This will be the first breeding season for my coming four year old Arabian stallion, I have bred using my experienced stud many times and have introduced two bachelor studs to breeding with disasterous results, (both studs ended up being extremely unruly after breeding). This stud has an outstanding disposition and I would like to maintain that post breeding, he has been kept with older geldings most of his life so is not to studdy unless he is put into the stud pen alone, even then it just takes a firm word to get him to behave, (he hates to be scolded, he's such a baby). We would also like to breed him AI as much as possible but do not have a phantom mare to train him on, one of the vets nearby has a dummy but I am not sure if he will collect for us and even if he does, I don't know how to train the stud to the dummy before taking him over since we donn't have one yet. I have enough mares that I can collect with a mare like I have always done with my old stud, any suggestions on this. As you can tell, I am relitively new to collecting with my own stud and would appreciate any advice or to be pointed toward any references that can educate me. Thanks for all your help.
Safe riding (breeding) and God bless, Kim Magic Mist Arabians
Jos
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 10:25 pm:
Probably the best route for you to go is to find someone local to you that has a lot of experience in handling stallions for breeding and spend some time with them, or even get them to help you with your stallion the first few times.
Habits learned the first breeding season are with the horse pretty much for life. I've had stallions that have come for retraining that are unruly, and it really is very hard to get a significant improvement!
Although a general idea of novice stallion handling can be obtained from reading, there is no substitute for hands-on experience, as there are so many variables in the breeding situation that the same behaviour may call for different responses from the handler in different situations.
There are plans for an inexpensive breeding phantom that has served us well in a variety of locations available on this site by clicking here If you can perhaps work with your vet to get your stallion phantom trained, that may well be your best solution.
Good luck!
Equine Connection
Posted on Friday, December 22, 2000 - 05:15 pm:
The method and expertise used in training a young stallion to the phantom can either make or break his success as a breeding stallion. I strongly recommend that you take your stallion to a very knowledgeable, well-known (check references) stallion facility where he can be properly trained to the phantom and collected. This is extremely important, as his experiences with training and collection must be positive. If done incorrectly, your stallion's breeding success can be greatly compromised. I cannot stress the importance of using very knowledgeable and experienced handlers, as each stallion is different in how he learns, mounts, etc. Training must be positive, fair and consistent, and not carried out in a rough manner.
I don't know if this helps however, I breed Thoroughbred stallions. I have 3 here ranging in age from 3 to 11. As a rule of thumb I never breed in the same area the stud is turned out in. I lead my studs out to turn-out with a chain over thier nose but breed them with a chain under their chin. Studs are very smart and use association to know when it is breeding time. If I were to lead my stud out to pasture with a chain under his chin (which is the way he is bred), he would walk out on his toes with his big stallion neck talking the whole way out. Also, I always either tack my stud up and ride him or just lunge him so he doesn't think breeding is his only job. Just a few ideas to keep his mind in check.
Kelly
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 01:13 pm:
The advice that Jos and the Equine Connection have given you is right on track. I may add that use of an A.V. ( artificial vagina ) could be helpful in your situation. It requires an assistant to insert the stallion at the time that he mounts. You will also need access to a mare for mounting. You can always plan to induce a mare into heat for this occasion.
I also find that this is helpful because you do not have trailer your stallion to a different location for each collection. It also insures that the same person handles the stallion the same way. each time.
Leslie A. (206.63.102.223)
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 09:33 pm:
I didn't think my colt was ever going to come around with interest in the mares. They are all pastured together and he has finally taken an interest but of course the mares won't stand still for him to achieve anything. Should I be separating them during the mares heat cycles and only bring the mares around and hold them in place for in-hand breeding?
The mares had definately tried to get his attention but they are maiden too and I guess once he started actually mounting them that would scare them off.
What day do I count as the first day of the mares cycle? Just when I see them squatting as to urinate but not, turning their butts to the colts face or what? And should they be breedable during all of the time they are exhibiting these behaviors? Thanks Much
Kelly (63.172.47.224)
Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 10:55 am:
I let my stallion pasture breed the first year. The older mares taught him when THEY were ready to accept his advances. He learned how to smell the estrus and know that it was the right time.
I do not think that maiden mares will be as cooperative. The first day of their heat is the day that they show any intrest in the stallion. Most of the time, by the time that they are squatting etc., it is around the 3rd day or so. There will be a two or three day period when they are very hot and easily accept the stallion.
If you do not have an older broodmare to "show him the ropes", then I suggest hand breeding. The maiden mares may well become scared during the mounting process. I use a teasing stallion to familiarize them with it all. Once that they all understand how and when to breed, the next time will be different.
The young stallion can be hurt while trying to figure it out with maiden mares. An older mare will temper his advances and make a willing partner when he gets it right!
I would like some feed-back on wheather or not to ground collect a young stallion. He is a yearling and has not been used and I do not won't him servicing a mare until after some months of riding in the spring, but I have a mare or two that I would like to breed to see if his colts are going to be what I would like to raise and this could give me a years head start or tell me he may not be a stud prospect.I guess what I need to know is if ground collecting will have an effect on live cover down the road.
Lisa Stapleton
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 11:30 am:
I am training a 6 year old stallion to breed. We have used him for "teasing" for several years as he is very well mannered. We have 3 other stallions that I have been collecting on a phantom, all with good results. The 6 year old has been in a pasture nearby and has observed this process with great interest. We have attempted collection, using the phantom and an A.V. three times. We have had a mare in estrus nearby as he needs the stimulation. Each time I have had to start with the A.v. before he would mount the phantom, or we would have been there all day! I want him to learn to mount before the A.V. is applied but he is not doing it. Also when he does mount it's sideways. He did give a full ejaculation last time so maybe he'll get the idea. Any suggestions? Is this just learning behavior? Should we have him try and mount a live mare in estrus that is experienced? The mare he is to breed is a maiden mare so I didn't want to take any chances, we did get a good A.I. ammount from the last attempt.
Anonymous Posted From: 12.148.204.146
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 05:53 pm:
We are anxious to test breed a two year old stallion and have two proven brood mares we could use. Do you feel it is okay to pasture breed at this age and will it turn him into a problem when he is three years old. Should we leave him in with the mares for two months or so? What is the recommended practice. We have the room to do this!
Jos Posted From: 142.177.7.217
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:30 pm:
Lisa:
There is no one "right way" to collect semen! If he wants to ejaculate mounted on the side of the phantom and it can be managed in a safe manner for everyone concerned, then that's the way to go. If you can fine tune him later, then great. If not, then great. It's the collection that counts not the way it's done, as long as it's safe.
People that have a "blinkered" vision of how to do it (i.e. they figure the stallion has to mount the back end of the phantom, thrust 6 times and ejaculate the same way every time) are in for a short, miserable and frustrating career in the breeding shed!
Jos Posted From: 142.177.7.217
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:32 pm:
Pasture breeding at any age has potential for accidents. It may turn out fine, and the stallion learns some manners from the mares, or he may end up gelded, injured or dead from the results of a kick.
I wouldn't risk it personally. Teach him to breed "in hand" properly.
Sandy Posted From: 67.31.170.157
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 03:11 pm:
I have a yearling colt that I would like to start breeding with next year on a few of my mares. The problem is that at this point he still acts like a baby around the mares. I turn him out with the mares for about 4 hours a day and whenever he does go up to sniff a mare or check her out, they pin their ears and he clacks his teeth in submission. I guess what I'm wondering is by letting him be with the mares at this age if he will ever learn the fact that it will be okay to approach a mare, or are they going to continue to teach him to submit to them? I should also point out that his testicles are not very big right now either and I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that he does not show any interest as a stallion would? So, next year when he has had some growth on him, do you believe his behavior will change somewhat or will he always act like a baby and be afraid of approaching a mare? Any input is appreciated.
I've got a 6 year old paint stud that I want to breed this year, however he has not shown a bit of interest in any of the mares around the barn. We've walked mares in full blown heat by him, let him sniff them and he shows absolutely no interest. I'm beginning to get a bit worried. Most people who first meet him, have no clue he's a stud until we tell them.
Any suggestions on what I can do would be great. I am standing him at a barn. My trainer has a stud she breeds every year, so she's experienced.
You may want a vet to test his testoserone score to make sure it's at a proper level...had leased a TB stud yrs ago..only to find they had loaded so much with drugs etc when running on the race track that he basically had a no interest attitude towards any mare in heat or out ...and then we did a blood test and found ..he had a next to nothing testo level. Needless to say he flunked out a breeding school and was given back to his owner who even tryed monthly shots of testo to help... it didn't... To this day, he is pastured with 3 mares and still nothing...acts more like a total gelding. Testicles are right size, but nothing going on. If you tease him with a mare ..does he drop at all or show the good old upper lip response?
he doesn't drop, nor does he do the upper lip thing, he has however gotten nippy with the mare... We were just at a show on saturday and he's actually starting to take an interest in other horses. hopefully all is not lost. i've had suggestions of letting him watch the other stud in the barn breed, and we're considering moving him down so he's closer to the other stud. he just hasn't been exposed really until this year.
How is he around the other stallion? If not reactive and it won't cause the other to go bonkers...I'd move the younger guy down and see if he gets either interested or agressive with the other stallion..... at least you know if you'll get any action out of him. And I would have my vet pull some blood work..we are getting closer to breeding season and you want him at least knowing the "prelims of the deal" .OR know if he won't make it in the breeding pool.
I have to ask, have you owned him his whole life or did you just purchase him? I ask because if he was a stud for someone else and was collected then he may not respond to a mare. Also, if he has been taught to behave unless under some other type of equipment then that may be your problem.( i.e. my stallion is only allowed to talk to mares if his chain is on his halter, otherwise, he is all quiet and nice) If he was with some one else as a breeding stallion, then I would contact them for any information they can give you..
i have owned him his whole life, but he was in training for a couple of years and i'm not sure exactly what they did to discourage any studly behavior. Since i can draw blood on him on my own, i'll do that and run it in to the vet. i'm not sure how the other stud in the barn will react, but i think mine would be ok. haven't tested those waters yet.
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