Thanks for reading and any helpful advice left. I have a 13yo quartre horse X stallion who I have owned for roughly a year. He is the most gentle and quiet and docile thing I have ever come across, even the kids ride him with no trouble. Gentleman to handle on the ground, ride and take to shows( but does whinny quite a bit and loudly sometimes at the shows)
Ive just started to cover him over my mares and ive come into some slight problems.
His first mare was a 16yo who had foaled before, this was his first mare he has ever covered as previous owners never used him for breeding.
For starters he was prancing sniffing the mares face and neck, got extremly excited when sniffing the back of her front legs then he was erected and mounted. It took 3 mounts before he got the idea to ejaculate then he was returned to his paddock (runs in a 6 acre paddock) she was served the next day, he did his little bit of role play as I like to call it then he mounted the mare and served her, then hes returned to his paddock ( he is on a halter and lead (no-chain) and there is a handler for the mare as well.
When it came to his next mare who was a maiden mare he roleplayed the first time (about 2 minutes) then mounted. But any other servings to this mare he just jumped on straight away before role playing ( tends to scream a bit and run straight at the mare fully erected) then returned to his paddock. The first 2 mares both fell in foal straight away.
We have another mare who is in season (this is right now today), shes had 6 previous foals. As soon as I take the stallion out of his paddock he his extremly excited, yelling, pulling towards the mare, I tried teasing her over the fence for starters to see if she was on, problem is as soon as I got close enough to the fence he would rear up and try and mount her with the fence between them.
Luckily though none of the 3 mares so far have been upset when he just runs at them and mounts, all 3 of them have tolerated his behavior and stood quietly still while be served by him. Also he is not flared before hes on the mare so no trouble with that kind of over erection just over excitment im not happy with.
He is usually a gentle man to handle in all ways and has respect for me and does what I tell him too but as soon as I use him for teasing or breeding he is fully erected and is whinning and prancing, pulling towards the mare when Im trying to hold him back. well basically not obeying me, coming into my space, bumping into me in his great rush at the mare!!!
when she was on I got the stallion to tease her over a fence first, one time he reared up and tried to mount with the fence in between them but I just managed to pull him back and got him to continue teasing her, once she started preparing her self I took the stallion out of his paddock and straight away he was rearing up like there was no tommorow I was unable to hold him back he just ran straight at the mare and served her, then I returned him to his paddock and same with the mare
I now have my brother handling him as hes too strong for the stallion to drag around, when hes taken out to the present mare and goes to just rear up and run at her he is able to pull him back, control him. We are trying to train him to do a little bit of role play with the mare first, this is without a fence between them then attemp to lead him behind her and let him mount, once finished returned to his paddock.
he is still very excited and my brother pulls him away several times as even when we are trying to get him to talk to her first at the front end hes tried to mount her head.
Also another time in his rush he reared up when I was leading him and he came down and knocked me in the back with his hoof, knocking me to the ground luckily I wasnt hurt too badley but could of been, he didnt do it deliberatly just unfortunatly I got in the way when he was being an idiot but all the same it shows he has no respect for me when breeding and he got a good whallop over the front on his chest with the lead rope and growled at.
I wouldnt be overly concered its just we are standing him to a couple of outside mares and 2 mares will be joining us soon, and I am a little embarrased about his manners and I am worried as to what the mare owner will think or say.
I want to get this corrected any tips to help me calm him down and get him to relax would be greatly appreciated. I have been reading through previous posting and will be aquiring several books and studying on the internet(there are no other studs in the area so I dont have any experienced stallion handlers to come and train him). Also there are other horses present could this be affecting him?
we have limited paddocks and we have the stallions paddock with 2 sets of double gates, one set is the set we take him through for breeding the other set is for other general handling, riding ect.
His breeding gate is opposite the mare paddock and there gates are opposite his about 40 meters away. When a mare is on we take her out and take him out and join them in the area thats in between there 2 paddocks but there are usually 3 or 4 other horses in the mare paddock and they are usually present at the mares gate when this is all happening.
Should I have it so as there are no other horses present?
also should it be aloud to have any other people present (ie mare owners) when this is all happening apart from myself and brother??
Thanks for reading this really long posting but I like to let you know all of the details and any info is greatly aprreciated
Thanks heaps!
P.S also it doesnt matter to him wether the mare is in season on not he'll just jump it anyway. Also when we first put him with my shetland pony gelding he tried several times to serve him ( the shetland is a bit of a numskull he just stood still while the stallion was mounting him and trying to serve him as hard as he could but it just wasnt happening for him! the great clutz,(he eventually got the idea and left the pony alone) so also he tries to mount anything, in season or not mare or gelding.
Hi forgot to add also, ive had him by himself for about a month as ive been working the shettie and had him in another paddock should I put the shettie back with him for company?
also I was thinking I have recently got an old broodmare 20yo connamarra x angloarab, roughly 14hh who has been a broodie since 4 yo(so she would have been with at least 12+ stallions) and is a right old b**ch, she is a dominate mare, who lets everybody know whos boss, anybody goes near her food, shes gets stuck in to them, chases them off, lays the ears back, lashes out, bites, anybody gets in her way ect ect, they all very quickly learn to stay out of her way and not p*ss her off, should I risk running her with my stallion to teach him some manners as she will put him in his place. hes 15hh
Okay I have to ask why are you breeding a non reg stallion? Just asking as there are a good number of reg stallions that are reasonable in their stud fees. Now then getting to your problem. Many young horses are fine under hand until they get a taste for breeding. If they are not mentaly mature enough they can become quite unrully. I have an electric fence between my stallion and mares. He respects this little wire much. If you are still wanting to breed this stallion then I suggest you find someone that has the expertise of handling a breeding stallion before you or a loved one, or one of your horses gets hurt. Many folks use a stud chain or lip line inside the upper lip to use as a nerve twitch. Personaly I think you should not breed him as he sound like he is not handling the situation well and I fear someone will get hurt. There are profesionals out there that will not breed a stallion that acts like that and these are horses worth big bucks..but its not worth getting hurt over...
Anonymous
Posted From: 61.68.143.109
Posted on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 09:23 pm:
I am using him for my own breeding interest and decided to offer him to a limited number of outside mares as there were quite a few people interested in using him as he is a simply stunning stallion. Also he can be ridden no-hassle past mares, colts, even mares in heat he only looses him self when breeding. Also he is registered! and his stud fee is cheap as biscuts, he looks alot better and performs better that some stallions that are at a $600 fee im standing him for not even half of that. also he is not a young horse he is a 13 yo stallion who is standing his first season.
Firstly, it is important to be aware of the fact that behaviour during the first few breedings will set a pattern for life, so if he gets away with unsuitable behaviour at that time, he will be expecting to be able to get away with it forever. Consequently, before even looking at the problem and possible solutions, I would strongly encourage you to get someone who is good with stallions (and believe me, that is not the same as being a good trainer of non-stallions!) to assist you.
Next, let's look at his normal housing - you had indicated that he had had his pasture company removed and then restored. It is important to understand that stallions are very social creatures and removing their ability to socialize can result in negative repercussions (which I suspect is part of what you are seeing).
To be honest, I hesitate to make suggestions specific to the situation, as I cannot see all of the factors associated, and to make a suggestion incorrectly may result in more or worse problems. One thing that I would encourage though is removing the stallion from the breeding situation if "bad manners" are encountered. In other words - if he is pushy and almost (or completely!) out of control, put him back in the stall - don't breed. Leave him there for a while (30 minutes to an hour) and then bring him out again. As before, if he is bad mannered - back to the stall he goes. Repeatedly putting him back in the stall at the same point in his bad behaviour each time will result in him associating that behaviour with going back to the stall, and he will modify it. The trouble is that you need to be on the ball enough to be able to point him in the right direction for correct modification, and that is where experience comes in to play...
I would also put something "stronger" on him in the way of headgear. You indicate that he is dragging you around - there is no excuse for that, and putting either a bridle on (with a suitably long lead line) or a halter and lead line with a chain on it will go a long way to assisting with greater control. We like to use a chain through the horse's mouth in a breeding situation only. That signifies to him that certain behaviours will be accepted (vocalising and "strutting" are fine in the breeding shed, but a no-no at a show for example). Some people get concerned about the chain being in the mouth, but simply because you have it there does not mean you need to be using it - I view it a little like spurs. If one is a good rider, one can wear spurs and only use them when needed. OTOH, if you don't have them on and they're needed, they don't serve the slightest bit of good hanging on a hook in the tack room!
Overall, I would strongly suggest that you get some assistance in person rather than over the Internet. You are at a point where someone (horse or human) could easily get hurt, or you end up with a stallion that is badly behaved where he could be perfectly well mannered. Unfortunately, as you are now finding, handling a stallion in a breeding situation is not the same as handling him in a showground situation.
I did not mean to offend you. In your post ou stated that you had a Quarter mix stallion so I assumed he was not reg. But I believe Jos and I agree that you need help before someone gets hurt. As a stallion owner and breeder I can assure you that stallions do not like ANY change to their eviroment. You need to establish a routine. Have a different halter or bridle that is used for breeding only and teach him the cues he needs for breeding. Trust me, if breeding a stallion was easy many more folks would do it. He needs to learn that even during breed times that YOU are still in control at all times. He may not be a young horse but this is very new to him and he may not have the mind set needed for a stallion. My stallion was bred the first time this year and he is three. I can stand him in a pasture with simply my hand on his nose(without halter)and my husband will bring a mare in and realease her. My stallion will not MOVE from under my hand until I release him. I am the only one that handles my stallion for a breeding and when under any head gear other than his breeding halter, he is not alowed to talk to the mares period! As Jos stated, what he learns now will stay with him. There may be a reason why he was not previously bred. He may have been to hard to handle for someone else and has already learned somebad behaviour.
Hi Gynna, I am interested in the methods you employed to teach your young stallion to be so well behaved.I have a young 3yr colt registered/lovely mov't/ great bloodlines-unbroken- who you can sit on in the paddock with mares in heat without saddle or bridle. We have started hand serving him and although he is respectful of us he has started to try to retaliate when the mare shows she is not in season. If she shows signs of kicking then he has started to spin on a ten cent piece to lash out at her-very dangerous for horse and handler. We do not want to destroy his confidence, how much pressure should we apply to nip this in the bud. What type of fence is the safest to tease the mare over and how long should you give her to decide whether she will accept or not. He started serving in the paddock so he has learnt respect the hard way. What behaviour do you you allow and what behaviour is a no no. My business partner was working in a top stable in Germany for 3 months handling the stallions but I am interested in your approach. Thank you, Lucy.
Lucy, I have a stall that is double walled that is right next to my stallion. Both their stalls have a large turnout area with an ajoining 5 1/2 foot fence. The fence is a non climbable type woven fence so that if kicked it will stretch some but its heavy gage wire and since its woven and not welded there are no parts to break off. It also has a hot(electric) wire 6 inches from the top of teh 5 foot fence as well as another strand of hot wire on the stallions side about 4 foot up the fence and 6 inches into the pasture. This keeps him off the fence with his head up but he can sweat talk and lip their legs adn see if they are responsive without injury to any horse or handler. I use only 1 halter and chain on him for breeding. He knows that he is alowed to talk to the girls when he wears it but NEVER alowed in anything else. Make sure that the breeding halter is very differnt than any other halter that you use. Get him use to walking by a fence with mares loose and handling him in his non-breeding halter until he learns to mind his manners. to keep control on his head for yours and his protection use the stud chain. I started my stallion with it over the top soft part of his nose(down low on the soft cartilage). Hook the snap to the outside ring and over the top and through the inside ring then out the bottom ring..when he turns his head give it a good stiff yank along with a stern verble NO walk him some and tell him when he is doing good. If this does not work( my stallion is a quick learner and HATES being scolded by momma)then try the chain on the inside of his upper lip strung from teh outside ring to the inside ring( like a bit) but place it between the upper lip and gum line. Be very careful if you do this as there is a nerve that runs alone there so you dont have to jerk the line very hard to get his attention. And again walk him around mares with him between you and the mares until he learns to listen to you not his hormones. I started working with my stallion as a two year old around mares and he did not start his breeding career until this year as a 3 year old and was kept down to only 4 mares three matrons and the last one was a maiden mare and he was great. The mare owner was impressed with how well he behaved. I think too alot is his personality. There are not many studs at three yrs that I would trust to breed a mare in pasture and then take a 2yr old child out in that pasture seconds after the stallion has bred. My stallion just loves people..And no one but me ever handles him for breeding. Stallions like routine!
Let you stallion sweet talk the mares. You will know when they are ready as they will stand for him next to the fence. If you are not sure then dont take teh chance on getting yourself or the horses hurt. Some folks that hand breed use breeding hobbles or tie one foot of the mare and have someone hold the line. I dont use either as they can cause a wreck if the stallion somehow gets caught up in one. Some mares are onlly responsive ONE day so you have to tease daily or twice daily but in a safe place. Some big farms use a proud cut gelding to tease mares and some folks let their stallion do it. I like letting my stallion talk the mares in as they get use to HIM and his scent. if you would like to email me I'm at mom2bigdogs@hotmail.com
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