I have a stallion who is wonderful in every way, easy to handle, easy to collect, has a busy training and competition schedule. Competes successfully at the upper levels with a pro but is kind and forgiving enough for myself and groom to ride and get lessons on. He adores people, loves attention, and in general is worderful to be around. Hauls/stables without issue with geldings and mares and while working is not at all distracted by anything. We're just starting his oldest foals and they're exactly what we'd hoped for. breeds approx 10 mares/yr all AI. Now, the problem, he will not tolerate other stallions. We've had two stallions in the barn for the last 6 yrs, and at one point early on they did get loose together with my stallion beating the snot out of the other one. The other stallion is retired and has not been used for breeding. After the battle the older stallion seemed content with his status as low man on the totem pole and the two boys established a grudging tolerance for eachother, although we would never stable them in close proximity to eachother. One is kept at the far end of the barn, mine is on the same side of the barn, but about four stalls down with a feed room separating them. We added a third stallion to the mix a few months ago. a small tb off the track who is not at all studdish, never been bred. He's kept two stalls down from the older stallion, with two geldings in between them, and is next to the feed room, which separates him from my stallion. They can all see eachother down the front ailse, and the stallion pasture( apporx 5 acres) is about 20 ft behind this row of stalls. My stallion goes out in the AM and the older stallion uses that pasture in the afternoon. The new stallion is turned out elsewhere. Now, the retired stallion is acting very studdy, yelling at mares and charging the pasture fence behind my stallion's stall to challenge him. The whole place is in an up roar. My stallion is very agitated, and has broken multiple boards in his stall and pasture with his angry outbursts, although is still very mannerly when handled and ridden. The mares are sensitive, spooky and overreacting to everything. This mess ended up in a huge battle last week. The farrier came and apparently unaware of the situation pulled my stallion out of his stall, cross tied him as usual outside of the older stallion's stall, who was out in the pasture, but the new stallion was still in his stall two doors down from the cross ties.. Not really a good plan, and for whatever reason the barn staff didn't feel the needed to supervise, probably because my stallion is always very well behaved. Well, not this time. The older stallion began pacing the pasture fence in front of where my horse was tied. My stallion broke out of the cross ties and I'm told it was ugly. Fortunately the older stallion knew he was outmatched and ran instead of fighting, and after a bit my horse decided the mare in the pasture across the street was more interesting then chasing the stallion and went over there to investigate, where he was easily caught. Since that time my stallion has been wearing breeding hobbles in his stall and pasture to prevent kicking and another incident. I don't want my stallion to have to live like this and feel he is being punished for the negligence of the barn staff who should know better than to tie a stallion unsupervised no matter how well behaved he has been in the past. Both horses could have been severely injured. The trainer has spoken to them so that shouldn't be an issue any longer but I'm very concerned about the situation. The stallions are very agitated and anxious, and mine is even tense under saddle which has never been an issue in the past. I know there are many people who keep mulitple stallion so am looking for a way to change the set up that might make this situation workable. I'm at the point of considering freezing and gelding my stallion since I do not think this is an acceptable way for him to live but wonder if it will change his behavior at this point(he's 11) and its not something I really want to do.
I personally think the new stallion should go home. He's not a bad horse at all and really quite likable but I think the addition of this extra stallion is what is causing the problem and the other two are just exhibing normal stallion behavior and trying to re-establish the pecking order. But, that's creating chaos and a potentially unsafe enviornment. He was a mediocore race horse and has very limited potential as a sport horse. but sending him home isn't my call to make. so, if any of you have managed to wade through all this I'd love to hear any fresh prospectives on what is going on here and what the proper couse of action should be to make this work out.
Wow, it sounds as if you have your hands full... My opinion is as your is and that is this is a situation that can be dangerous, yet if all stallions involved got their pecking order in line it may resovle itself but maybe not before someone gets hurt. Many times stallions can be housed together.I know to that alot are brought in at younger ages and just grow up around the others. It sounds as if, for the most part they are seperated and dont' have contact with each other. That is my suggestion, making sure that all involved don't have contact, keeping at different ends of the barn . It is unfortuante with the breeding hobbles and I would not keep my horse in those conditions, meaning either they send home the horse causing trouble, or you geld and keep your horse there(and that might not even work seeing he is 11 and been used for breeding?? )What about gelding the retired stallion? is that a option ? Again not that it would solve the situation either. But may be helpful.
The hired help needs to be educated on the behavior of the stallions and be aware of the potential of a problem so they are ready for one. Anyone that leaves a horse in cross ties is asking for problems anyways, no matter how well behaved the animal is. Horses are a animal of prey and will flip out if feel threated in the ties. The hired help should be very well educated in the situation with more than one stallion on the farm and how to handle them .
I would also sugest that if there is a way to arrange the stallions so that they can not see each other that would be a good start.
I've always owned stallions that have gotten along, unfortunately I'm in the same boat these last few years as my new stallion and my old stallion absolutely despise each other and it can get rather loud at times.
I ended up moving one as far away from the other as possible, out of sight out of mind and that helped quite a bit.
I'm assuming that your boarding, so another option might be to change stables. Or if you love it there, perhaps you can ask to build your own pen away from the main barn or if there is a pen away from the barn, perhaps the new stallion could go there.
You might also try vicksing them for the time being, until you figure out what to do, just take a small bit of vicks menthol rub and place it in each nostril (make sure you don't get the tender part)...that way they all smell the same...
I wouldn't suggest this as a long term solution, even if it works, but it might get you by long enough until you can make some decisions.
Plus the fact that your right in the middle of breeding season, I would guess that once breeding season is over (and your stallion knows it's over) things might settle down on there own.
Some stallions are of course tremendously territorial regarding mares, and this is probably what you are experiencing.
Stallions in the wild are generally found in groups as "harem stallions" (dominant breeding stallion with a band of mares), or "bachelor stallions" (typically younger stallions, and no mares). This same arrangement can often be introduced into domestic housing situations and provides two arrangements that in many cases will work: A single stallion with mares (near, not necessarily in with him!), or a group of stallions housed together (again, in the same barn or within site of one another in paddocks, not all in together!), but with a complete absence of mares. Adding another stallion to situation (a) or mares to situation (b) can upset the delicate balance, as you are finding!
It is interesting to note that stallions that are in a harem situation - in the company of mares either as dominant or interloper stallion - will have higher testosterone levels than will bachelor herd stallions.
So two things that you can try is removing the other stallions or all the mares. Unfortunately, even then there are no guarantees, and I have certainly had stallions in the past that would not settle down when in the company of other stallions, and they had to be moved to a different farm.
Note that when switching to a bachelor herd situation, the testosterone levels are not going to drop immediately, so don't expect everyone to be quiet instantly - give it a little time!!
Once a stallion has engaged another in a fight, they usually never forget. Your two stallions established their pecking order early on. The new stallion upset that order.
The older stallion was threatened by the newcomer and felt as if he had to defend his positon. He was not about to low man again. The younger stallion thought that he had that all in control.
I do not believe that switching to a bachelor herd postiton will help. Once there has been confontation and contact, things usually do not settle down when they are in the same territory.
My suggestion to you is to move the other two stallions to a stall situation that is apart from your young stud. It would be best if he did not have to see or pass by them at all. I have had to move stallions to different barns on the ranch because of this same problem. They do calm down with a little time.
However, gelding any of them may not make a bit of difference. I have some stallions that remember even after the other horse was gelded.
Try rearranging the stall situation before any other drastic decisions. Good luck
Anonymous
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 01:46 am:
Thanks for all the information and advice. I know it was a lot to wade through. I think armed with the general opinion of everyone I've spoken with and the advice here I'll be able to make a strong case for changing the living arrangements. I think we made a few errors in assigning stalls that has created this chaos. First by using one of tha stalls in the older stallion's half of the barn for a mare that was in for a month or two of training when we've normally kept all the mares on my stallions end, got the older stallion's horomones kicked up a notch and then adding a third stallion to the mix just pushed him over the edge. My horse has already established his dominance and has no intention of giving it up. If these three stallions were in a natural situation there's no doubt in anyones mind that my stallion would have the mares and I think he is very aware of that fact. We do have a second, empty barn and two pastures across the driveway and the easy solution would be to move the the retired stallion and the OTTB stallion over there. Or since I have my stallions young son, a gelding who gets along with everyone, at the same barn could ask that both of them be moved over to the other barn. Moving the horse as a stallion isn't an option, first because my horse and his trainer have a really great partnership. My horse adores the trainer and unless there was no other alternative I would never take the horse from this trainer. Second, I don't have the facilities at home to keep a stallion and kind as this one is, I just don't think I have the exp. to have a stallion on my own. So worse case, and he did have to leave this farm I'd either have to sell him, or geld him and I don't think he deserves either.
Gelding will not make a difference..they rememeber even if a small encounter...have just gone thru situation and finally decided to geld 1 stallion and he went straight to trainer's barn to heal up and start work... He will be marketed from there not here..here he would upset the apple cart of hormaones and we are heavy into breeding season. Can't take the chance. And yes they cannot see colors, so try something else besides a different colored halter. Even if you put a small jingle bell on halter ...Pavlov's dog figured it out and all he would do was salivate... think 1200 of Horse flesh in stallion version.
I think you are on your way to a workable solution. I also think that you did a good job of considering the options and reading the problem. Good luck to you and your stallion
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