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Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
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| Stallion is choosing who he wants to breed |
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Sandy D
Neonate
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 10:58 am: | 
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Okay, here is my dilemma. My junior stallion has decided that there are only certain mares that he will cover. I am trying to get him to breed one of my mares and he flat out refuses to even tease her, mount her, or get an erection with her.
I have tried teasing her with a different stud and then bringing the junior stud up once she is fully teased, but he still would rather walk away, eat the grass, fall asleep, anything other than pay attention to her.
Well then I'll bring a different mare out of the barn and he instantly is excited about the new mare (who isn't even in heat). Once I get his interests up with the new mare, I take him back to the other mare who is in heat, and he goes right back to the same old crap of not even being interested.
I cannot have this stud deciding for himself who he chooses to breed....I need some help and advice. |
Tx Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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Try placing the mare he prefers next to the mare you want to breed. This could be beside her on the other side of the fence, or tied a safe distance apart.That way he maintains visual contact with the one that "floats his boat"!
You may also want to remove the mare from him and present her all over again by leading her out to him. This can also stimulate a stallion.Instead of taking him away, remove the mare that you want to breed, then bring her back until he gets excited.
Try taking a rag and wipe the mare off around her vulva. Then rub the rag into the nostrils of your stud. It can get them going.
Good Luck, we will find something that works for you! |
Sandy D
Neonate
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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Well, I have tried all of that. I did tie the mare that he likes on the other side of the fence from the mare I want bred so that he could still talk to her and sniff her and all of that. He would start to get an erection and then once the mare in heat would present herself to him, he would lose the erection and not care. I tried several times throughout the day of taking the in heat mare away and bringing her back and he still could care less. I did try rubbing some of her urine inside his nostrils, he would give the flehmen response, and that was it.
Last night I decided to lock him in an area where he cannot see ANY mares at all hoping that will give him a renewed interest today. I'm going to try a little later in the day and see what happens.
Like I said, I cannot afford to have this stallion picking and choosing.
I might also add that this mare is a maiden and although she presents herself well for breeding, when the stud does get near her she will dance around quite a bit. I think she scares him. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.206
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Sandy- I think you are on the right track. It may take some time.. but most males want what they can't have  Seclusion may in order for a bit.
The mare may be contributing to his lack of interest. You may want to ensure that she has a margarita or two before the next encounter.
The next suggustion would be to have some competition for the mare. Be very careful, but if you have a teasing stallion, let him tease from a protected area near the mare. On the other side of the fence, in another pen. This will kick in an instinctual response. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.206
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 01:04 pm: |
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In my previous post, when I mentioned rubbing the rag, I meant for you to use the mare that he was interested in. Then you can rub his nostrils, and then hold the rag on the backside of the mare that you want to breed. |
Sandy D
Neonate
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 08:55 pm: |
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TX Breeder:
Well, after 24 hours of not seeing any other mares, the stallion still showed absolutely no interest. I did keep the teaser stallion right on the other side of the panel with the mare tied right in front of him and brought the other stallion in, still no interest. This mare was literally urinating on his face and no response. I did try rubbing a rag on the mare he likes and then rubbing it up his nose and then all over the mare's behind, got the flehmen response and then nothing. I tried twitching the mare to make her more relaxed, still nothing.
I honestly think that I am at a dead end with this situation. And my problem is that I have someone who is bringing a maiden mare to breed to this stud within a week or so and I just know that we will probably be in the same boat.
This stallion has bred before, so I don't understand what the problem is. I thought a stud was a stud, no matter who the mare is. But apparently not. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.55
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 03:12 pm: |
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They can be exasperating. After over 20+ years of breeding, I have seen some dozies. My next suggestion is to place him with the mare at night, in a dimly lit place. Here's why....
I had a young stud that was as sweet as could be. He was sent to me to breed for his first time. He would be very careful about touching the mare, and almost shy about it. I could not get him to mount or penetrate by any means.
On a hunch, I turned them loose together at night. I hid out and watched what went on. It was amazing, he was a real Romeo. He wanted privacy. He got it. We were all happy. I tied one mare to a safe wall in a darkened barn and that way he would breed during the day. But once again, he wanted privacy, no watching. Funny boy!
Now another stallion would take between 2-4 hours to cover a mare. He came to me that way. It was not an acceptable situation. Eventually, I made the breeding situation much more inviting than the alternative. When he did not take his job seriously, I would take him a short distance away and lunge him in circles. After presenting him with the mare, he had a choice, work or  I did scold him when I led him away from the mare. Ultimately he decided that life as a gigilo was not so bad.
I could go on, but these examples may help. Hang in there. |
Laurie Ridgeway
Neonate
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 05:39 pm: |
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I'm going through the same exact thing right now and ditto everything you've tried and TXbreeder has suggested...
I do however want to throw one more suggestion at you...
When teasing my stallion with another mare to get him 'ready' to breed the mare he's supposed to, I found that if 'switched' mares to soon...he would lose his erection...
I had to keep teasing him until his penis was so hard that it would hit the top of his belly (I learned that when he reached that point his erection wasn't going away on it's own anytime soon), I mean he had to be really...really...ready...before I attempted the switch.
I had to be quick because at that point of readiness, the first time I tried it, he flared as soon as he jumped on the mare...
There's a very fine line that I had to learn with him but I think I've finally got it down pat.
If the mare wiggles you might have someone at her head keeping her attention on them in which ever way you prefer (chain, twitch, talking etc...)
And the mares need to be close enough so that it only takes 3-5 seconds to go from one to the other..
It took me 3 years (i've been battling with him that long) to figure out a 'system' that works for him and it was just this year that I realized exactly how hard I had to get him, to be able to keep him hard while moving from one mare to another...
try taking him to the point of 'no return' with your teasing... |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.124
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 06:06 pm: |
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Sandy- If you have teased as Laurie suggested and have come to the end of your patience, maybe you should use his favorite mare and collect him instead of having him cover her. This way, you would not have to worry over the maiden mare coming next week.
You may have to use some tranq. and breeding hobbles ( or a sideline )to get the mare to stand quietly. Twitching may not get it done while you are attempting to switch mares or collect off of the jump mare. Hopefully, they will be in heat, but if not.. |
Sandy D
Neonate
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:52 pm: |
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Thanks guys for the suggestions.
I did put the mare in with the stallion for the night and from what I could tell, nothing happened. So, I removed her from his stall this morning as I could tell they were just standing in far corners from each other.
The maiden mare that I was worried about coming next week is coming tomorrow. I explained to the owner that my stud just might not be able to do the job if her mare wiggles in any way, but we're hoping that with this being "fresh blood", a mare he's never seen before, that he will have some interest. But I'm just afraid that if he goes to mount her and she moves, we'll be right back in the same situation.
I have thought about just collecting him. But unfortunately his favorite mares are not in heat at this time.
I did not take him to the point of no return when I teased with the other mare. I guess I should have done that.
I'm just so frustrated....I have been breeding horses for 13 years and have never yet seen a stallion who is not interested in a mare who is in obvious heat. Yeah, I've seen them run away from mares who were a little on the rambunctious side, but not literally fall asleep with their nose under the mare's tail while she is winking and squirting.....it's crazy! |
Laurie Ridgeway
Neonate
Username: Laurie
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 04:19 pm: |
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I feel your pain and frustration...I was close to giving up on my boy last year..
However, my guy will get excited with his favorite mares, even if they aren't in heat. I do have to keep him away from the hind end, although standing 10 feet away and just looking at their hind end makes him 'happy'.
My mares are also nice enough to say hello a few times when approached from the front before they say 'no go away'...but if I keep him far enough away so that the mares don't say go away..he will obtain and keep his erection even though they may not be in season.
I wouldn't suggest teasing a pregnant mare not in heat..but if the mares are open and generally social, you might try it just to see what happens.
I had to learn to make time for breeding him. I've been so spoiled in the past, I could get a mare bred in 5 minutes start to finish (bring em out, clean em up, do the deed, put em back)..
With this guy when the problem started it would take 30 minutes before he even noticed the mare..
Now i've learned to have both mares out and ready before I bring him out (there is little chance he will change his ways with grey mares at this point).
As far as wiggling mares go, an old TB breeder trick (which I have not tried) is to hold (or tie) up a front leg on a mare. That doesn't sound really safe to me, but according to this breeder it was how he bred all of his mares, instead of using hobbles.
Another method you could try if you have the AV is ground collection...depending on if your willing to get 'intimate' with your stallion.. he would need to be dropped and hard enough to enter the AV (which he may do for his favorite mare even if she wasn't in heat), but then you would stimulate him with that..
I actually considered trying that with my guy, but didn't want him looking to me for satisfaction. Although perhaps you could find someone else to handle him for you.
Hang in there.
Hopefully you'll find something that works for you. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.136
| | Posted on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 09:23 pm: |
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I have a nice little mare that I have thought about selling for the past 6 years. Every year though, I have to use her for a jump mare. She does not even have to be in heat to be jumped off of. I guess that she is really worth her weight in gold...I think that I will just keep feeding her!
I find that if a stallion does have a "favorite", just looking at them will get the needed reaction as Laurie mentioned. You might try what Laurie did with her boy, and teach yours to ground collect. Many breeders ground collect successfully. He may be a canidate for that.
I have had a stallion that did the same thing as yours did, falling asleep and all. He was such a pain to breed. After hours of standing and waiting, he would act like he just realized the mare was standing there, and breed her.It was crazy.
We finally got him going, but it did take a long time to correct. It is hard to fix when you have outside mares to breed, the pressure is on. I waited until all the outside mares were serviced, then started on my campaign to reform his habits.
I would also suggest that you follow the mare with ultra sound, so that if and when he decides to breed, he is breeding at the optimal time. You would not want to waste his one mounting on a follicle that was not ready for another 3 days. This is another reason to consider collecting him. You then have another insemination for another day, or to split between mares. It can sure save you time and effort. |
Sandy D
Nursing Foal
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
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Well, I have tried all of the suggestions you all have given me, (other than ground collecting because I just don't have the equipment) and so far nothing has worked.
He did dry mount the outside mare the first time we tried breeding her, but of course she kicked him, she's a maiden, and now he will snort and sniff and lick all over her as long as he is at her front end, but as soon as that back end comes near him, he freaks and gets away from her butt as fast as he can.
We did hobble the mare last night, but I think the damage has already been done because he still wouldn't get near her hind end because as soon as he was led up to her she started her hind end jumping up and down so he figured he was going to get kicked again.
I did bring out one of my other mares that he likes a lot who happens to be in heat, and he walked right over to her, sniffed, snorted, got an erection and bred her straight away. Go figure. She is actually the perfect jump mare candidate. She is 13 years old, comes into heat like clockwork, but has never got pregnant in the 10 years I've been breeding her  But she is very seasoned at being bred 
What equipment do I absolutely need to be able to ground collect and inseminate? Because I really do think that is what I'm going to have to start doing with this guy. |
TX Brreeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.80
| | Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 01:47 pm: |
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Sandy- It sounds as if maybe you might need to tranquilize the mares and at the very least side line them in preparation for him to mount saftely.
I never present a mare to any of my stallions without at the least, a side line precaution. Why have a situation that may end up with a negative outcome for your stallion. He is being smart, if there is no saftey net in place for him. My stallion had one mare that would actually sit down like a dog while having a fit. He remembered her and never forgave her, although we did get her to stand and breed like a lady.
I also have my teasing stallion attempt a mount over a safe fence so that the maiden mare can learn that it is not an attack. It sure helps even the mares that like to act coy and fight for a minute or two. They get that out with the teaser, before my stallion breeds. I can not stress enough, the teasing procedure. It has many benefits for the mare, the stallion, and the handlers.
I always have a handler at the head of the mare. She may be tranquilized, side lined and twitched, whatever is neccessary to get the job done quietly and with the utmost safety for me and my stallion. After a cover or two, most mares then quiet down and realize what fun this can be! Most returning mares are no problem at all, but they will ALL be side lined for protection for the stallion and handler.
You did the right thing by allowing him to breed a safe and quiet mare after he was kicked by the other mare. She does sound like a gem.
You will be able to collect your stallion without much problem, however, insemination takes a practiced hand. There are many things that can injure a mare during the process, and you will need experience and education on the process. It is not something that I suggest you try to learn as you go. Until that time, you can have a vet inseminate for you. |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10072
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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There are articles on this website that will answer your question about how to ground collect and what equipment is needed. I am not sure however that this stallion is a good candidate for ground collection. In order to train ground collection, we have found that it is more successful if the stallion has a good libido, which it doesn't sound as though your guy has...
If you can get a sexual response (erection and stallion-like behaviour), you might be more successful working with him on a breeding mount (phantom), which is a little more natural (in that they are going to mount) than ground collecting. He may also rapidly recognise that he is not going to be kicked by the mount, which will help...
Where are you housing this stallion? Do you have him housed with other male horses (stallions or geldings) out of the sight of mares, or is he surrounded by mares (and no males in sight)? The former may result in a "bachelor stallion" response (with lower testosterone levels and libido), whereas the latter may result in a "harem stallion" response, with elevated testosterone and libido. Note that this is not going to be an immediate response.
What has been this stallions history? Has he been shown - especially at halter? Many stallions that have been shown are so strongly discouraged from displaying sexual behaviours that when it comes to breeding time, they won't... a sad commentary on the show world |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.154
| | Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 07:41 pm: |
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All of my stallions are very strongly discouraged from displaying sexual behaviors in all but a breeding situation. That point is not the cause of poor breeding responses.
I have shown Hunters and Jumpers, Halter,Western Pleasure, Reining,to Working Cow Horses and Cutting Horses. The blame does not belong to the show world, or those that strongly discourage unwanted behavoir in their stallions.It belongs to those handlers that do not understand stallions relevant to both situations.
It is one thing to handle a stallion in a breeding situation only. Quite another when you are training them to perform as well. A trainer may not be a competant breeder and a breeder may not understand the first thing about how the process can affect the performance stallion.It can be done well with both ends in mind. First, you have to have the experience to do so, many do not. Worse still, most will not admit that.
Back to the problem,I suggest that for future breeding seasons, Sandy has her stallion in a paddock situation where mares can come up to the fence and visit. (safe fencing of course) This will allow him freedom to naturally socialize and for the group of mares to flirt. Then I suggest that she not present him with a mare unless that mare is secured so that she can not kick him.
I suggested the collecting as a solution for the time being. I feel that with some work, he can be brought out of this state. It is less cost, less hassel,etc. to have him live cover. |
Kim k
Nursing Foal
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 09:57 pm: |
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I to have to comment on the show thing. If a stallion is trained properly to display sexual behavior only when approiate then he will do so. A show ring is not the approiate place to do so and he should be taught that. A area of the farm in which breeding takes place , well, that then is acceptable. The stallion can learn that and can breed successfully as well. A way in this can be accompolished is to make sure that you always use a different set of equiptment for breeding verses training or showing. A horse can associate such changes with certian behavior. One has to have a good level , easy hand to train him in the difference. If the horse was beaten before a show and is scared to death that it will happen again , then naturally you will have trouble when it is time for him to do his job as a stallion. A horse acts out of fear in most cases. And most of the time it is due to a situation that they have been in to develop that fear. |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10073
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 12:57 am: |
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Just so we are all (hopefully) on the same page, I'm not referring to good stallion handling in the ring resulting in bad breeding shed response. I'm referring to behaviours such as whipping or kicking the penis because the stallion gets an erection while in the ring (or away from the ring or showground come to that!).
That in my opinion is inappropriate behaviour - on the handlers part, not the stallions! |
Sandy D
Nursing Foal
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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My stallion is housed in the barn, in his own stall with a turnout, but the mares are allowed to go into the hallway of the barn. There is another stallion that is housed outside of the barn, about 50 feet from the "problem" stallion's turnout.
He has been shown in both halter and hunter in hand. I have never had problems with him exhibiting stallion like behavior or dropping in the arena, so he has never been scolded for doing so. I have taken a lot of time working with this stallion in getting him used to having his penis handled when it is dropped because I did have every intention of eventually collecting him. So, he has never had a bad experience when he has displayed any type of sexual behavior.
I would agree that he has a very poor libido for a stallion of his age. Which by the way he is a 3 year old. Maybe he is still too young?
I have two more mares booked to this stud for this season. Both are seasoned breeding mares, so I'm hoping things will go better. I did not want him to breed any maiden mares this year and was trying to do my best to be selective with the mares I booked to him, but the owner of this mare didn't admit her mare was a maiden until the first time we tried breeding her and she kicked out. She had told me she was a 6 year old mare and wouldn't have any problem being bred.
So, here's to hoping that the other two seasoned mares won't be a problem. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.67
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 09:27 pm: |
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From what I am getting from Sandy, her stallion is not fearful from any human inappropriatness. As Kim pointed out, fear can create trouble and it has injected itself in this situation.This stallion is aware of danger relative to his safety at the kicking end of the mare. He is merely insecure about his dominace with these mares. He sounds like a young stallion to me. With work, time and age, he should gain a more dominate posture during breeding.
Unfortunately, there are those individuals that may "whip or kick" the penis as Jos has stated in the above posts. However, as a "sad commentary" on the show world, I have never witnessed such a thing at a show. Then again, those that compete at a high competitive level would think twice about doing such a thing. It would be counter-productive to their goal, as well as putting off future customers. Gossip and inuendo travel quickly in these circles.
Only the ignorant "wanna be" would display such a loss of control at a public venue. Such a person would not last long as a "trainer/handler" in the "show world". I find that this type of inappropriate dicipline most often occurs around a more informal gathering of like-minded and inexperienced handlers and should not be attributed to the show world as such.
I think that this was a good exchange of ideas and may have helped to point out the difference between the true show world and the gatherings of those that only imitate it. |
Kim k
Nursing Foal
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 10:17 pm: |
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As it sounds , Maybe Sandy you will have better luck with a experienced mare that knows what breeding is all about. I would guess that your young fellow just doesn't want to get kicked at this point in time, I can't blame him ! I know too with our inexperienced fellow when he was young , he did not want to approach a mare if he know that she would kick, it wasn't until he had a taste of breeding and knew what he wanted and learned how to read a mare and make his mount even when he knew they might kick, knowing how to mount quickley and once his body weight was on the mare , he knew he was gonna do ok. Time and patience will prevail to I think . Once he has some experience under his belt -- I think his thoughts will change too. You can always have his hormones tested and see if he is at levels that are acceptable.
Best of luck
Kim |
Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos
Post Number: 10075
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 12:53 am: |
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I'm trying to picture the location of the two stallions relative to the mares. Are they on opposite sides of the mares, or are the mares the other side of the stallions? Is the second stallion (not the problem fellow) at any time positioned in between the mares and the stallion we are talking about?
I ask this, as if that is the case, the stallion that is closest to the mares will be the "harem stallion", and as such will tend to have higher testosterone levels (as well as libido). The other stallion (the one we are talking about) will in that case tend to be in a more submissive position, and his testosterone will tend to be lower. If there is a way to put the stallion we are talking about next to (and in view of) the mares at all times, and the other stallion the other side of him (from the mares) you will tend to elevate the testosterone levels naturally, which may help his libido.
Having said all of that, the fact that the stallion we are talking about is three may undoubtedly be a very significant factor in what you are experiencing. Not all stallions mature at the same rate of course, and although many 3 year-olds are exhibiting mature behaviour, others - especially if they have been threatened or hurt by a mare in a breeding situation - will lose their enthusiasm rapidly! A word of caution here - do not force this guy. Let him take his time. Where he is young and showing a lack of enthusiasm, forcing him to do something in a sexual situation can have a long-term negative impact on the enthusiasm. Stallions have a well-developed single-trial avoidance learning ability in a sexual situation, and respond very rapidly by refusal to repeat a situation that they deem to be "unsafe". Pushing them to do what they are not willing to do can have longer-term negative repercussions.
TX Breeder, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the subject of abuse I've competed and been involved in competition and the horse industry on 3 continents and many more countries, in a variety of disciplines. I've seen abuse at all levels, sexually related (as described) and otherwise. In my experience it is not limited to the lower levels of competition, nor the non-professional, and indeed, again in my viewing experience, when the competition gets tougher, and the winning more "necessary", the means to the end can become more undesirable for the stallion.... 'nuff said... |
Kim k
Nursing Foal
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 07:48 am: |
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Yes, I too would have to agree with not pushing a young stallion. Especially if there has been a problem with a mare during his first breeding season. Given time he will overo come the negitive experience he has had and will come to enjoy his breeding experience !
Jos and TX Breeder, I will have to side with you Jos as I have seen many horses mistreated on the show ring. Once a breeder/trainer is out to win they have to bring home the points/money that is what they are working for and stress and life sometimes gets to people. I think that sometimes smaller hobby breeders are a better example of what the show world should be about. They sometimes tend to the animals alittle better, treat them alittle nicer and don't push their animals to hard as they want them around for a long time to come. A person doing it professionally sometimes has a can do attuitude of well we can replace it with another if we have to. Me as a small breeder want my animals to be around for a while. I need to make a positive impact on the world around me as every person counts and every move I make counts. The bigger you get the more lax you become as there will always be a sale, or a breeding coming your way and someday that attitude will fail. I have seen more than once at a show a person should be excused for doing something wrong in many different fashions but it is overlooked because of politics, but if it were a small time person that does not have a political position in the show circuit than it is not overlooked . Sad story sometimes.
Kim |
Sandy D
Nursing Foal
Username: Sbr_appaloosas
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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The stallion in question is in view of the mares at all times and the other stallion is on the other side of him away from the mares, just as Jos suggested should be the case. I might add that this stallion was allowed to run with the mares while a weanling and a yearling. It was only as a two year old that he started being separated from the mares and that was only during the breeding season, and then he was allowed out to pasture with them again during the winter. He was separated from the mares this year starting in Feb.
The young stallion had bred 3 mares last year as a two year old....One of them being the older, seasoned mare I mentioned in the earlier post, another being an older seasoned mare during her transition heat, and the other another seasoned mare who he did settle and she is due to foal anytime now. His libido and confidence seemed much better last year as a two year old. But then again, they were all well seasoned mares.
We tried covering the maiden with him again today and same situation, would not even get an erection. He would tease her just fine and get her aroused, but no arousal on his part. We put the maiden mare away and brought out the older mare, and it took him maybe 5 minutes and he had an erection and covered her perfectly...job well done. And once he covered her he was praised and given treats to know that he did a good job.
I can only hope that he will cover the other two outside mares that are seasoned mares.
As for the abuse of stallions at shows....I have definitely seen it done. Folks whipping their stallion's penis with the reins or even smacking the penis with a brush right outside the ring as they were in the gate ready to go in. I'm just appaled every time I see it happen and wonder why they are not disqualified as it states right in the show rule book that mistreatment of horses will not be tolerated. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.216
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 02:24 pm: |
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Well... I guess we have a different view of sexually related "abuse". I was responding to the statement of "whipping and kicking" the penis.That is extreme and is not often done in the competitions that I have been involved in. Other abusive treatment is obviously witnessed in most all disiplines and levels of competiton and more often in backyard situations.
I will not get into a "Where I've been and what I have done and won" exchange, but suffice it to say I have credibility on this subject. The horsemen at the absolute "TOP" of the game are not usually those that indulge in intentional abuse. They do not have to, they simply get a horse that wants to join the program. It is not worth the time and effort to waste on a horse that does not conform to their training. As a whole,I see more "abuse" in every day situations than in the show world.I still will not secede the "fact" that the tougher the competition, the worse it can be for the stallion. Or, that the show world should have been singled out for breeding related problems.
I would agree that by showing a young stallion for a length of time may inhibit an initial impulse to exhibit stallion behavior. Not from abuse, from repetition. Obviously, unless the stallion has a breeding program in progress the young stallion can be confused.This can be overcome with thoughtful handling, and should not be attributed to abuse in the show world. Now then, "'nuff said"
I will "slap" at my stallion's under belly with reins or what not and remind him to "put it up". I do not consider this abusive. Many of the registration rules about mistreatment are overkill if you ask me, most are not...but I understand the mind set of those who disagree. |
Kim k
Weanling
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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Tx Breeder, you just said it that so what , doesnt matter what happens ,you can get another one if it doesn't work. That is the mentallity of the bigger breeders, Use them and abuse them. I know that is not the the thoughts of all breeders but in alot of cases so. This is true in almost any livestock circurit. Cattle is a big one for this too as well as the paint and QHorses. |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.128
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:52 pm: |
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No..I did not say that it doesn't matter what happens.
Top trainers will not waste time on a horse that is not suited to the desired discipline. It is much more responsible to simply get another horse that is better suited . That does not mean that they "used them and abused them."Their money is made on winnings, and there is not enough time or money to waste on a losing proposition. Many horses do very well in a totally different disipline.
I do not believe that the show community is any more responsible for abuse than the common horse owner.Period. If anything, they have improved the quality of training, care and research that has benefitted the horse industry as a whole.
I do not think it accurate or fair to characterize and generalize the show world in that manner. |
Kim k
Weanling
Username: Kimk
Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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I don't generalize the whole show world in that manner. But its funny when your read the different journals and see why people are suspended. Trying to get away with some aweful stuff. Even going to the extent of having a fake testicle implanted in order to continue to show because the stallion never dropped a second on and in order to be shown and serviced he had to have two. There are people out there that are like that and it shows up in the show world. When we go out to show we do it by the laws of the associations, I can't afford to have problems... It is sad too when everyone around you knows you should have taken a better place in the ring but the person that did do better only did because they play part of the political game and have supported the particalur state club in the form of money..These people no longer even have their horses due to fact that they were pushed so hard on feed and exercise-- that to is abuse... When my stallion was 5 he was still good to go , but not anyone else that we had shown against. Their horses were gone, done, expired--- to me that is abuse too.
I enjoy the show ring , but it allso makes me made when i see stuff going on... We have a big breeder here in Indiana that had the world show out their back door one year. They, on purpose, stopped accepting money for services under the mans name and the money only went through the gals name for the period of time in order for him to show as a amature. They then were at a local paint show-- he showed in the amature classes and by no means is he a amature and everyone knew it.... that is abusing the system and should have been noted for it. There is alot that goes on in the show world, always has been , always will be |
TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.56
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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I have been associated with the upper levels of competition for over 35 years. Political games are a part of most competitions, however, if you persist in your discipline, you will be in the winners circle.
I understand your position, and am ending my my comments on the subject of "showing" with this final observance:
There is more abuse in the every day world of horse ownership than there is in the show world. The breeding problems associated with show horses is more due to repeated supression than abuse. |
destiny
Neonate
Username: Djb
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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hi i have a question about my miniature stud. He is two years old. I have a minaiture donkey who is 5. My stud has only droped one testicle. can he still bred???? and i want a hinny do u think he will bred this young ????? |
destiny
Neonate
Username: Djb
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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hey this is destiny agian plase leave me a answear this is out of date i left it on march 16 06 so please leave me an aswear im desprite!!!!!!!!!!!! post it ill check back thanks so much!!! |
Terry O.
Weanling
Username: Ksfarmer
Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:36 am: |
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I would think that you should get something from this year's breeding. My pony stud didn't get anything stuck until later in his first summer and was turned out in May of that season. He did try. I think he was just trying to keep a good thing going.lol |
Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris
Post Number: 342
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 06:23 am: |
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practice makes perfect, i found that out, a not quite two year old we thought was just learning was actually succeeding...as a result my first foaling experience 11 years ago! |
E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie
Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Destiny- he certainly can breed at that age, it might just take him a few tries to get it right. Not having the 2nd testicle descended will not keep him from breeding, but that is thought to be a genetic issue and it is possible that his colts will also be that same way. |
destiny
Neonate
Username: Djb
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 09:23 pm: |
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hey its destini agian im just courious dose anyone have any experiance breeding minature horses and miniature onkeys to have a mini hinny??!! if any one who dose leave a mesg!} |
Michell Gibson
Neonate
Username: Slipper
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:21 pm: |
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Thanks for your advice on this subject.Iwe could not get our young stallion interested in breed one of our mares.I put him and the mare in the round pen and he warmed up to her and did it.We had been hand breeding but that wasn't working with this mare.Thanks again |
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