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kim barnes
Neonate
Username: K_barnes
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:15 am: | 
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About a month ago I purchased a 14 yr stallion who has only sired about 15 foals. His use was limited because most of the mares on the farm were related to him. Anyway- I bred him for the first time today and he was not the best behaved stallion around- possibly due to his relative inexperience. He was well mannered until I got about 50 ft from the mare- then his main objective was to rush the mare. I got him settled somewhat, and against my better judgement, I did let him jump the (experienced) mare from about 10 ft away. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get him to calmly approach the mare and mount in a more controlled manner? This horse was purchased from an estate sale, so there is no way for me to contact his previous handlers. |
J.R.Hamilton
Yearling
Username: Cobbreeder
Post Number: 55
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 03:01 pm: |
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How far do you have to walk him to get to the mare??...even 5o ft. is a long way to be patient and walk.
Do you have 1 place you breed the mares specifically?
I literally tease the mare after she's been washed and rinsed and tail wrapped ..walk her 20- 25 ft in the middle outside grassed aisle and then bring my Stallion out... I make him wait and recognize the fact he's there for business and mare is held steady... we walk , haltered with bit in mouth- (he does a parade walk )and we stop him just out of range of any possible flying feet and he romances the mare and depending on her reaction... we get down to business .
If he has to anticipate 200 ft of walking to a receptive mare waiting for him ...no wonder he rushes the last 10 ft.
What are you using for breeding rig on him ? Halter with chain over the nose/ under chin?? and are you wearing a helmet? |
Megan A Brown
Weanling
Username: Fabmeg
Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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It took my stud a while to adjust when we bought him and he went from being handled by a big man to little me, but now he’s an angle. When breeding I run a chain over his nose, that can quickly become a chain under his lip if he decides to be naughty. If your stud wants to rush the mare put him to work in a circle, let that be his punishment and a way to work of some excess energy. Don’t pick on him if he walks politely, even if it’s a little bouncy show off prance, but if he starts to rush make his life a living hell. As soon as he walks let him breed, then tell him he’s a good boy. I’m not an advocate of beating horses but if he is directing that aggression toward you as well as the mare, you need to be carrying a big stick. The book The Stallion : A Breeding Guide for Owners and Handlers by James P. McCall is a great resource and you can read the first few pages on amazon.com, but if you don’t think you are going to be able to get this guy’s respect I’d recommend some professional help before some one gets hurt. |
kim barnes
Neonate
Username: K_barnes
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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I'm using a chain in his mouth for control and I carry a buggy whip. I probably don't need the whip, it's a "just-in-case" precaution. This stallion isn't aggressive in a nasty way- just rushing. His only other vice is biting- he wants to always grab at the lead/cross ties in an obnoxious coltish way, he's not biting at me, just the lead. I don't feel threatened by him at all- the prancing and puffery are no big deal. I'll try the circling- I wish my lunge line had a longer chain, my stud shank is only 11 ft long. Any other ideas?
Oh, I haven't teased with him. I have a gelding that all my mares show to. Would using him as a teaser help? |
kim barnes
Neonate
Username: K_barnes
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 07:33 pm: |
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Another question. I could bred the heck out of him as I have 3 more mares that should be coming in heat in the next few days- I could breed twice a day. Do you think breeding a lot will take some of the novelty out of it for him and settle down some? My other option is to put him in a paddock with a mare that is experienced at pasture breeding. |
Megan A Brown
Weanling
Username: Fabmeg
Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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Letting him pasture breed a mare will probably go along way towards teaching him better manners but be prepared to see him get really beat up. Here’s a picture of my stud after his pasture breeding experience. He's a real gentleman when we breed in hand but left to his own devices he's sort of a rapist. We were at the end of the season and the mare hadn't settled so we just turned her out with Ty, it didn't turn out very well for him.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/fabmeg/IMG_0196.jpg |
Emma
Breeding Stock
Username: Emma
Post Number: 156
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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Kim I bought a stallion just like yours. He was a darling in his old home, she had him out at shows even. When he arrived here he was a raving lunatic around other horses (a puppy on his own) He was rushing all the mares and it didn't matter if they beat the heck out of him he just kept going back for more. I was convinced he would have bred a cow had we have pointed him in the direction. He would walk up to the mares and then take a flying leap from about the same point as your chap and we were left with no hope of holding him.
I ended up doing the lunging thing. I tied a mare up to the outside of the round yard and lunged him, as soon as he was behaving i would call him in and walk him towards the mare. If he started to get silly we would lunge again. I got him to the point I had 5 mares tied up on the out side of the round yard (two of which were in season) and I could walk him past them all. I then brought the mare in the round yard and started again. I can now say he is a lovely stallion to breed with. It took a few weeks of work to get him to come round though. I didn't find breeding him with more mares made him any better, I actually found he was getting worse and the mares were getting to the point where i couldn't bring him near them because they were terrified. Just work the hell outta him until he gives the mares the respect. |
Emma
Breeding Stock
Username: Emma
Post Number: 157
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 09:17 am: |
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Oh and I just wanted to add, Megan your chappy looked like he had a hard time but i can tell you our bloke is a cremello QH and he was litrally black and blue from the girls giving him what for ... Had he off been in a paddock with the mares he would have run them through a fence or till they dropped so please please please BE CAREFULL!!! |
Pita
Weanling
Username: Pita
Post Number: 23
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 05:19 pm: |
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I would use two handlers and two lunglines with chains the one you hold goes in his mouth, and the one the other one holds goes over his nose. That person should not correct him. Only you should, but with two he can't get away from you. Although, be prepared the first time he can't get away he may rear, but this settled two of my rushers down, and it works for safety purpose of both the mare and stallion especially if the mare is going to kick.
Praise him is always a good thing. Good Luck |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 575
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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I would certianly be careful with two handlers and two lines, in a split second you all could end up in a tangled mess. I would never reccommend this way to anyone. You must be extreamly careful if you choose to use two handlers for the stallion. Sometimes when we breed, the stallion will get walked, waiting for the approaching mare. This would not be possible this way as well.
Tease over a secure fence, this works well. He can't rush a mare then. You can then let them tease and talk over the fence, you can see how receptive the mare is. Approach the stallion with the mare not the mare with the stallion. In nature the mare comes into the stallions space not the reverse. The stallion handler has to be ready to pull the stallion down from getting ready to rear, you must act and not react to the situaiton, if the time is not right. It all has to happen just right. Good verbal communication between the stallion handler and the stallion, good respect on boths part, make sure your ground commands are clear and he behaves prior to breeding.
Good luck |
Pita
Weanling
Username: Pita
Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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I have never had a problem with two handlers. Acutally it's been really safe for the mare. lines are snug. Also If something happen drop the line. I have seen more people have problem with one line because they have pulled the stallion and he spins around and get's over the handler line or come ontop of the handler. I guess there is accidents in every instance. My stallion is 17hands. My head literally is at his shoulder. So for us that works good. I always walk the stallion and wait we just work on two sides, but we breed in on end of our indoor so that may not work in your situation. We use the would wait etc.. |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10625
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 09:56 pm: |
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I'm with Kim on this one - 2 lines, especially in inexperienced hands with a bad horse, is in my opinion a recipe for disaster.
When dealing with a rearing stallion, I send the stallion away from me by spinning a loop up the line towards him. Pulling on the line does two things - it unbalances the horse, so it may fall; and it's pulling the animal towards one. The last thing I want when he's up over my head is to pull him towards me! Sending them away with a spin of the line has worked very well for me with some confirmed rearers.
Circling a stallion is also a recipe for disaster, as sooner or later the horse is going to start coming closer and closer to the handler. We make an effort to always turn a stallion away from us when turning, and if he goes to spin on us, we walk him forward a few steps, then back him into position. Circling/spinning is a big no-no!
Size of the stallion makes no difference. We handle anything from Miniatures to Draughts in the course of a year, with a lot of stock horses and warmbloods in there too. A well-behaved stallion is a well-behaved stallion; and a bad one is bad, not matter what size or breed he is! |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 577
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:19 am: |
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I guess I was talking about when a horse is trying to mount a mare in the rearing situiation. Not allowing him to mount unitl ready, you must insist that he stays down on all four feet until he has a full erection and ready to mount. I was not refering to a stallion that one has trouble with constent rearing while trying to get ready for the mare.
I agree that we always push the animal away from us in a turn,this is a issue with anyone that is here on the farm, it does not matter if it is with the goats, cattle or horses, one must always push the animal away from the while turning. It is also the only proper way to show in a ring with livestock... it is a safty issue. We instill this in our youngest clients and adults as well, once learned you never forget--you will save your toes as well  .
Our stallion too was a tall fellow. 16.1 for a paint horse-1300 lbs easy.For me at 5'4 I couldn't see over his shoulders either. He was tought from a early age too. To respect and follow ground commands. Our current fellow is a bit shorter and learning well.
Josh... I would like try to understand your "spining loop" on the lead a bit more. I am confused a bit. could you try to explain a bit more. We really have not had to much of a problem with a rearing horse on a lead as our stallions have been well trained and good ground manners, but for future knowledge I would love to tuck it away--you never know when you may need it.!
Kim |
Claire Sutherland
Neonate
Username: Briarhalo
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 01:21 pm: |
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I too would like to know more about the spinning loop as I do have a 3 yr old colt (not breeding yet) who does tend to dance on his hind legs a bit when he throws a tantrum. I think it would definitely come in handy.....he is 16.2 and I am 5.2. Thanks |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10633
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 01:06 am: |
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You have to make sure that you have slack in the rope, and then with a flick of the wrist you spin a loop up the rope towards the horse. When it runs out of rope to spin up, it will give the horse an unexpected "pop" on the jaw line. Do not overdo it! Often one or two are suffucient. Overuse may result in head-shyness.
Another alternative that works well, depending upon the circumstances, is when the horse is in the air turn him to the side away from that which he is rearing towards. Often the stallion is rearing with the intent of getting closer to something (the mare) and if he repeatedly finds himself landing further away from the object of his desires each time he rears, he will modify his behaviour by not rearing. |
Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 585
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 08:52 am: |
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Thanks Jos |
Charla McCullough
Nursing Foal
Username: Cmdomino2000
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 08:25 am: |
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I was reading through some of the older posts on here and found this thread interesting.
In 2001 I bought my first stallion, who was then 8 years old and had been breeding since he was . He had bred an average of 5 mares per year, under the hand of his former owner who was a bit scared of him and had let some bad habits develop.
The worst of these habits was rushing the mare....I would lead him out of the barn, he would spot the mare, zip past me, and even using a chain through the mouth and the help of a friend to help hold the lead rope we lacked the strength to be able to stop him.
Although he was never aggressive to me, I didn't like being ignored, lol.
A few times of this and I called on the help of a stallion owner who has mannerly stallions for some handling lessons. She taught me to simply lead him out of the barn a few feet, and insist he keep one eye on me. As soon as his attention lapsed, I was to turn him around and march his butt right back into the barn. No matter how many return trips we had to make, just keep on returning him til he figures out he is not benefitting.
This worked wonders, and in no time at all the horse and I had come to an understanding that he was to keep me firmly in his thoughts at all times, to keep some slack in the lead rope (if he takes all the slack away we return to the barn even if he is still walking nicely beside me!) and I can stand him 6 or 7 feet from the mare's shoulder while he waits for me to give a kiss noise/point with left hand towards the mare.
Still... once I give permission to approach the mare, my control is pretty well gone. He's focused totally on her. While this is usually not a problem, there have been a few instances when I would like to ask him to back away from her, and he doesn't always comply. Especially the first couple breedings of the year, when he is even more eager than usual.
Am I expecting too much to want to still have him listening to me then? I hesitate to use the "return to the barn" method to correct this...after all, I did give him permission to approach.
My main reason for wanting to teach this is that I have been observing that most stallion owners take the stallion to the mare to tease them, whereas I have always taken the lazy way out and just led the mares up to his paddock to see if they're in.
Subsequently, when he sees a mare tied to the breeding wall he expects to be able to breed her. I hesitate to change the way I'm doing things if I can't instill a "now please back away from the mare I just gave you permission to approach" cue, because I don't want to get him hurt by an uncooperative mare.
He's not difficult to handle at breeding time now,but still, I suspect that if he could be gotten used to the idea that just because she's standing at the breeding wall doesn't mean she's willing to breed, he would become even more easy & mellow.
thoughts? advice?
thanks, I'm sorry this post was so long.
Charla |
Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000
Post Number: 401
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 04:20 pm: |
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Can you make him back away from a mare not in season and not tied to the breeding wall? |
Charla McCullough
Nursing Foal
Username: Cmdomino2000
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 06:01 pm: |
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Hmm.. I don't think I've tried to do so. Only time he is around a mare that is not tied to the breeding wall is if they are being ridden, and he knows better than to approach her.
But I think I see where you are going with this... teach him in a non-breeding situation and then try to transfer it to the breeding wall once it becomes 2nd nature to him?
Charla |
Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000
Post Number: 402
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 07:04 pm: |
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you got me and a mare that isnt cycling wont put his testoterone levels thru the roof either. once you can safely and constantly approach a noncycling mare off the wall move her to the wall and teach him there to. Then use a cycling mare off the wall. that way you ease him into the learning process. Once he ignores a cycling mare off the wall move her to the wall and try it there. |
