I have a older stallion that I purchased last year. We bred him to one of our mares last year, in which he was difficult to handle. The mare came back in and took her to him to tease, before breeding, like we always do. The stallion literally went crazy. He lunged at the mare he had already bred twice, with ears pinned, tried to go over the fence and then began what I would described as a uncontrolable tantrum. He ran around in circles, throwing himself down and against the fence, he bit himself, kicked himself, the fence, and barn walls. This went on for almost 15 minutes. He became very difficult to handle after that, but after working with him tons, was able to breed him with moderate control and at times was almost a gentleman. Fast forward to this year. We proceeded to bred a mare(he had bred this mare the year before as well, but she never concieved), and took all the precautions that we did the year before to maintain control. We never made it within 25 feet of the mare...the stallion had different ideas. He became upset and started into one of his fits, rearing, striking, kicking and screaming. We took the mare out and worked with him for several more minutes. He settled down and brought the mare back in. As we started approaching the mare, he came unglued. He pinned his ears back at her and charged her. I tried to back him off, he then turned rearing and stiking at me, ripping the lead out of my hands and went for the mare. We were able to get the mare out, before he could get to her. We then caught him and used two people to walk him back to his pen. As we went past the other horses, he charged at them, ears pinned and teeth bared. This is a phenominal 16 hand Arabian stallion, but am unsure of his future as a breeding horse. He is not isolated from the other horses, but does not have physical contact, for concern of injuring himself and others. He is quite content, has gained lots of good weight since coming here. But since the breeding ordeal, he will not eat and is constantly pacing and running back and forth in his stall. Any suggestions or others who may have encountered this? I've managed several dozen stallions breeding careers, but never had anything close to this. Oh, after the incident last year, we had him vet checked for everything and it came back clean.
Anonymous Posted From: 12.149.186.66
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:47 pm:
Sorry, I don't have any advice...but would like to know WHY this stallion is being used for breeding? He doesn't have the traits required for being a stallion IMO.
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.51
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:50 pm:
This is a real problem. I had an Arabian stallion sent to me to breed that was quite out of control. First, I had to make certain that he understood that I was in control ALL of the time. I would not allow anyone else to handle him. I had to do everything associated with this horse. He had to know that I was the last word and that no other person would alter the routine.
Secondly, he had to be where he could see, hear, and experience all that went on at the barn. I moved him numerous times during the day and kept him tied until he calmed down.( water was always available ) Each time he was moved, he would act out until he realised that nothing was coming of his behavior. Many times, a stallion is handled only for the purpose of breeding. They anticipate that breeding is in the offering.
I only will breed at certain times during the day. I keep a strict schedule, and NEVER alter my routine. They are lead with a different halter, and must follow the same path to the breeding shed. ( I make sure that we do not travel that path at any other times )
I never tease with this horse. I have a teasing stallion for that. Some stallions become too stressed for teasing. It can bring out the worst in them. They get frustrated and worried about not being able to cover that mare. That way, he knows that he will always breed when I prepare him a certain way. He does not worry that the mare will not stand, or is not ready. The mare does not kick etc, and is in standing heat ready to accept this stallion.
Now, I have turned an aggressive stallion out with a wise old brood mare that taught him some respect. I had to ignore the sounds of hoofs kicking and landing. However, if the stallion was not going to learn, I did not want him a stallion any way. It did not take long, he learned to approach carefully and respectfully. He was smart enough to get out of the way of her feet and protect himself. After that, he was ready to breed in hand. Some times, it is the only way to for a stallion to learn. Worrying about him hurting himself only insured that he would. I had to bite the bullet and let nature give the lessons.
A stallion like this will eventually worry the wieght of him. The Arab that was sent to me, never had any contact with another animal. I put a miniture donkey in the run next to him.( cattle panel ) He tried to act a fool at first, but then loved the contact with the little donkey. Now they are best friends, and the stallion is maintaining wieght and is much less agitated. I can not stress enough how much physical contact is needed. It will make a difference.
Be careful.Your health is first.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 205.188.116.65
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:24 pm:
I too have used the method of turning my stallion out with a wise old mare. After a couple of squeals and kicks he has learned his lesson to not rush a mare. The fact that this stallion went after you worries me. If he has no respect for you there will be no way you are going to be able to handle him in a breeding situation. I honestly think you need to do some serious ground training before even thinking about breeding him again and if things don't change, he's not worth breeding. There are too many nice stallions out there to be breeding ones that have vices like this. I wish you the best of luck but please be realistic.
TWSArab Posted From: 170.215.74.77
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 03:09 pm:
Thanks for the info. Unfortantely for this stallion, I believe that he learned alot of bad habits from his Owner/breeder, who was not able to control him or teach him control. He then learned to do as he pleased. I have considered turning him out with a "wise old mare"...but they are all in foal and due to foal shortly. Outside of a breeding enviroment, he is a wonderful stallion and have never had the need to punish or repremend him for misbehavior. Our other stallions are truely gentlemen and a joy to work with both in a breeding and non-breeding enviroment. Our plan was to use this troubled stallion as an out-cross on our other stallions fillies...but they are several stallions that will do what I want in an out-cross. I will try and find a little mini or donkey and put next to him to see if it helps. If not, I'll geld him and hopefully give him a better life.
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.163
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 09:34 pm:
It could also be competition with the other stallions. Make sure that he does not pass, or have to hear the other stallions close to him when preparing him to breed. He should not have to see another stallion ( or horse at all ) while breeding. I make sure that the breeding barn is away from the other horses so that he feels no competition to hurry up and breed the mare. This feeling of urgency can also stir up the need to fight and protect his mare.( even from you)
Think over your breeding routine and see what you could do to insure him a quite and isolated breeding invironment. I like your attitude and am sure that you will make the right decision for your situation.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 152.163.100.13
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:27 am:
Good luck TWSArab, as TX Breeder said he may feel competition from the other stallions (plus maybe have some bad manners on top of it ) Let us know if you have any luck and what worked for you. At least this stallion finally landed with someone that has his best interests at heart.
katoneal Posted From: 68.238.135.186
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 03:35 pm:
Sounds like this guy was badly handled in the beginning and will take ALOT of remedial handling by a real pro to get better.
Unless you can afford to send him to a professional stallion handler, you are better off gelding him.
As for the "wise old mare" deal. That works if the mare is also a TOUGH old mare and the stallion young enough to be intimidated. But I've seen stallions go after mares, knock them down and savage them severely. So don't think the mares can't get hurt...they can. Remember, in the wild the stallion dominates the mare.
I had a young stallion come to me and I tried to pasture breed him to my dominant mare. She wasn't quite in full blown heat (my mistake) and she chased him around, got him in a corner and kicked the snot out of him!!
The next year the same stallion was in a large pasture with three mares, including this one. He very happily bred all the mares but this one ~ even though she was in total standing heat. She would stand beside him, winking, squirting...the whole deal...and he would totally ignore her. We went through three months of this...till finally he just totally turned on her when she approached, chased her around the pasture, KNOCKED HER DOWN...then I came in with the whip.
Obviously we pulled that mare out. It took two more cycles of hand breeding before he would breed that mare without trying to savage her. She had obviously "learned her lesson" about who was in charge, because, although she stood to be mounted, she trembled the whole time...and if he so much as put a tooth on her, she bolted. I used the vet to help me pinpoint the timing so that only one cover was needed and she got pregnant, so all's well that ends well...but the point is, he was going to "show her whose boss" no matter what.
So don't think that just any old mare will teach lover boy to be good...a stallion's drive is to dominate, and the mare's is to submit.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 152.163.100.13
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 07:47 pm:
Actually katoneal, mares run the herd in the wild not the stallions-their drive is not to submit unless in heat.
TX Breeder Posted From: 199.3.209.127
Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 03:11 pm:
Both of the above posts are correct. A dominate mare will put a younger stallion in his place, however, a submissive mare may be exhibiting standing heat, when it is actually a submissive behavior. This can be confusing to a younger stallion. That is why I always make certain of the mare that is to "teach" these lessons.
Kaotneal had a stallin that remembered that kick from a certain mare. This can happen with the most gentle of stallions. I have the "perfect" breeding stallion. After a maiden mare kicked at him (with breeding hobbles, a twitch, tranq. and 2 handlers)he mounted her and was the most aggressive that I have ever seen him.
I made certain that the next breeding session was with a quiet mare that was very submissive. There are so many variables with these animals, you have to consider all the possibilities
Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.
Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
) Let us know if you have any luck and what worked for you. At least this stallion finally landed with someone that has his best interests at heart.
