I am a big fan of leaving horses tied all day like E Watkins suggested above. BUT only leave them once they have worked out to come off the pressure. I even know a bloke who brings in untouched ponies, he gets a halter on them then ties them to trees and they are then fed and watered and handled at the trees for the next week. By the end of the week they tie better than most conventional horses and are ready to start the breaking process and they ALL turn out as wonderful childrens ponies. Its quiet a sight to see ten ponies all tied to there own seperate tree.
We've never used bungess, for those whose horses are not taught to stand tied, it might be a option though. We've had some pretty good pulling contests between horses and tie posts and the post has never lost. I guess it's a matter of making sure that what you have is secure and safe before you opt to tie fast. Generally, a halter will break or a snap will give first in a real struggle. Pulling back is never a good thing, but sometimes common sense will go a long way towards preventing accidents. (when we measure a horse, they are never tied fast, we'll just hold them on a lead line in case they are worried about the measuring stick) Also, I never bridle or spray a horse with fly spray or a hose if they are the least bit skittish. For those who are worried that their horse STILL might haul back on the line if you visit the Clinton Anderson web site he has a tie ring made JUST for you. It can safely teach your horse to stand tied while still giving it a more secure tie than a piece of baling twine. Having been in the horse business a very long time, we've come across a few horses who have the habit of sitting down and breaking the rope or halter. Given the right tools and knowledge, it can be corrected. We've never had one that needed tied with a string and we've been doing this for 30 years.
We too, never use twine(unless we are in a situation that we can't get ahold of a good rope-forgot something etc. ) We have been in the business to for 2? years. Always use a good lead rope, with a good brass snap. With a good slip knot for tieing. Never had any trouble. The cotton rope we use is pullable through a slip knot even when it tightens, don't use a smooth rope as it will tighten too much. The inner tube thing works well for a problem situaiton or teaching device, we too have used the bungie to help a couple of tb mares get over the pressure issue, and learning to give to the rope. Tb's seem to have a issue with pressure and their heads. The bungie works well, then they get moved to the cotton rope.
Now I understand why I've met so many TB's that pull back, they learned to do it because they were tied with baling twine. I second E. Watkins suggestion for the Clinton Anderson Blocker Tie Ring, it really is a good thing.
I havent had time to read all of the post but from my experience I always tie my horses, young and old with a rope headstall and a 12ft bull snap rope.
For one I hate the nylon headstalls with metal buckles, they are ok for an old horse that is well behaved but anything young are badly trained, if they pull back, thats it you've got a horse to go and catch now, plus a broken headstall with is $12 down the drain.
No I only have the rope head stall and bull snap lead as if the horse pull back it isnt going to break, if they are young they may throw themselves around and bump themselves against the railing and groan a little bit but then they know. Right well pulling back and fighting isnt going to work, I'd better just stand still and behave.
Personally, I couldn't believe what I was reading, a boarding stable that insists you tie a mature stallion to something as breakable as twine? That absolutely boggles my mind.
Are there other stallions there besides yours? (just curious).
I know if I were the owner of another horse at that stable, I would be moving my horse to another stable~ immediately.
I'm not saying your TB is bad or mean, but he is still a stallion, and from your post, he obviously knows it.
I would enlist the help of the other boarders, and approach the stable owner with a little heart to heart talk regarding the cost of replacing crossties and/or posts with the cost of what happens should he break loose and cause a huge wreck.
I should also think that if the owners insurance company knew about this, and undertands the implications of the chaos that a suddenly loose stallion can cause if there are other people working around or riding their horses, he would have some explaining to do.
We always teach our babies to tie solid, we start with strict supervision so should they be silly and throw themselves over we are they to release rapidly, thankfully this has happened only once as we try very hard to imprint them asap and never ever allow them to choose what to do over us, if that makes sense, we will tie youngsters in the cross ties and leave them to stand until they are bored with messing about and protesting and before long we have young horses who will tie up all day if needed and not bother with anything going on around them, we have a new vet who was horrified to see we tie solid but we breed heavy horses and twine to them is nothing, our young foals can break it fairly easily and the last thing we want is a 17hh horse decided it does not want to tie up for the rest of it`s life. As for not tying near a busy road well who would? but on the other hand a loose horse can cover a big distance in no time and they do not think safety if in a panic. We spend a lot of time with our horses and we take time to teach them and although we are very kind to them we have a take to nonsense policy - we feel this adds to the safety aspect for horse and handlers alike. Hope that makes sense!!!
Zoe, I have also taught my horses to tie solid. When they figure out they can't get loose it stops the fussing pretty quick. I have found that quick release knots though safe, never stay tied. I swear every single one of my horses have figured out how to release themselves no matter how I do it! I start teaching my foals to tie when they are about 8 months old or so with supervision. I tie them around one of the barn posts (that is for sure not going anywhere!) in their stall so they are in a safe environment. So far I have never had an issue doing it this way and none of my horses pull back when tied.
Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 07:40 am:
hi. I have been reading this thread and have a question. My mare sits down when tied. Otherwise she is very well mannered, but if there is something she does not like around she gets loose. Some of you sayed that it could be corrected even on an adult horse (she is 19 yrs old). Could you please tell me how? I tryed several things and none worked!. I saw the Clinton Anderson tie but it doesn´t say there how it works. thanks!
Mariana, The blocker tie ring uses a kind of bunjee action. I do not like to use the bailing twine way because I feel that rewarding them for bad behavior only enforces the behavior. Instead I tie quick release knots EVERY time I tie a horse. I have recently aquired a long line that the first 6in is made of bunjee cord. I didnt think I would like it but after useing it on a VERY stubborn colt I really like it. It gives enough to keep them from panicking but doesnt let them loose. Also I would try desensitizing your mare. A common cause of horses freaking when tied is due to the old fashioned method of sacking out a horse for training purposes.
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