Hello! I'm a rider who's recently gotten interested in learning more about stallion management, since it's an area of horsemanship that most riding stables more or less ignore, and I have *a lot* of questions for the stallion experts out there!
I know many people socialize young stallions/let them learn breeding "manners" by turning them out with older, experienced broodmares. Other people turn them out with a dominant gelding. My question is, can a colt be turned out with both broodmares and a gelding, or is this asking for trouble (ie. colt and gelding get into a fight over the mares?) If you have to choose one form of socialization (broodmares or the gelding) what factors go into chosing which route to take?
That's all the questions for now ... I'm sure I'll have more in the future !
Liz H Posted From: 64.12.116.22
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 01:06 am:
Much depends on the individual stallion but in general I would not turn a stallion out with both mares and geldings at the sametime.
And with a young stallion I would also not turn him out with a whole herd of mares at one time. But would considered one or two seasoned mares who were showing strong standing heat and then only in a controlled in hand situation... pasture breeding can be learned later and again would depend on the stallion and the mares.
Some stallions have no issues and do well in pasture situation. But a highly valued show stallion may not be pasture breed for the sole reason that many breeders consider it a more risky process. And some Mares are not appropriate either for pasture breeding.
Read up on couple of posts by D Spink,, he has some sound ideas and advice about this subject and it is well thought out .
My young colt is stabled in a stall but it open on all 4 sides his buddy in the next stall is a younger gelding. He sees all the activity going on and he is one of 6 stallions on the place.. Right now the boys (intact) out number the girls.
he is happy, secure, easily handled, and does not have a mean bone in his body.
In many ways he is easier to handle that my 2yr old filly or my 8 yr old mare.
Anonymous Posted From: 24.226.29.124
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 08:01 am:
Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to look those posts up!
Thank you for your kind words, Liz. I've been offline most of the summer, juggling the breeding season scramble with a full schedule of showjumping competitions.
For Anon, if you've got any other specific questions, please do post them here and I'll provide what experience I have in those areas, for better or for worse. Liz's comments above are quite solid and I'd agree in full with them.
In terms of socialization, remember that turnout is only one form - folks think it is the sine qua non of equine socialization, and perhaps it is. However, horses also "socialize" when not actually turned out with each other. In paddocks alongside, they can interact and perhaps even touch noses. Even if the paddocks aren't entirely contiguous, they can see each other from a little way's apart and this helps to maintain social ties.
Finally, the configuration of one's barn is critical to proper social confidence. In our current "stallion barn," the first thing I did when I moved here was tear out all the bars that covered the stall fronts. It's a barn, not a maximum-security prison! Now the boys call all hang their heads out and chat with each other.
The aisle is wide enough to make it possible to still walk down the center without receiving unwanted kisses or nuzzles (stallions don't know about the laws regarding sexual harrassment ;-), which is important for open-front stalls. Additionally, in two of the sets of stalls the boys can reach into each other's stall fronts and touch noses, chat, etc. This doesn't work for all pairs of stallions, but two of our older boys are absolute best buds and are nuzzling each other all day. They actually eat hay out of each other's mouths, it's quite silly but it has helped them to keep good social manners even though they aren't turned out with each other in a paddock (I trust them, but not quite enough to try that with their shoes on and 1300 pounds of muscle behind them!).
We routinely have mares and geldings in the "stallion barn" for a visit, and it's good for everyone to be able to "meet and greet" with the open stall fronts. It's a key part of their social interaction; if we go to a show with the prison-style stalls, our boys get twitchy and pissy very quickly - they don't like isolation one bit, and wonder why they are in "time-out."
Plus, of course, human interaction is also social interaction for stallions. They don't draw a hard line between humans and other horses; we're all social beings to them. Every day our boys are working with me - cleaning stalls, changing water buckets, grooming, riding, etc. With the open stall doors, I'm always patting their foreheads or scritching their ears as I walk through tbe barn. They are very accustomed to this sort of physical closeness, and it's one reason I have total confidence in their ability to handle themselves as gentlemen in strange situations, with strange people.
Thanks for the info, D. Spink. The disparity between the general perception of stallions vs. the reality continues to amaze me. It's really, really nice to hear about happy, well-adjusted stallions.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 198.81.26.13
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 01:09 am:
I too treat my stallion as any other "regular"horse. He is stalled next to a mare with runs off of their stalls so they are always in close contact. During turnout he is by himself but does share a fence line with the mares, they can touch noses and interact. He is only 2 years old but he is the easiest stud I have ever dealt with. You can walk right up to him and give him hugs and kisses. My two year old can pet him without being bit or run over. I truly believe if stallions are not kept in seclusion from other horses you will avoid a lot of typical stallion behavior problems.
With respect, Eagle View Arabians, he is a colt. With luck and good management, he will continue to be 'easy' - but when mature, he will still need to be treated with respect.
For people who acquire older stallions, it is not always possible to socialise them TOO closely - this needs to be done when they are young in many/most cases.
My first stallion turned out to be LETHAL when stabled near geldings - he couldn't be led past the closed stable door safely (which is why I no longer have him!) And apparently his father was the same. My current chap is a MUCH nicer person and is happy to have mare of gelding in the stable next door - or mares and foals on the other side of the fence - but with a second fence 8 feet from the first!
Keeping stallions as normally as possible and socialising them well is highly desirable - but it HAS to be said that with older stallions, it is not always sensible or safe.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 205.188.116.21
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:14 am:
I completely agree Janet, older stallions are harder to deal with especially if you have not had them their whole life and do not know how they were handled before. I understand my stallion is only two but he is not my first. I treat him the same as my mares meaning I don't treat him with kid gloves scared of him since he is a "stallion". I am always aware that he is intact and NEVER turn my back on him. What I meant by he is the easiest stud I have dealt with is just that, I have dealt with two year olds that are super aggressive and wild. If you read D. Spinks post, I was agreeing with him that stallions can be around other horses if done properly. I guess I wasn't very clear when I stated my colt shared a fence line, he does but it also has hot wire along the top. But again, I agree when you get an older stallion it is much harder because you do not know how he has been handled.
Sorry, that came over a bit pedantic. I hate people treating stallions like wild (caged) animals but I also worry a bit that less experienced folk could get the idea that all stallions are that easy. My first stallion had belonged to a couple who bought him as their first stallion (they were sold him by a very experienced stud that should have known better - he had always been tricky!) The couple were terrified of him and kept him in a compound and the limited handling they did was always accompanied by food: they told me it was easy to put a headcollar on him if you did it while he was eating!! And that he didn't tie up (he learnt!)
Your colt will no doubt benefit from the right handling and grow up to be as well mannered as a stallion as he is now.
Eagle View Arabians Posted From: 198.81.26.13
Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:50 pm:
I know what you mean by inexperienced people having stallions. It always amazes me how many people want a stallion but have no idea what they are getting in to. That is also what I meant when I said I wasn't scared of him, too many people are scared of their stud and then their behaviors get worse!
Anonymous Posted From: 65.54.97.143
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 05:58 pm:
so, if at 2 they aren't acting like they will end up cating, when does it change? Eagle view arabians has a nice horse, but some of you think that will change? when? why? thanks.
My stallion has always been raised out at pasture with other studs and now is kept out at pasture with my geldings and cows. He is three now and I have never bred him. He was at the trainers for 60 days as a two year old and was broke to ride and then we turned him back out to grow up some more. He will be in training again this summer and started on cattle. I have been training him by voice commmands and he has learned to wait for me by his corral at feeding time. As I said he is kept on pasture (20 acres) and when I enter the gate I yell to all to go to their pens, all of horses and cows included go and stand by their feeders and wait for me to feed each one. This has worked so far for me, I am always thinking safety when I am working with any animal. My stud was kept in a barn and stalled during his training last year and was kept with mares, geldings, and other studs all around him, he had no problems. I am hoping that he doesn't change after we start breeding him next year when he is four. But so far he has been pretty good. He gets lots of exercise everyday so maybe that helps out with his disposition also. He is quite attached to the geldings that he is kept with, they are both older and quite dominate horses and keep him in check.
You have the perfect conditions to expect a favorable outcome. I would not change a thing. He may become a bit more aggressive after his first breedings. But, that all depends on how you handle that. I would suggest that you follow a very strict routine and not deviate from that.
Make sure that he is bred in one place only. You may want to designate a breeding farm as the place for breeding to take place. That way, he will not expect any breeding situation at home or when away at a show or at the trainers. If you do decide to handle the breeding at home, I would suggest a separate area that he is not around, exept at breeding times. Make it clear that any other situation will not end with breeding. If you follow a planned agenda, all should be well.
May I suggest to that you use seperate equiptment to handle him with during breeding time. This has proved to be very benificial to us. It was reccommended from a old time breeder to do this. It also shows the stallion that this behavior is only acceptable when a certian halter, lunge line/lead rope are used. Use a different set of equiptment for pasture/training use. This goes with txbreeder in doing your breeding in one spot only. It is not acceptable to do it all over the farm. (Although, for special conditions we have had to alter where we have done our breeding..ex. due to weather conditions, size of mare and due to the fact that our stallion was well mannered he adapted to the change without fuss and without expecting it when he felt like it--- good to "train" a stallion when it is time to mount )
I JUST GOT A 3 YEAR OLD STUD COLT.I PUT HIM IN THE CORRAL AND PUT HOT WIRE AROUND IT,SO HE CANT GET TO MY 2 YEAR OLD FILLY. IT WORKS GOOD BUT HE'S BEEN SCREAMING FOR HER FOR TWO DAYS NOW.IM GOING TO GELD HIM WHEN I GET HIM HALTER BROKE. IM A TRUCK DRIVER SO ITS GOING TO BE A COUPLE OF WEEKS.IM SURE THE HOMES AROUND ME ARE GETTING THERE SHORTS IN A BUNCH. SO IS HE GOING TO STOP SCREAMING ARE DO I GOT TO GO OUT THERE AND KICK HIM IN THE NUTTS.}
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