My stallion (11 y.o. RID) had his first lesson at ground collection today. Tullis Matson came down from Twemlows with the necessary equipment, and we had a keen and 'easy' mare standing by in case. Main purpose of the exercise was to inseminate a mare which turned out to be too small internally for the stallion - but I hope also to be able to AI difficult mares in the future without the big investment in a phantom.
He had been collected from before - but always using a phantom.
Tullis was not optimistic - he said he found only about 10% of stallions would ground collect - and that laidback stallions were less likely to perform. However, Raj took to it like a duck to water. We tried him in the stable first - but he didn't understand, so we went out to his playpen (where he normally covers), approached the mare and then turned him side on to her. Tullis did the business with the AV - and we collected a good sample in a few minutes with no 'dangerous' behaviour! (The 'teaser' mare was NOT pleased!)
My stallion has been declared the easiest Tullis had ever 'trained'! I'm hoping this will make my life easier and safer (there are some mares I don't like being behind!)
I am surprised by Tullis' 10% figure, as it doesn't correlate at all with my experience, or with the experience of other stallion handers with whom I've discussed ground collection. Rather, I've not yet found a stallion who was unable to be trained to ground collect. I'm sure they are out there but, personally, I've never met one.
What I will point out is that not every stallion is going to be comfortable training to use the AV in a manner that is eminently flexible.
That is to say, some stallions quickly learn that AV = collection and can be ground collected essentially anywhere, at any time, with no mares or other horses present or required. This level of comfort on the part of the stallion is, in my experience, not easily achieved - though I do not intend to make it sound impossible, or even exceedlingly difficult. It just isn't a guaranteed outcome for every stallion.
As the years go by, I become more and more aware of how important the relationship between handler and stallion is to successful, predictable, flexible, safe ground collection. Shortcuts or tricks are no substitute for a confident stallion who knows and trusts his handler at a fundamental level.
It sounds like your boy is well on his way to a great ground collection skillset, Janet. That's such a useful skill for him to have. . . I can't imagine the hassle and trouble we'd face here with most of our boys who are so often travelling in showjumping competition during the breeding season. If we needed a phantom and teaser mare for every collection, we'd be "hooped" (to use a Canadian-ism)!
I suspect that part of the problem is that there are a HELL of a lot of ill-mannered stallions in the UK, that are not handled to any degree because people are scared of them. The former owners of my previous stallion were TERRIFIED of him, and he'd been kept in a compound for 5 years, with them shoving bowls of feed under his nose to enable them to do anything - even put his headcollar on!
If they're not 'safe' to handle, I think I'd be declaring them 'untrainable' for ground collection pretty quickly too! Tullis was rather surprised that Raj worked in just a snaffle. (EVERYONE here seems to think stallions need Chiffneys!)
I suspect he will end up not needing a teaser mare - he listens, and he learns very quickly. He does find natural covering difficult sometimes - particularly with narrow mares he can't get a grip on - and I suspect I will end up AI'ing mares purely because it IS so much easier - particularly when it's hot and humid!
Do you think it would be practical to train him to 'collect' while loosely tied up? Perhaps with pillar reins on his headcollar in the stable doorway. He is great with me - but he does have a sense of humour and my husband doesn't handle him very well (and I know I won't persuade HIM to handle the AV!) Certainly today I barely had to check him at all - and he didn't go up in the air - it would make life VERY easy if I could collect from him single-handed.
When I am training to ground collect, I usually do it in a safe crosstie area. We much prefer the "bungee" crossties as they give a bit and allow for some flexibility. It is also essential to have good, secure footing - rubber stall mats are ideal for horse and handler.
If a teaster mare is needed, she can be brought up to the crossties or even just into sight, and once he drops the ground collection process can begin. The bungee crossties help to "correct" for a stallion going up initially, as they symmetrically apply downward pressure until he's back on the ground.
In truth, I've never trained any stallion to ground collect with more than one handler. Using the crossties, it's quite elegant with only one person to handle the AV - nice to have a second set of hands around for finding lube and other such things, but not necessary for the actual collection.
Later, as each stallion gets more experienced with the process, I collect them in their stalls if it's more convenient.
I must admit that I was chuckling when you mentioned snaffles and Chiffneys. . . my equipment for ground collection in terms of head control consists of a good leather halter and a nylon lead-rope. That's it. When I'm collecting in the stall, I rarely even bother with a halter. A stallion (or any horse) with good handling manners doesn't need a bunch of extra stuff to "maintain control." With our most frequently-collected stallion, Capone, when it's hot like it is nowadays I often collect him in sandals. . . though I must admit I've had a few strange looks from vets who came by to see ground collection in person. Perhaps they were expecting whips and chains and twitches and whatnot. . . instead there's me, in sandals, an AV, a stallion, and in 2 or 3 minutes a collection in the bottle.
Why make things complicated, when they can be simple?
This is one reason I don't feel comfortable giving much advice on ground collection without seeing someone handle the stallion in question in person first. Ground collection is easy, safe, and efficient but ONLY if the stallion already has good manners as well as trust in his handler. Further, the handler must be confident and effective for me to feel they are ready to move onto ground collection training.
Ouch - the thought of sandals made my eyes water (having had Raj actually standing on my foot while covering a mare!)
But that sounds promising for Raj and me - I do most things with him in the stable without tying him up (grooming, etc.) and I thought it should be practical. It's just when you see far more experienced people taking elaborate precautions .... of course, they don't KNOW the stallion.
I always used to lead him in just a headcollar, but he is just a touch strong and as I have an arthritic right hand, a trapped nerve in my shoulder, a prolapsed disc AND a blocked artery in my leg I occasionally have remind him (a 17 hh LUMP with a LOT of forward movement) to do it at my pace!
And I LIKE simple!
Capone looks absolutely amazing in that jump on the site - how nice to hear he has a temperament to match! Do you ship his semen to the UK by any chance?
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