I was collecting a stallion the other day on a breeding mount and he started to climb up the side I was on until he was on the wrong end of it and slid off. How do I teach him to stay on his end? I can raise it a bit and it is an xtra tall mount. He is a decent size stallion 16.2h. He mounts the right end easily but just is not happy with staying there??? I collect on my own so there is not another person around to help. Any suggestions?
It is harder to correct this problem if there is only one person. Try and stabilize the AV against the mount so that the stallion cannot push it forwards and up the mount. If you are using a Missouri AV, apply pressure to the outside of the AV when the stallion is trying to climb so that it becomes less comfortable for him.
Are you by any chance using a mount with a "cut away" end - the type that is angled vertically at the back end to avoid having to deflect the penis as much from a straight line? We have found that this type of mount seems to be more inclined to make them want to climb, so if that is the case, you may want to comtemplate a change in the mount if it is an ongoing and intolerable problem.
Raising the mount is probably not going to make a difference unless it is too low to start off with. If the mount is too high, the stallion will want to try and get more under his abdomen - and will try to do so by climbing up the side!
Yes, I am using a mount with a cut away end. But when I use to go up to a collection facility he did the same thing there on a mount with no cut out end. Only at the collection facility the mount was inside and up against a wall so he never could get all the up and over the other end.
I am using the missouri so I can try that. If having a second person would make it easier to teach him not do to this what would we do. I do have one lady that works here in the mornings so she can help. Only thing is that not all my collections are first thing in the morning and I am not one to have to rely on other people. Most of the time I am alone. So if I can get her to help what would you suggest?
Thanks very much for the quick respone. Greatly appreciated!!!
The person at the front end applies firm steady pressure on the lead line to discourage from moving up the mount. Do not "snap" the lead, or apply sudden pressure, as that may result in him flying off backwards, which is not desirable of course.
The cut away mount will probably continue to encourage climbing - as I noted above, we have found if there is any inclination to climb whatsoever (and you have indicated that even on a regular mount he is inclined to) then it is worse on those mounts. You might allow him to get a little more sideways on than one would normally so that he gets a little more of the mount under his abdomen - that may help, but of course don't get him too sideways!
I too have a cutaway mount. My stallion has a tendency to put his feet on top of the mount, and does also tend to move to my side. I'm not as concerned about his moving as I am the "foot" thing. It's like he's trying to get a grip, as he keeps grasping, and ending up with one or both feet resting on top. I usually plant my elbow on the side of the mount as a "hip" for him to rest against. That seems to work sometimes. I've thought about investing in one of the expensive covers with hips. My cover is a textured plastic. I've had trouble in the past with him skinning his knees on it, but that seems to have stopped.
I've made the height to your recommendation, although he's worn out a bit of the dirt where he stands. He's 15hh (Arabian), so I wonder if the height may be causing this?
A stallion that places his feet on the mount rather than on each side may be demonstrating soreness, particularly in the back (there are exceptions to this - for a humorous interlude, check out this "fun" little trick that a previous owner had taught a stallion I was working with, that resulted in the poor stallion wanting to do this and this when he was presented with the mount! - he was a little confused to say the least! ).
I would have concerns about my safety with some (many!) stallions about making myself the "hips" against which he can brace...
Planting the elbow may work, but depending upon the cover on the mount, may also result in lost hide on the elbow...! The "French" INRA model AV that we prefer has two handles, which allows one to brace the AV against the mount and stabilize the AV's position somewhat in that way, which can help.
Wrapping the horse's legs, or the generous application of Vaseline to the inside of the legs prior to collection can assist in prevention of sores on the stallion (although the latter does rather make a mess of the mount).
Lower mounts will tend to cause scrambling up the mount more than higher mounts. The apparent height of the mount is often a little deceptive when first looking at it - it may look "too high" - but then pause for a moment and consider the height of the back end of the average mare that the stallion breeds, and in most cases you'll quickly realize that it is in fact an optical illusion (of course, if after contemplation you decide it's still too high, then lower it! ).
I thought you might remark about my using my elbow. I'm not concerned about it, as it's towards the later part of the collection when he is settling a bit, done in an attempt to help him stay on just a bit longer. Of course I'm probably fooling myself, thinking I can hold up a 1000 lb stallion. He's also an extremely trustworthy stallion.
I've filled in the hole he's worn under his mount. That might be helping slightly. He's 16, lives 24/7 in pasture, no formal work, so maybe his back does get a bit sore. He's collected 2 - 4 times a week, starting in March, last year we collected right into November, but busiest this time of the year.
I had the same problem of my coming 3 year old climbing up the side of the phantom when we first started training him. I put an extra 6" of padding on the phantom where the shoulders/withers would be if it was a mare, it acted as a stop for the stallions front legs.
A friend of mine has a small phantom (made from a propane cylinder) which was perfect for her section B welsh stallions but when she got a couple of cob stallions it was real small for them. We never change the height because it is so hard so it is set for the 12.2 hand stallion. Her husband welded a neck on it and we padded it up. The neck worked great to stop the big boys from over shooting it. The cob looks like he is breeding a shetland pony.
Additional thought: what about getting a breeding mount that has the AV recessed into it on the end? I know a couple of people (all petite women) that breed alone (as you do April) and this is ideal for that situation. One person can do it, and the stud stays at the "business end". Contrary to some rumors, NO ONE has had any trouble with these mounts giving any injury to the stud if everything is done properly... and the one gal has 8 different studs she breeds AI all by herself with this style mount!! We bought one ourselves to use with our young colt,but he was trained to collect off the side at a local Vet and that is what he prefers, so we bought the "plug" for the hole on the end and collect him off the side (he has never live covered a mare). I am the one using the AV (Colorado style) while my husband holds the colt, and I have found, as mentioned above, that once the AV is on the colt, if you steady it against the mount it keeps him from moving forward and/or climbing the mount.
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- he was a little confused to say the least! 
He's also an extremely trustworthy stallion. 
