Boy I know what it is like to have one that does not tie, I have a 10 year old that still wont tie! or one day she will the next she wont...Look into Charles Wilhelm, I have seen his technique, seems to work, I am trying it on mine that wont tie this spring when the ice is gone. I have learned since this one that you teach them to tie YOUNG!!! the last 2 foals I have had I taught to tie as soon as they knew how to lead and give to pressure while leading, so by 3 months i could tie them to a post and trim/file their feet ( i am a farrier on the side, went to school for it ) sure is a lot easier than tryoing to teach an older one. Does the colt pull and fight violently shaking his head and rearing? or just not know what to do and pulls steps forward, turns, steps forward, etc? or does he just lean back with pressure and stand with his head outstretched? I do know that you need to get the horse to lead well and respond well to giving to pressure before teaching to tie, another thing to do to see if he is ready to tie and give to pressure is use a long lead, carrying the rope walk behind him and put the rope around his rear and walk up to his other side, now pull pressure on hte rope, does he spin out of it and face you, indicating he is yielding to pressure, or panic, if he panics he does not know how to yield to pressure, start there ,maybe. good luck!
a good thing to use for teaching to tie are bungine ties, or innner tubes. there are some bungy trailer ties that work well at TSC and I sure that they can be found at other places. this allows the horse to move a bit without getting stopped all of a sudden and then they seem to learn that there is a end to the rope. same concept with a inner tube. fasen a inner tube sucurlery to a post and then use your lead attached to the innertube. the innertube does the same as the bungy tie, it gives a bit so not to scare the horse. Both methods work, I have a tb mare that hated to be tied and it has helped her a ton. The elastic in the ties gives enough for them to move with it giving back to them too, they learn that there is pressure at the end.
Another way to teach a horse to tie, this works before hand, and helps teaching them to lead as well, just let them drag a long enough lead in a safe paddock. The horse steps on the lead and can't move as it pulls their head down . They learn real fast how to give and take and boy does it do wonders as they stuggle with themselves instead of dragging you around and they have enough strength to stop themselves as well.
My stud colt does know how to lead right now. I haven't try to tie him yet. I wanted everyone ideals first.We handle this stud daily. We imprinted him at birth. Thanks MELISSA
the dragging the line even works if you have a lead line broke horse, yet hasn't tied yet... they learn that it stops then when it gets shortened or steped on(although they don't understand whats happening it still works, because there is no give when they step on it)... Its funny I had a colt that was messed with alot yet he didn't like the stopping on the rope, wouldn't stop on the lead while walking with him. We let him drag a lead rope for a couple of weeks . He got to the point that he learned to avoid the lead as he got tired of it when it was stepped on it and his head would go down... but after this two week period he stopped like brakes on a car when you asked him to--alot less trouble then him not wanting to stop for us.
Just want to cautionyou Melissa on the colt and your children. They can be sweet but their minds can change in the blink of a eye. Just be real cautious and even though you don't think your horse-any horse for that matter won't hurt you , they are a animal built on fear. The are a animal of prey and they will respond as so.
I teach mine to tie a little bit differently. But not unlike every one here the horse first needs to know how to give to pressure (saying that i have tied unhandled/haltered horses this way as well and they have taught themselves to lead and be soft to pressure within a day.)I have long pieces of sailing/yachting rope, which I attach to rope halters very securely (not with a metal clip) I also have a very big old solid tree and i simply tie them to it firm. I give them enough slack to start with so there is a slight loop in the rope (not enough to let them get there legs tangled) and i stand back and just watch them (do not leave them out of sight), they generally sit down and have a bit of a struggle BUT as soon as they move forward the penny drops and they realise that is the way to get away from the pressure. The unhandled ones I leave tied up for some time and just water and feed them there, the handled one I will leave tied for a hour or so and then take them back to there paddock and do it again the next day. I don't like using ina tubes or bungi lines because it teaches the horses to be ignorant to pressure. If you use this method the horses are so light on the end of the lead and you can tie them to anything safely. All my horses tie up solid and I never have a problem with pulling back. DO NOT USE BAILING/HAY TWINE TO TIE HORSES TO!!! (you only teach them to pull back)
We have never had trouble moving a bungy tied horse to a solid rope for tieing. It gives just enough that the horse learns to give to the littlest of tension, and does it slowly. \
Wow... I am amazed what I am reading here! No bailing twine?!? Most racehorses will never be tied with out it!! I totally disagree! It is extremly dangerous to tie a horse up with out an 'emergency escape' so to say. Especially one that does not know how to tie yet! Have you never heard of horses freaking out, flipping over and breaking their necks? I would much rather have a horse break the twine and run around the barn than have a broken neck!!
i only use babling twine with a horse that does tie well adn if i am tying to a non solid object (round pen for instance) that by pulling could move and scare them/or and cause harm. I have learned do not tie a horse that will not stand tied with poor equiptment because a time or two of getting away and that is what they do. My 10 yr old mare who will not tie (or one day will one day wont) has broken metal clips, lead chains, 4 x 4 hitching posts, nylin halter buckles (not the new fancy break away kind either), this was all by time she was 3 years old, now when we practice tying i put 2 or 3 leads on (w/ panic clips) and a brand new nylon halter. she is a violent head shaker, and sits down to pull. It has been 98 years and no luck tying her and feeling comfortable to leave her yet, that is why this spring we are going to try the charles wilhelm style, cant hurt! Oh, and she fives to pressure awesome, you can lead her with super slack in the rope and the slightest movement to hte side she is giving! she will spin out of a rope, she will drop her head if yo put your hand on her poll, she is by far the smartest and quickerst learner i own! she is a total sweetheart...till you tie her!!! evryone else is just fine...so iguess i could ask any advice for that one? I have since her taught my babies to tie...lots easier...(i did not try with her till she was allmost 2..i was young and dumb,,,just thought horse automatically knew how to tie!)
My mare stands brilliantly but does no tie well - If I put a rope on her so she thinks she is tied I can do anything but if I actually tie her and she feels the pull and spooks all hell breaks loose - Im surprised shes still here after the last one! She has snapped the metal clasps on headcollers and numerous leadropes when I first got her and just recently she took a whole line of post and rail out the floor! She stands afterwards and lets us get her free, never runs away but now I never tie her, I just loop the rope across posts or into a haynet. I have to agree with the bailing twine thing - I dont know anyone who doesnt use it (apart from the shire horse people)but again, Only once they have already learnt to tie. Also, when my mare took all the post and rail out the floor - she was on twine, it just never snapped. Lesson learnt though... The foal will be taught to tie as soon as I can, and I will more than likely get professional help in, I know how important it is to get that right after my mare!
When we tie a horse we tie with a slip knot so that there is an escape to get the rope untied.... Never do we tie in a knot that can not be undone. Never had we had any trouble getting a horse undone if they flip themselves (normally a youngster) with the slip knot. A good tug on the rope and they are undone, no need to have any knife handy to potentially hurt yourself or animal with.
I couldnt beleive it kim - I had tied with a quick release knot and on twine - Neither the twine snapped or did I get time to pull the rope loose. And I was standing right there! Thankfully she is fine and is good mannered enough only to pull in fear (and engage her brain again), not to take advantage and run.
Kim, that is why we will not use twine, when it gets pulled tight you can't pull it loose even with it in a slip knot, as it tightens down so much. A good cotton lead rope works best. For our cross ties we even have them tied in a slip knot at the o rings and not fastened on . That way while in the cross ties , we can pull the slip knot as well as the quick snap if needed. This is what has worked for us for many years. Actually twine is very strong as long as it is in good condition and not detereated (sp ! ) condition it is hard to break. We don't use it (unless in a emergency situation and thats the rope thats available)because it gets so tight you can't get it loose, as well as a few horses like to chew on it then your s.o.l. and whats the use in tieing them then! they chew themselves loose in no time. Just our experiences. What works for one, may not work for another. And depending on ones bad/good experiences will depend on how things work for them too.
The quick release knot helps, but I have seen them pulled far too tight by a strugling horse to ever get loose. Quick release help most of the time, but not always.
Years ago I was using an indoor arena at a neighbours and one of their rules was that horses must be tied to a piece of twine. I had my mare (who tied beatifully) tied to the twine and two dogs came in fighting, she cranked her head around fast and broke the twine. She didn't go anywhere, but since then she will challenge anything she is tied to. I guess because I am used to doing cattle work and camping in the mountains where when you ride you are a long way from everyone and everything, I always carry a folding pocket knife. I have only ever had to cut a horse loose once, but I have fixed tack in the middle of nowhere many times.
Kim k: you mention that you don't use twine because when it gets pulled too tight it is too difficult to get it undone. Well, how would you use the twine? Most people put a loop of twine on the horses halter and instead of attaching whatever you tie the horse with to the halter you attach it to the loop of twine. You also said that you are always able to undo the slip knot even if a youngster flipped over. Wow, that is hard to imagine! I have had horse pull back and wasn't able at all to undo the slip knot. If you would have tied the horse to a piece of twine it probably wouldn't have flipped over in the first place. The argument of 'once they learn to get away they will always try to' certainly doesn't apply to most horses. If the horse happens to spook and break the twine I just tie them back up again and keep doing what I was doing in the first place. If the horse is that panicked about being tied up that all it wants to do is to get away ... most likely it is not ready for this step in its training process.
Lindros, I don't use twine Never had a problem undoing a slip knot if tied correctly. I don't have problems with a horse trying to get away. Lindros, you seem to want to attack any of the things that I have said on this board. These things are things that have worked for us for 20 years and more. You don't like them thats fine , you don't need to attack me or my posts. I don't find a need to use twine,as a good cotton lead works great for us. Twine is made for hay and straw and thats what we use it for. Yes, always able to untie a slip know when tied correctly. and if there is any additional problems that is what the quick release is for as stated in the above post. Normally any type of panic is not due to being tied up at this point it is due to newer thing being done to them, I don't attempt to do any other training until the horse knows how to tie and accepts it. Then you move to the next phase of training.
This board is not a board to be attacked by others, don't continue to either. ATTACK of Lindros. I have given my reasons for any thing that I have posted as asked for by the board moderator explain your reason for doing something or not doing something , and I have, don't like it leave me alone.
Kim k: I don't think that I have been attacking you in any way!!! You stated your believes, I stated mine. Clearly YOU have a problem with that. Obviously your way of doing things works for you and mine works for me. I just didn't understand what you were talking about when you said that the twine usually gets too tight to undo. That's why I asked you about it yesterday! That's all!! I still don't understand what you mean though... If you could explain it to me that would be nice. IN MY EXPERIENCE I have not been able to untie a slip knot after the horse pulled back. Melissa is probably a novice and therefore I thought that it might be interesting for her to hear different opinions. Especially if she is not as experienced with horses (as you are for example) and perhaps she can't judge how the horse is going to react when she ties him up for the first time or maybe she wont know what to do if the horse panics ... what will happen then. What if her horse struggles like crazy, flips over and breaks his neck?! Just my thoughts! No harm intended!!
I have taught horses to tie and it isn't hard, if they don't know anything about it. If they know to pull and pull, it is really hard. My way may take more time, but it works. Simply teach the horse to lead as well as you can in the stall, then dally the rope around a post, make sure there is something in front so the horse can't circle the post. Hold the end of the rope and brush and move around the horse. Eventually pull alittle on the rope and the horse will stiffen and get alittle upset. Give about 1/4 inch, of rope. click to them like you do to get them to walk and hold. The little give you let them have will calm them for a millisecond,allowing the clicking cue to get into the brain. By holding the dally, you prevent the horse from breaking anything, or getting away, and you are in pretty good control. From there you just keep doing this and eventually you sack them out and then they will tie. It isn't hard. It doesn't take too long. All you are doing is teaching them to step forward when they feel pressure. If they learn this correctly, you are good to go. The problem then becomes when a person leading a horse pulls the horse to get it to walk. Then the horse becomes confused, because when tied, if they feel pressure they relieve it by stepping up, but when leading they feel pressure and start to move and the person keeps pulling, they get really mixed up. This happens alot when people try to teach a horse to jog or trot out beside them and they don't teach it from back to front. Also, One time at a show a horse was tied to a trailer with an awning. The wind caught the awning and it fell on the horse, who panicked. Aluminum poles, chairs, and awning fell on the horse, and several of us went over to untangle it before it broke its neck in panic. One very strong man could not undo the properly tied fat cotton rope which was tied in a slip knot, so he cut it. The owner came back and was INFURIATED that the rope was cut. Never mind I was standing there holding the horse for 20 minutes, and others put the chairs and disarray back into some kind of order. Ungrateful people, HUFF! But my point is that if a horse pulls hard enough in a nylon halter with stainless buckles, it won't get loose. I prefer leather halters and brass hardware, including a brass halter cheek snap, which will always unbend if necessary, and then slips over the horses ears if the horse is still panicked. This is better than them dragging the rope, post, fence, gate, whatever with them if they panic. And it does take more than once for a horse to learn to pull back if it is successful once. Usually what scares it is more upsetting than the reward of getting away. Once won't undo a well tie-trained horse. But once if things don't let go will kill or ruin a sound horse if it falls when tied, and things don't give. Lori
Lindros, I flet like You picked apart my post and what I stated. Every thing that you think I have done wrong and that it shouldn't work because it never has for you. I don't tell someone here that something that they do won't work for them when they have apparently had success with it. Like I said , I give my experiences and what has worked and why and don't tell someone else that they are doing it wrong when I am here and they are there. People are just looking for ideas and suggestions on different ways of doing things. I havn't told you not to use your twine, My statement to Kim Winters the reason i don't use twine is that even with a quick release knot, the twine get too tight and you can't release it. Read the post it was in reference too...
With that said thats where I leave this post and will not comment any farther. I give my experience as I also absorb all others as you gain much more experience allowing yourself to see what others have already figured out.
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 06:51 am:
I agree with KIMK- I will not use twine either, a slip knot has always worked for me also when teaching a horse to tie, The reason I will not use to teach is because I have one who knows if she pulls hard enough she will get away, she has gotten away almost everytime she has wanted to, other times she stands wonderfully...just depends on the day, as that is the only thing that changes about me tying her. In the last year she has gotten better but i still would never tie her and leave her or not tie her unless it is securely fastened adn cemented in the ground if it is a single post. she stands wonderfully on a lead line, rides wonderfully,knows voice commands, leg cues, will drop her head with pressure at the pole, she halters and bridles wonderfully, the only thing she does not do is tie, she has been fighting it for almost 9 years!!!! If I tied her to twine shed be even worse! The others that tie fine yes I could use twine if I wanted to, but what we do her is tie a piece of twine to the hitching device and leave a circle to tie to, then tie the lead to the twine, so if the horse gets away it still has a grab rope so if it is truely frightened it cannot run crazily around and you cant catch it. That is just what works here, everyone has the option to try new things and not try others, DO WHAT YO FEEL IS BEST FOR YOUR HORSE AND YOUR INDIVIDUAL SITUATION...EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION!!! lets all remember that. Good Luck!
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 07:40 am:
For sacking out, I start with a hand towel and I rub them with it, then I begin to kind of wave it around them, like you would if you were rubbing and saw a fly you wanted to chase off of them. I do that all over, then I switch to a larger towel, a bath towel and then a swim towel. I shake it out like a rug beside them, put it over their back, slide it off their rump, put it over the withers, pull it over their head. Swoop it around their legs, in one area, out the other. let it drop. pick it up and throw in in the air. letting it drop on the other side. Most of the time, I will progress to a plastic grocery bag, but that is all it takes and they don't much care about stuff around them after that. Makes saddling and winter blankets, etc. completely acceptable to the horse. Just an old term,, but I don't' use a sack, well, just the plastic grocery bag later on...but you can use a lariat or anything you think you want them to be comfortable with. Lori
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 08:21 am:
Thanks lori - Yeah, the way I have heard that term used is slightly different, not so much build up to the plastic sheeting/grocery bag. What you have described though is something I intend to do very early on with my own foal (when it finally arrives!) Thanks for going over it for me
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 02:45 pm:
Hello to everyone who has be giving me great ideals about teaching my colt to tie.We have always brought the horses already taught to tie. This is our first foal born here on our place. I am trying to learn everything I can to teach him right. The stud colt is a very sweet colt so far. I will let you all know how is doing.If you all would like to see him he is listed on the site. www.photobucket.com/albums/e329/MBhorses his barn name is Little Man. thanks MELISSA
Anonymous
Posted From: 66.211.216.133
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 02:54 pm:
Just to add my 2 cents: I have had horses learn to pull back from getting loose just one time. I agree that most won't make a habit of it unless they get loose multiple times but I think it can start with just one instance. We had a 3 year old that had been tied since he was a weanling that pulled back in the cross ties one day and got loose. It took us a year to get him tying again and he is still not 100% trustworthy. He broke halters, leads and even neckropes. What finally worked was a heavy duty bungee rope. Its a very thick black rubber and was meant to be a crosstie so was long enough to double. When he sat down on his butt it just snapped him right back to the wall. He only tested it twice and now ties pretty good though we do use the bungee or a neck rope if he is tied to the trailer or in a new place. I really thought this colt would never tie again he was so bad. Hope that might help someone else that is having a problem. I think everyone has good ideas on how to teach tying and most horses that lead well will respond to any of them!
This is a different idea, I just never thought of it - but it seems like such a simple solution.. I saw this picture on another forum as I was browsing and I would love to hear what your thoughts all are - any negatives you can see, as at the moment Im seriously considering it being a good training tech when I come to do it. Id appreciate all comments - and kim k, yours too as this is slightly different to what we were discussing earlier in the topic and I know you have a great amount of experience, Im grateful of anything anyone wishes to share!
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 04:18 pm:
Oh my! I didnt realise it would be that small! Let me try this..................................
Nope! I cant change it - But look closely, there is a rope that goes behind the pony so that as it steps back the pressure on the rope tightens the butt rope and encourages the pony to move forward again - I realise that this could cause the pony/foal to feel claustraphobic but if its been halter broken correctly and had alot of desinsatization to things around it legs and some games etc that shouldnt be a problem right?
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 06:42 pm:
Kim k: well, I guess you will not respond to this post... I truly think that you are being overly sensitive here. Just because I 'questioned' your method you have clearly gotten mad at me. Just by telling me that you are not going to responed to any more of my posts seems pretty silly to me. I am just trying to have a discussion with you - THAT IS ALL! I asked you twice what you mean by 'I don't use twine - even with a slip knot - because it gets too tight to undo. That is why I asked you HOW you use twine. I mentioned that most people put a loop of twine on the halter etc. So obviously you don't have to undo anything because the twine just breaks. I guess you just think that I am trying to make you angry (for whatever reason). However, it was just a SIMPLE QUESTION!! I don't know why this is sooo difficult to believe. Just a question. Aside form that, it seems like be work with totally different breeds. By the way, I have an extremly open mind. However, if something seems dangerous to me I question it. That is all I was doing - seriously!!!
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 08:48 pm:
Kim W. Yes, it is a method that works well in certian situations. We have used in many times. The biggest problem that we would have with this is if the horse decides to sit down, but still in those situations a couple of tries and it still seems to work , we have used the method when you have a horse that is not real used to the trailer and is thinking about it , maybe has a foot in the trailer and backs back out , sometimes the extra pressure from a rope is jsut what they need, although we use it as last resort.
Melissa, Good luck with your colt, Gotta love those paints ! Make sure you stay firm with him and don't play games with him.
Thanks kim - when you use it for trailering, now it seems like when you use the long lines to push the horse on to the trailer - Its very difficult all of this, deciding where to draw a line on whether you are encouraging or insensitively shoving the horse forward! Im begininning to wonder why I ever thought Id be good at training a baby!! What you said was very helpful though - I think I will continue with what I was going to and If I have any troubles I will go on to this - Like I said on another post, cross that bridge when I come to it! Only with the way my mare is about tying - I want to make sure I get this right.
Thinking about this - I suppose the lines are already behind the horse though - I could lead the foal with the butt rope on for a while and then do trailer loading with the butt rope still on afterwards (i am aware Im a bit ahead of myself, but Its worth thinking these things over in advance hey) That way it wouldnt be seen as an extra push to the foal or a 'quick you must go in' just the normal forward aid - he can still go back onto it and If I didnt tug then it wouldnt tighten, is that right? (and I keep automatically saying he, when I really want a filly - Do you think its a sign!; )
You have a good idea Kim. And for the word he, it is a general term seeing you don't know what it is just like some people use the word colt, just meaning baby with no gender attached to it.
If all this talk is for a baby that is up and coming , and the mare loads easy, get them both in the trailer at a early age for the baby , even if its just for a ride around the block....For us what has worked is a stock trailer or a open horse trailer. Tie the mare if that is how she trailers and then just let the baby roam the trailer, If mom dosn't trailer well, then take the baby for a ride at 4-6 months of age, again, don't tie the baby, giving the baby free roam of the trailer. Take the baby up to the trailer and even into the trailer while just in your yard. It is advisable to have the trailer attached to a vehicle while doing this. Don't just load the baby if the trailer is unhitched--for safty reasons.
Also Kim, when you go to start leading baby on a lead line it works well with two people one for mom and one for baby. Just walking with baby and not trying to lead her right away, keeping up with mom. Once she is used to someone walking by her side then start showing her that you have her on a lead, naturally every once and a while she will try to get ahead of you and then tighten up the slack. If you really have problems with leading the baby, Let mom help out(providing mom will). I had a baby that was huge and strong. Was not willing to walk on a lead. We had a big king bred foundation mare(she actually came off the king ranch !) She was built like a powerhouse. Anyways We attached the lead to mom and let mom do the work. Baby ended up figureing things out as he wanted to be by mom and he learned real fast the give and take. got lots of suggestions for working with a baby, I know that this is off the topic of the board so ,if you want more ideas you can email me . Let me know, I don't know if my email is posted here ?? can't remember
Just to add here, don't tie a horse up that pulls long enough so that it can flip itself and tie it solid to something that wont move with rope that WONT break. I use a tree which is over 100 years old ... no pulling that out of the ground, I use yachting/absailing rope, IT DOESNT BREAK and i use a solid rope halter which is made out of thiner yachting rope, no buckles/clips on anything everything is tied up tight. The horse can sit down all it likes, stand behind the darn thing with a lunge whip and if it pulls to much or looks like hurting itself give it a flick behing the rump. I had a 15.2hh 18 yo QH gelding that was built like a tank (probably weight near on 750 kg's), he had shredded that many halters with his previous owner and had pulled back his whole life, he had broken lead snaps, pulled and snapped posts, he had done the works. And he would just pull till he got loose. He only did it once with me couldn't get away and after about 1 minute of constant thrashing and pulling he gave up and just stood there, he never hurt himself or looked like hurting himself. After that you could tie him any where you wanted. Bailing twine teaches horses to pull back.
But on the same not - My girl is nearly 18 and I am quite happy that her manners are such that I dont need to tie her, i feel it would do more harmm than good in this instance. She has some pain in her poll and I have paid good money to a chiropractor to make it comfortable for her so that I cann stroke, rub and brush that area now - There is no way Ill have her pulling with her head/neck now. At 18yo, weighing up the pro's and con's, somethings are just better left alone...?
We teach them to tie by simply wraping the rope around the post in the round pen and holding it when they are still weanling. For a yearling, especialy one that leads, I would tie a rope to a strong TALL branch with a loop tied firm at the down side about your colts ear level. then tie him with a be nice halter or rope halter and lead. Tie the lead to the rope with the small loop hanging from the branch. This will alow the colt to move around some but not much and give to the pressure of the tree. When you tie use a Bowlen knot. So not leave him unattended though. You dont want to tie him to something without give as you can cause permanant neck damage to him. What ever you use..make sure that it is tied at least eye level or a bit higher and not slack enough to get a foot over as I am sure you know!!..
Hello, I tied my colt for the first time Sunday. I tied him to a tree for about a hour. The colt pull a little at first then bit at the rope a little. After that he stood there. My Children rode their horses in the pasture he watch them. He did very good the first time.What is the next step? THANKS MELISSA
keep tying, and test him while tied, if you think he understands the yield to pressure, then sack him out while tied, using a tarp, sack, ropes, etc tillhe understands he cannot move away and does not pull. awesome, hopefully all your handling will have paid off!
I'M DESPERATE FOR SUGGESTIONS!!!My colt is 10 weeks old tomorrow and has been imprinted from birth. We are having a few problems with his training..... I have tried many things to try to stop him from biting (and read as many posts on this board as I could find). I don't hand feed him and I have tried holding his nose (which makes him rear up), pushing him away and trying to ignore him, chasing him around, waving my arms and making noise (like a crazy woman) to try to gain his respect, and having a dressage crop with me which I "swat" on the ground in front of him when he tries to bite. I have marks/bruises on my arms from him and I'm afraid I may be doing more harm than good. He seems fine for a few days and then when I'm brushing him or just entering the stall, he turns and bites..... The other issue is with his leading. He has been haltered every day since he was born and usually the haltering goes okay (except for when he tries to bite). However, when we try to lead him for turn-out he runs toward the paddock with me in tow. He leads fine in his stall so maybe we just need to work more on yielding to pressure???? It's just hard to do any work with him until we get this biting thing stopped. PLEASE HELP!!!!
One of my babies was very mouthy too. He was my first and I was always worried I would do to strong of a correction and "damage" the poor frail thing. What a battle it was. What worked really well for me was a flick on his muzzle anytime it got close. Not a hit but a flick with your fingers. Try it on yourself. It hurts for a second and gets your attention, its quick, and did the job for me. I did not wait for him to bite. If I am brushing and he swung his head toward me, flick. He needed to learn personal space boundries and since another horse would bite back and that is not on option this worked. Did not make him head shy and he stood like a champ to get his halter on. No more turning the head towards me. As far as the leading, I would carry a croup and a light tap on his chest if he got even one step ahead. If he wanted to continue to rush and crowd me we had little tune up on ground manners and I had him back or do circles until his attention was focused on me and not his idea of lets get out there and kick up my heals! I would always lead him all the way into the turn out and do a little lead work and only only when he was standing quietly I would unhook him and let him play. Hang in there, don't get to frustrated and keep at it! Good Luck!
Peggie, agree that the flick of your finger may help, a quick nudge with the elbow, you must anticipate it happening and react quickly so he associates the repremand for the biting. Make it unpleasent for him. They say if you make a horse move thier feet that they are submitting to the other horse or you in this instance. You may need to go to extreems of stones in a plastic bottle, something to startel him. We had a pony once that the only way to get through to him was with a pop bottle. We tried every horse trick in the book, kind and human way, tried to understand what ever could be wrong. We resorted to good firm physical disipline. ONE good time is all it took.
With the rushing to get turned out... try backing him all the way, make him learn patience. He will want to do it the easier way once made to have to work at it. Start with walking him out , and then take him back if he wants to run out and make him back it out. show him that walking is better than work, as backing that far is work to him.
Use the mare and tie him to the mare (only if the mare will work with this for you)the mare has alot more power to make the colt walk and not run. We have a good foundation bred cow mare that holds her own plus more and when the colts get to strong for us we tie them to the mare and let the mare do the work as she respects us and knows that she is teaching the baby something.
Thank you so much! I'm off to the barn to "practice" turn-out and ground work..... Can't wait to finally find something that works!!! Thanks again - I'll keep you "posted"
we tie the mare then tie the foal be side her we start at about 5 months we never leave them alone if he pulls back we touch him on butt with hand so he goes fwd they stay like this for 5 min first time then 10 next then 15 next if nervous foal we stay at 5 min for a few times just what works fro us
I use a trailer tie, that is elastic, and tie the lead rope to the safetly tie on the end of the trailer tie. And whenever I am out with the horses and can keep an eye on the youngsters I pull them out, pick up their feet, hose them off, tie them up, etc... My colt used to pull back pretty bad, but now he is fine :D
Well, I see that most of these posts are quite old, but very informative. I might as well add my two cents, although I am a novice.
I was never afraid to tie my new horse, but she ended up with a very bad muscle tear when she struggled so hard she stretched out the unbreakable halter.
The vet said it would be best if she were never tied again. This is a disappointment, because she is wonderful in every other way, but not tying is obvously inconvienent and even creates safety issues.
But I happend to figure out a way to work with her without her walking away as I am brushing her, etc. I drapped the rope over her back, almost like a rein, but not so she could get tangled in it or step on it. She stood very nicely. When she started to put her head down to graze, I just asked for her head, and got it. It was wonderful because for a few weeks now it has been very hard to groom her.
So for anyone who is having trouble of that sort, this might be an alternative. Not ideal, of course. But if your horse is not entirely sound, and you are worried about an injury, this might be an alternative.
I may someday send my horse to a trainer, just to get past that, but I don;t know. The fear of re-injury (and it could be her last) makes me hesitiate to even try. But I have a baby coming and all of the suggestions are helpful. I plan to work with it the minute it drops to the ground!
Hi Cheryl, I have a mare that pulled back everytime, and people in this forum recommended the clinton anderson tie ring, it really worked well for me, have you tried it?. It lets the rope slide so they donīt need to pull hard to feel released, without getting released, they just get more rope.
Mariana...I agree with you!! The Aussie Tie Ring or Blocker Tie Ring (the same thing) are life savers. I have taught every weanling, yearling, two-year old, as well as older, flighty horses to tie with these rings. There are three different settings that allow the rope to slide (or not slide). Yes, I have had a horse set back on them but the difference is that the rope slides and immediately lets the horse know that they can move their feet. I have never had a horse pull more than three feet of rope through the ring before they calmed down and actually walked forward off the pressure. The slippage allows the horse the feeling of not being confined. The immediate release results in an immediate calming. (I thought this was kind of backwards thinking at first but was surprised how awesome it really works.) I taught two yearlings to tie last year and I have never had either truly set back. Yes they walked back a few steps but never reared and pulled backwards. Now they tie perfectly. I never have to worry about horses flipping over or breaking their necks. It's just beautiful.
For a biter (peggy) the best thing is a currycomb on your hand. Point your palm at him and when he nips he wont get soft skin. He may just be a nipper, my 3 yr old colt is beautifully behaved but he still throws in the odd nip just to be cheeky, the only thing you can do is be ready for it, be careful, and keep trying!
To teach tying I dont use twine the first time. Nice comfy headstall, firm place to tie up. Tie up for a very short time while brushing or feeding - make it enjoyable. Short sessions. Mine all stand like statues now and I tie them with twine but for the first few times if they learn they can get away they'll keep doing it.
Not that Ive said anything that different to anyone else but at least you know its a common method!
I do things quite a bit differently because I have found my method very effective. I get my mare to teach the foal to give to pressure within the first 2 weeks of age. They are haltered every day. When they get used to having it on and off, they are then walked out with the mare. I take the leadrope and put it across her chest. The foal feels the pressure on the rope but is instinctively driven to follow mom. The mares usually want to get out and go to pasture, so then tend to be a bit pushy with the foals and would be quite willing to drag the foal, which is a no-no, so I always have to intervene and slow them down, so the foal has a chance to feel slack on the rope immediately when it steps forward! The foal will resist but on its own will quickly learn if it steps forward, the rope tension eases. Reward. Doesn't take more than 2 days and they've got it. Then, I transfer this idea to leading with me beside the mare, but still get help from the mare (via her chest). It's like building on blocks. The light bulb goes off within 3 to 5 minutes and they never look back. They're reliably leading and giving to halter pressure by one month. My husband leds the mare, and I lead the foal behind the mare.
From there, I transfer it to tying. The first attempt is only once they're reliably giving to pressure at about one month of age. I remind them of the lesson, by gently pulling on the rope giving immediately when they step forward (usually by this point, they step forward immediately). Then I snub their nose right up to the tie ring. They can't get leverage to really pull if they're snubbed up and thus it protects their neck. Because they've already been ponied by mom, they have the basic building block to giving to pressure. They might try to pull once or twice, but can't get a lot of leverage to hurt themselves, so they learn to stand there and really they figure out this is the same thing as before, just we're now standing still. Mom is parked right next to them, usually eating. So, I've never had to teach a yearling to tie, because I've done all the work right when they're really little.
Regardless of age, the first step is always giving to pressure. The second step is extending that "pressure" to the tie ring. It must be done in such a way that the horse never gets free and never gets hurt. If they break things, they learn to tantrum until they break free. I would snub your yearling right up to the nose on a heavy-duty post with a heavy-duty rope and halter that will not break. Position the heavy-steel tie ring at nose level. Too low exerts too much pressure on the poll and they could get their feet over top of it. This is a disaster.
Once the horse learns to stand while snubbed, then gradually let the rope out longer and longer and raise the ring to ear-height. The higher the better as it distributes pressure over the entire head and less on the neck bones. And they can't get their head wrapped under the rope, which is another trick they'll try to give them an excuse to pull.
Tie the horse every day and walk away doing various other chores, but always watching. The horse must learn to stand quietly as part of the process. When they stand quietly tied, tie them while grooming and picking freet. Tie when the farrier comes. Tie when the vet comes. Tie them at every opportunity you can. Don't offer an opportunity for a real spook when tied as you will then find they back track in their training progression, (such as using clippers the first time or hearing the farrier forge light up the first time).
So you have lots of ideas from a lot of people. Find what works for your individual horse and go with it. But some of these other tips might work with other horses.
Sorry, saw the post about biting a little later. Get serious with your colt. When he bites, timing and good aim are important. If he tends to be fearful, put a very, very hard smack on his upper neck or his chest the very second he reaches for your arm. If your colt is a bold one, put the solid smack right on the nose, followed by very strongly pinching his neck on the muscle where it joins at the point of the shoulder to back him off and put on your "ugly, mean, angry face" and even snarl at him showing your teeth. You are acting and reacting simultaneously.
Better to react strongly the first time, than a bunch of little reactions which are obviously not working. Because this has gone on now for a prolonged period of time, you will now have to convince him that you really mean business and it will take several good strong measures now to really get the message across and he might periodically test your resolve over the next year or so. For others who might be reading, if you strongly react the first time, you probably won't have to deal with for a prolonged period of time. I don't even let my newborns try to mouth me. With newborns, they get an immediate sharp flick with my fingers. That's usually enough. With older youngsters, a smack is okay, strength of which depends on the personality of the horse in question. Never present an opportunity or temptation. Keep your arms and hands away from the nose at all times. That soft velvety nose is a magnet for people to touch, but don't touch until your horse is confirmed reliable about keeping its lips and teeth to itself.
If you hadn't noticed, I'm pretty emphatic about it. Even my one month olds know some of these basic rules. And training is a progression and they're allowed to make mistakes because that's how they learn!
Think of it this way. When momma mare reacts to him biting, she flattens her ears, glares her eyes, stiffens her nose and bares her teeth. She may kick him hard. She may bite him back hard. Or she may bully him with her body.
Humans. Behave the same way as momma mare with your youngsters. Harden your eyes, snarl your teeth, "bite" with your hand-smack and drive them off you. YOU MEAN BUSINESS. The clear message to convey is: "I'm not your plaything, BACK OFF AND KEEP YOUR TEETH TO YOURSELF!!!!!"
You're not abusing him, just letting him know in no uncertain terms, unacceptable behaviour merits an uncomfortable reaction.
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. The other issue is with his leading. He has been haltered every day since he was born and usually the haltering goes okay (except for when he tries to bite). However, when we try to lead him for turn-out he runs toward the paddock with me in tow. He leads fine in his stall so maybe we just need to work more on yielding to pressure???? It's just hard to do any work with him until we get this biting thing stopped. PLEASE HELP!!!!
