I have a lovely natured stallion that is easy to handle in most situations. HOWEVER, he was extending the other day as I was bringing him in, (a mare an acre over neighed to him) . He answered back, and extended - he was not "ready to go" and a tap on the belly, a flick on the penis, trot in a tight circle and finally a GRAB and pull (toward the stifle did not work. Actually - the grab and pull DID - I ended up wearing a fair bit of semen .... ICK. Any suggestions?? He is not normally a stallion that extends unless it is breeding time, or relaxing time.}
If you were at a football match with your 15 year old son and he was watching the cheerleaders and got an erection would you haul off and hit him in the crotch? If not, why are you doing it to your stallion??? In all probability you would (with your son) draw his attention to something else less exciting, and you should do the same thing with your stallion.
Change the focus of the stallions' attention. You can back him up - not shanking him backwards, just simply backing him - stallions can't do two things at the same time, and you'll find he'll lose his erection. Trot him away from the mare. Do something that distracts him - but don't abuse the penis.
Those of us that have dealt with stallions in the breeding shed that have been handled by people that have abused penises will all, I am sure, reinforce this concept. It results in stallions that are defensive about having their penises handled for washing pre-breeding or for the breeding process itself - sometimes to the point of being dangerous. It results in stallions that become more difficult to handle in the breeding situation, and in the worst cases it can result in stallions that are impossible to breed "in hand".
Now I realise that's not an issue if one is not going to breed the stallion - but in that case, castrate him. Everyone will be happier in the long run!
Jos, I agree with the "don't abuse the penis" statement. Re-reading my post I have realised I am less than eloquent... he WAS asked to move back, trot circles etc BEFORE the "penis abuse" ensued. I was wondering if there were any OTHER methods that other stallion handlers use. I am a first time stallion owner (shows huh?) and castration is definitely NOT an option for this horse. I have since contacted a well known stallion trainer in my area that I am going to work with in relation to respect issues - which is what the extending at inappropriate moments comes down to. He is lovely to handle in every respect (tho he does tend to be too much in my space - a thing I do not allow in any horse) and I do NOT hand serve with him personally - I use an experienced male handler for that. He is quite happy for me to handle his penis at any time (like most men!) and I am quite reluctant to whack and grab at it... I see this as a common method of correction over here... I also see quite a number of VERY badly mannered stallions out in the competitive arena. I appreciate the input.
I too am interested in response to this. My 3 yr old (not breeding yet) was a little amorous the other evening when I went to longe him and then ride him. I literally walked him and backed him up for 5 minutes before he put his "equipment" away. I do not believe in hitting it or abusing it. When I started riding him, all was well, for the most part, and then he lowered again. Did not want to go forward and reared 2x. I then was able to get him forward again, pushing into a trot, assuming it would be uncomfortable enough that he would finally put it away. Well, it took quite a while, but eventually he did. He has been a gentleman since, but I have no doubt it is going to happen again and any suggestions are appreciated. I know Vic's on the nose works wonders but....anything else? Thanks
I'm new here and trying to learn as much about stallion handling and care before I possibly purschase one. Could you tell me more about the "vic's on the nose" and why it's so effective? Does is block the scent of other horses (my first guess) or does it distract? dela
I just posted a very similar question on another forum regarding my 3 year old TB stallion "dropping it" and getting "happy" at a show this passed weekend. Wanted to give some info regarding VICKS, I was told when he was younger to put VICKS in his nose before I took him to a show--there is also another product specifically for horses called Acclimate. The idea behind it is when you block an animals ability to smell, you will automatically disengage their fear mechanism. When their fear mechanism fails to function properly they become more docile and rely upon whatever bond they have to another mammal and/or human in order to survive. The first time i used it, it was like magic. The 2nd show I used it at, it worked for awhile and then started not to work (even though I reapplied it as directed). This 3rd show, I might as well not have used it at all. He dropped at the sight of ANY horse that walked passed. I must have a talented horse because trotting over ground poles, walking him around barrels, zig-zagging thru cones, and hand trotting in circles didn't make him retract. Although he listened to what I was asking, he obviously was not giving me 100% of his attention. I did not, however, try lunging him (making him WORK so he becomes too tired to "get happy") or backing him, which I have been told I do not have to yank the chain to back him, just to keep backing him until he retracts.
The best advice I have been given is to "IGNORE THE ERECTION, TREAT THE BEHAVIOR" I have that phrase IMBEDDED in my brain right now. He's a stallion, he's young, he has hormones, and as someone said, if your 15 year old son embarassingly got an erection while watching cheerleading practice, you wouldn't go haul off and wack him. VERY TRUE. I was reminded the other night, friends of mine were watching American Pie--GREAT flick....My 3 year old stallion would fit WONDERFULLY in that movie....sock and all!!
But I have to remember he is young, he doesn't understand the changes he's going thru just as a 13 year old boy needs to learn and understand. He also doesn't know that its unacceptable to "show off" when he's working at a show in-hand, but hopefully with time and experience and taking him out more and more he will learn.
Right??? oh please someone tell me he can learn! lol I hope he gets over it, otherwise is 100% perfect at home, he is the calmest, quietest horse in my barn (out of 5...3 TBs, an APHA and a quarter pony) he is dead quiet. I hope he learns some self-control at shows.
As a disclaimer, I do not own a stallion, but have had the privelege of watching a young gal at our barn grow up a young stallion of her own breeding.She did tons of ground work. And she takes him to a public areana with other horses and works his butt off. It has helped tremendously. He is broke to ride and has been doing some showing. Consistent work outside of his comfort zone has increased his concentration. He did breed two mares at the age of 3 (last year). This year she limited his breedings to 4. So far he is a perfect gentleman but when he acts up he gets to work!
Jan, thanks for that tid-bit of info. I think that is my problem, that at the show this passed weekend, when he would drop or start to not pay attention, i would either take him back to his stall to "not upset him further" or else try to take his mind off it by walking, in-hand trotting, etc. what I should've done is grabbed a lunge line and WORKED HIM. made him trot, and if he still didn't want to listen (was still screaming or dropping) I should've thrown a ground pole on the circle to make him think and pay attention. but from what people have told me abou youngsters in general (especially stallions, but also for any young horse that doesn't pay attention) WORK is your best weapon. Its not hitting them, or yanking on them, or isolating them (in "time out") its making them work so they think twice about misbehaving and/or not paying attention the next time.
I also think A LOT of my 3 year old's problem is that he's 3. the hormones obviously are the problem as far as his "other brain" but most of his anxiety and "not paying attention-ness" are due to the fact everything is new, he hadn't been out much (my horse trailer was too small for him and it took me a year to save up for a new taller one!) so mostly I think just getting him out of my barn (even if that means taking him to a friend's house, or having a friend bring their horse to mine to school) will help tremendously, I hope! Laura
You sound like you are on the right track. I like you don't want to traumatize or make matters worse. He is still just a baby! But a baby with male hormones! I have 5 sons and 1 daughter. I have draw lessons from raising them. We have always had our sons very active in sports and activities. Physically moving and working those hormones off. It helped them to cope with all the changes they went through and taught them life long values. Not much different than a horse. They need boundries too. You sound like you have a great young stallion and he is luck to have you as his human. Post a picture of him, I would love to see it. I on the other hand was a scardy cat and castrated my colt at 4 months 3 years ago. Never regretted it. It was my first foal and that was enought to learn about. The next time my mare has a colt....maybe I leave him intact??
Niko We have 2 stallions, a young 2 1/2 yr old and a 4 yr old. the 4 yr old is also a working stallion, he is expected to go to shows and such and not be a problem around other horses. If he hangs (or extends) we do not correct him for it, we only require he does not say anything. If you can control the mouth you control the stallion. If he says something we just say no elbow him in the neck or something, just enough that he knows this is not the time. We dont make a big deal out of it, after all he is a stallion and we want his stallion tendencies, he can prance, arch his neck, he just cannot say anything or act up. this is our big guy http://www.avalanchefriesians.com/showgallery/equistarshow05-20-06E.jpg
I think it takes a special horse to be a stallion also. Hope yours is beautiful! I sometimes am frustrated when I see people wanting to keep their stallion a stallion, just so they can say they have one, or just so they can breed because its "theirs" and "they want to". When really, the horse has no bloodlines, or poor conformation, or at worst, poor temperment. I got lucky with my TB, in fact I kept him intact his first 2 years because there was a (very slight) chance I was going to either send him into race training, or sell him as a racehorse, and to that they pretty much need to be colts. However, he was just huge, way too large to start at 18 months, still too large to start at 2 years. I did ground work every single day of his life, and now he's 3 and is doing fantastic. His temperment at home on a scale from 1-10 is a 1. he is a hair over 17 hands right now (*should* mature a solid 18 when its all said and done), his bloodlines are great (Alek Trebek had owned his dad when I purchased him, hence his stable name Jeopardy") and his movement thus far is VERY nice. If any of these things would not have been "EXCELLENT" I would've had him cut. And I still may, he needs to Xray clean, I do not believe in breeding any animal (dog, horse, whatever) with a genetic problem such as bad hocks, hips, whatever so if his Xrays come clean he will be good to go...of course then the semen evaluation, but hopefully that should go ok. The biggest reason recently I want to keep him in tact is I already have people wanting to breed next year, if there's a market for him, fantastic. If there wasn't, what's the point? SO, we'll see! I don't know how to post pictures...hmm....and I don't have any of him on my website just yet. Will try to do that today!
Thanks for the replies... Stud season is looming here again (yay yay!!) and hormones are definietly rising. Laura this statement - "Ignore the erection and treat the bahaviour" is possible the best thing I have been told with rergards to stallion behaviour. Incedentally, oh yes - he is nice. 17HH irish sport horse extremely well bred. I am a big believer in gelding (we have so many inferior stallions here in Australia). My boys nuts would be off in a minute if he was not "quality" or had a tractable nature.
Hope parr - NICE
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