My two year old stud colt is trying his hardest to mount a mare, but he just cannot seem to get it to the correct spot! I am holding the mare for him, and she keeps trying to turn to show him which end is the right one, but he is very persistant at wanting to mount her head or her side. I do not have a halter on him or anything like that because I do want him to learn to do this anyway that is easiest for him, and the mare is very patient with him, but at the same time, I am really beginning to wonder if he'll ever get it right. He is just exhausting himself with mounting everywhere except for where he is supposed to be and I'm afraid it will become discouraging to him. Should I put a halter and lead on him and try to guide him to the right area? I've tried this before with a young stallion, and he instantly lost interest in the mare once I tried to lead him to the correct end and completely gave up mounting at all. He did eventually figure it out on his own when I let him pasture breed the mare. But I do want this new young stud to know that I will be involved in the breeding process in one way shape or form as I plan to eventually collect him once he knows what he's doing. Any advice in this area is greatly appreciated.
Although I do not have extensive personal stallion handling experience, here are my two cents...
When you haltered the previous stallion, did you have the lead shank in the same orientation as do when you work him on the ground? Many stallion handlers place the chain through the horse's mouth when breeding, and over the nose during "regular" times. Oftentimes, a separate halter altogether is used. Many stallions learn to associate a chain in their mouth with breeding, and "know" what job that lies within the next few minutes. Also, some feel it is very important not to exchange halters with different stallions (especially breeding halters) as stallions can sense the smell of another stallion.
My guess with the previous stallion is that he may have associated the halter with ground work and not breeding, and he lost interest because he did not know it was okay to "be a stallion." In my opinion, I think it would be very important - for the safety of all involved - to have stallions haltered during live cover situations...especially since you plan to "be involved" and collect semen from him.
Stallions easily learn the routine: special halter with chain in mouth, tease the mare some, wash the penis, then breed.
So, IMO, I think you should halter the stallion with the chain in his mouth (and a "special" halter for him if possible) and lead him to the right area on the mare.
Another point: never punish a stallion for acting like a stallion (neighing, stomping, sniffing), as long as he is not hurting you or the mare. Do make him obey you if you ask him to back off for cleaning or something. It can be very intimidating to novice handlers to have a very expressive stallion on the other end of the lead! But, the breeding shed is where he is allowed to act like a stallion - within reason. Punishment for this behavior may cause him to lose interest/confidence in breeding altogether...which can be VERY difficult to overcome.
I hope I've given decent advice (please feel free to correct it - I'm still a novice myself)...let us know how it goes!
Sandy Posted From: 67.31.170.148
Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 04:20 pm:
Hi Jade, Thanks for your input. you are correct that with the previous stallion I did use the same old halter and lead that I had used on him for everyday training. I should have known better.
I have been breeding stallions for 12 years now, and pretty well know their behaviors. My prior stallion was exactly the way you say. He had a certain halter and certain lead that I would use on him whenever we bred and then a different one for everyday. And he did definitely associate his breeding halter and lead with breeding. And I never used a chain on him. I don't know if he had a bad experience with one at one time or what, but if I tried putting a chain on him at any time, he would just flip out. He handled so much better without one. My two year old did finally figure out the correct end yesterday afternoon after I had posted my first post. Today I am able to put a halter and lead on him, lead him directly to the mare, he does his teasing and then mounts and gets the job done. Well, kinda. The problem I'm having now is that he seems to be pulling out a little too soon. It seems like he is pulling out at the same time he starts to ejaculate. I have yet to figure out how to correct this problem. Maybe he will correct it on his own with time. I can only hope anyway. This is his very first time breeding, and all in all, I am pretty pleased with how he is doing. He is a perfect gentleman, and extremely easy to handle. I have owned him since he was a weanling, and he has had tons of training. He's already started under saddle and has had extensive show experience. I honestly couldn't have asked for a better stud.
Barry Posted From: 64.110.199.194
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 01:29 am:
Why are you using a two year old colt for breeding? His bloodlines must be fantastic!!!!! Please let him grow up, and prove his worthiness first with proper handling nad training.
Sandy Posted From: 4.227.133.61
Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 05:23 pm:
Actually, his blood lines ARE fantastic. I must add that I only bred him to one mare as a two year old. MY OWN mare. I had no intentions of letting him breed outside mares as a two year old. Believe me, there are plenty of folks out there who are breeding two year old stallions to a lot of mares at that age. Not only did my stallion breed a mare as a two year old, but he also underwent saddle training as well, and was showing. You have to understand that in the breeding business, you had better have something on the ground to show what your stallion can produce if you intend to do ANY type of outside breeding. I have owned this colt since he was 5 mos. old and spent a good amount of money on him, and have done extensive promoting, advertising, and showing with him. I am not going to wait around 4 years before I start making a return on my investment. That is why I bred him as a two year old. So I can have a foal on the ground to show what he can produce when he is a three year old. I will start breeding him to outside mares as a three year old next spring, and I think it's only fair to show what he can produce. Plus getting him started early and "teaching him the ropes" does not hurt him at all. His attitude hasn't changed one bit. He is currently in the pasture with 5 unbred mares, and they are all getting along quite well. Of course he has grown up with these mares too. I think he has more than proved his worthiness as a horse...but next spring when his first foal hits the ground, he will also be proving his worthiness as a sire as well.
Barry Posted From: 64.110.199.194
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 12:40 am:
All "professional" horse breeders would be shocked at your attitude regarding your investment and wanting a "fast" buck return. That is the problenm with the horse breeding business in North America....using unproven horses for breeding and the result is inferior stock. The record for the last 10 to 15 years proves it, the value of "good" horses has dropped dramatically beacause people think "if it's old enough to breed, do it". Your colt and I use the word "colt" would not even be considered for breeding in Germany until he had proven himself in a number of areas and then would be allowed to be used as "breeding stallion". Don't beleve me, go on the Net and check out what breeders are doing in Germany and Europe and see what kind of prices they are asking AND receiving. Sure hope you don't create a monster who thinks his place in life is for one thing only. The five mares he is running with, are they in foal or open, foals at their sides? This horse hasn't even begun to prove his worthiness, let alone as a sire next spring. Did you know thw dam of a foal will pass on 60 to 70% of the characteristics of her foal. The mare you bred your "colt" to, has she had foals on the past or is she also unproven? By the way what is the breeding of your future herd sire?
Anonymous Posted From: 209.215.39.11
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 03:58 pm:
Hi. I do agree with Sandy. I have a 3 year old pony stallion. I bred "Beau" last year to 3 mares, they caught foal and I did that only so I could show mare owners his offspring. This year Beau's breeding demand was very high. But I limited him. I'm ready to take bookings for next year as well. But I think that breeding a 2 year old would be fine.
Cathy Posted From: 67.129.138.2
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 08:48 pm:
I'm with Barry on this one! Cathy
Sandy Posted From: 4.228.243.199
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 01:43 pm:
Hi Barry, I understand what you're saying, but I do not live in Germany, I live in the US where you have to show something out of your stallions in order to get anywhere with them as far as being a sire goes. The mare that I bred my colt to has produced 3 foals before, one of which is currently showing on the East Coast of the US and is doing very well. I have also retained one of her previous fillies for my own breeding purposes. The other filly was born prior to my purchasing this mare and I do not know her whereabouts. I consider this mare one of my better bred mares that I own and I am striving to keep her bloodlines going the best that I can. I decided to breed her to my young stud to improve the lines even more.
I do agree with you that a sire should prove himself as a horse himself, but he should also prove that he can produce offspring that are just as good as he is. Here in the US what a sire's offspring is capable of is just as important as what the sire himself is capable of. I have every intention of showing his foal that is due next spring. I don't think all "professional" horse breeders would be shocked at my attitude of wanting a return on my investment at all. What do people breed horses for anyway? To improve the breed and to try to make some money while doing it! If I thought for one minute that I was creating a "monster" with having let him breed a mare at two years, I never would have done it. His disposition and temperment are exceptional to say the least. If he would have been all studdish prior to my even breeding him, of course I would have concentrated on his training a lot more than worrying about breeding him. The mares that he is currently running with are all open (except for the mare that is in foal to him) and none of them have foals at their side. I am able to saddle my guy and ride him right in the pasture with these mares. He definitely does not think that his place in life is "for one thing only." You say "using unproven horses for breeding results in inferior stock." Let me ask you: How do you determine whether or not a horse is worthy of breeding? Just because a stallion or a mare for that matter does well in the show world, or does well as a ranch horse or whatever the case may be, doesn't mean that their offspring will also exhibit those same qualities. I believe the way a horse becomes proven is by the offspring they produce and what that offspring accomplishes. That is how a horse proves themselves worthy of breeding quality. And how can a stallion prove himself if you don't have any offspring to show? So you train and train and show and show and spend more and more money on a stallion until he is the age of 4 or 5....he proves HIMSELF as a worthy horse....you decide to finally breed him, and his foals turn out to be crap, then what? You have a really expensive, "proven" stallion that should be a gelding! I definitely do not have the thought that "if it's old enough to breed, do it." I do not breed my mares until they reach the age of 4 years. If I thought that way, I would be breeding 2 year old fillies. But it does not hurt a stud colt to breed him at the age of 2 years if he has the correct mentality for it. As for my stud colt's breeding: He is an Appaloosa, snowcap (which is a homozygous coat pattern) and his sire is a multiple National and World Champion and has produced MANY, MANY champions himself. He is a very prominent sire in the Appaloosa world. My colt's dam has also produced World Show contenders. She is now deceased, my colt was the last foal she produced (at the age of 20).
just some info: NOT THAT I AGREE but these are facts: Versace, a top Arabian sire, was bred to 12 mares as a 2 year old. the owner say "His foals started to hit right away in the showring. When they started showing and winning like mad, we came to the decision that there was no reason to show Versace." Versace is the #2 all time leading sire of sweepstakes winners. He is #3 in halter winning foals and #2 halter sire of all time by percentages of winning halter progeny. Baske Afire is another top producing arabian sire. He bred 50 mares as a 2 year old, and 100 at 3. (WHEW!)He is the #1 all time sire of performance winning progeny. NOTE that neither one of these horses is shown, but the owners SAY they are well behaved. hmmmm.But on the other hand, they breed them year round, because of the different foaling seasons around the world. Arabians are slower to mature than other breeds, yet these horses came from winning lines top and bottom, and when they were foaled, as colts their destiny was sealed PROVIDED they could reproduce their characteristics. Now, I will wait til my colt is 3 before he is bred, although he has a full book that each and every mare owner in it would love to bump up a year, (while he is 2), but I want to do things with him first. He was not purchased for breeding, he was the last foal out of our favorite mare and we are keeping him a stallion to satisfy our own desire to continue the line for us. Ourside mares are a bonus for us. (everybody with horses can use some extra $$!) But I can't argue with Sandys business plan. I might not agree with it, but she is not alone, and it does work for many top breeders to breed and prove a colt when he is only 2. Respectfully, Z
Sandy Posted From: 4.227.133.116
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 12:05 pm:
Thank you Z for your input. Now of course I would never breed a 2 year old to 50 or 12 mares...I believe that is way too much. Unless you are breeding these mares IA with collected semen. Considering you can inseminate approx. 8 mares with one collection. I truly believe that breeding a stallion at the age of 2 seriously depends on the mentality of that horse. As I said in my previous post, if I would have thought for one minute that breeding my stud at that age was going to make him out of control or turn him into a maniac, I never would have done it. Each horse is different, and yes, there are some out there that should not be breeding at 2, because they are either 1)already acting like raging idiots at that age whenever a mare comes around or 2) they have not had any type of training as far as ground manners or learning what behaviors are acceptable.
Barry: You had asked in your last post: "The mare you bred your "colt" to, has she had foals on the past or is she also unproven?" Isn't that somewhat a contradiction of what it is that you have been saying? You have said that a horse should prove himself/herself first to determine whether they are breeding quality, and that is what makes them "proven." But then you ask whether or not the mare has had foals in the past or is she also "unproven." So, aren't you in essence also saying that a horse must have proven themselves by having offspring on the ground? I guess that just has me a little confused on what it is YOU really think makes a horse "proven."
Barry Posted From: 64.110.200.60
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:44 pm:
If you are going to breed your colt to a mare I then feel she should have already raised several foals, that at least makes the equation rise in your favour. It is very difficult to project what a foal will be like with two unproven horses (not bred). When you can see what the mare will foal and raise, that will give a person some insight as to the resulting foal as the mare places more than 50% into a resulting foal. I understand where you are coming from, I am in the same situation with my colt (2 yr. old) as far as investment and costs. I had him collected this past summer to detemine his semen quality and viability (passed with flying colors), but I decided he would not be used for breeding this year and proceeded in depth with is training and handling. In this case I am very happy this is the route I took as he has progressed very well. As the saying goes, "Each to his/her own", wish you all the best for you and your colt.
Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 09:44 am:
I realise this is an old thread but I've only just read it and wanted to comment. Not wishing to ruffle any feathers, as I believe breeding 2 yr olds is a bit like discussing politics and religion... a source of extreme disagreements! However, I will just chip in a little here as I'm currently debating whether to breed my 2 yr old colt (and before you all raise your eyebrows again, he's was National Champion as a foal, multiple winner in the show ring as a Yearling, First Premium Graded and Reserve Champion of the grading, out of a Head Stud Book mare who is a multiple National Champion in the show ring, and by a stallion who is Elite graded and a double European Gold Medallist & sire of an Olympic Individual Medallist... and breathe...)
A friend of mine is Sam Barr who you may or may not know is the godfather of event horse breeding in the UK if not the world. He has ALWAYS bred his 2 yr old colts before deciding whether to run them on or geld them. Welton Envoy (gelding) who won the Rolex a few years back covered some mares as a 2yr old (& possibly a 3 yr old) before Sam decided to cut him. Didn't seem to do him any harm!
Also, Barry, whilst I understand your sentiments I was a bit confused by your last post. Bearing in mind what is said on a number of other threads on this BB about whether stallions that are AI only are better/worse or no differently behaved than stallions who do natural cover I was suprised to see that you had had your 2 yr old collected. Surely any sexual stimulation such as being trained to a dummy or jumping a mare in order to collect semen for evaluation is going to 'teach him the ropes' and therefore develop a sexual awareness that previously may not have been there. By teaching him this stuff you have effectively opened pandora's box (no pun intended ), because he now knows 'what it's for'. Isn't it a bit irrelevant whether the semen collected was evaluated and thrown down the sink, or put into a mare to conceive a foal?
If you're serious about 'proving' your colt, you're going to have a long wait (many years of competing and lots of expense) to put a performance record on him worth having. So if you're going to wait until he's 'proven' you won't be covering any mares with him until he's at least 7. In which case, why did you bother to get him collected as a 2 yr old, when you could have waited several years until you knew he was'proven' as a stallion prospect, as you are advocating in this thread that other people should?
To me, when you use a stallion, you are buying what he produces, not the stallion itself. Therefore gievn a choice I would pick a stallion who has numerous proven offspring but little performace record himself, over a stallion with a great performance record but few proven stock on the ground. After all mare owners are buying the genes not the horse.
Obviously a proven stallion with proven offspring is the ideal, but by the time this utopia has arrived the stallion is usually on it's last legs. After all the old saying of 'a stallion gets famous 1 minute before it dies' isn't around for no reason.
Please don't get me wrong, I am NOT advocating indescriminate breeding, however, I will probably breed my 2 yr old to a select few mares for several reasons - 1. I want to see what genes are passed on and therefore if he really is a stallion prospect. 2. - I want him to have a career as a stallion and therefore need progeny 'out there doing it' ASAP.
A proven horse doesn't necessarily equate to a proven stallion, although I would agree that it improves the odds.
Very well put! Fortunately for me, I did breed my stallion as a 2 year old and got an exceptional colt on the ground by him this year....my stallion ended up passing away this year as a 3 year old during emergency colic surgery...had I NOT bred him as a 2 year old, I would have nothing left of him. We did breed him this year to a few outside mares and one of our own...so his last foal for us will be hitting the ground in 2006....Imagine if I would have waited around to make sure he was "proven" first....
Saucy and Sandy. i completely agree with you both. A measure of a stallion should be that he is able to reproduce foals that are as exceptional if not more exceptional than himself. If he is sucessful in the show ring, then even better! But if he has never even left the farm, and his progeny are excelling in the show ring... To me, that is a PROVEN STALLION! Sandy, So sorry to hear about your loss. You breed minis dont you?? The incidence of colic in these little ones is horrific isnt it?? Atleast you have a colt by him... do you have a pic or a link??
Renee, Yes, I do breed minis, but the stallion I lost was an Appaloosa (big horse). I have actually lost 2 big horses to colic and only 1 mini to colic over 13 years. But no matter what, it is hard to deal with. The stallion I lost had excellent breeding, was a total gentleman and had a good show career started, it was so sad and broke my heart. I will have to put a pic of him on photobucket...right now all I have is a head shot of him on my website. www.angelfire.com/ut2/sbr/index.htm Just click on the Appaloosa Stallions link. And if you go to the New Arrivals link there is a pic of his colt too.
Oh Sandy I'm so sorry to hear about your horse. I'd be absolutely devastated if that happened to my boy. As you said, at least you managed to get some stock from him before you lost him which is a saving grace. Good luck with them. By the way I couldn't get your link to work...
Sandy, Really?? I have lost one from colic, and know of a lot of people, that have had alot of problems with colic and minis, but rarely hear about it in "big" horses. So sorry.. you must have been devestated!! I couldnt get your link to work either.
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 11:26 am:
I have heard the same thing from numerous people and vets...colic is the #1 killer of horses. And the sad part about it is that there is no known direct cause for colic and it is unpreventable. I have also been told that founder is the main worry in minis. So many people tend to over feed the little ones. Sorry about the link not working...try this one www.angelfire.com/ut2/sbr Hope that works!
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 11:53 am:
Colic is a unfortunate situation, and for the average horse person performing surgery is out of the finanical question. With the small percentages of success of surgery most are left with a large vet bill and a dead horse. We had a severe case of colic two years ago. The vet was out at about 9 pm at night and the horse was not responding to any meds. Our vets response two hours later was to ship the horse to Purdue University (the states equine clinic--I live in NOrthern indiana) Which we knew that the horse would not make a trip of 3 hours in sub zero conditions. My husband had the vet pump the horse full with meds above and beyond the typical limits and we hoped and prayed for the best because if they horse didn't show signs of improvement with the following 3 hours then we were going to have to make decisions. Over the coarse of the following 6 hours we took turns walking the horse in the fields (snowy, sub zero winter night just before Chirstmas) as the horse seemed to tolerate the walking, but would thrash and roll if we went back into the barn-you no more than attempted to go into the barn and he wanted to lay down. We were recovering from a bad case of founder on top of it(a whole nother story) -- the horse felt no pain from his feet, the attending vet was suprized to see him moving on his feet as he did in the field. Because of this situation we also knew that surgery was out of the question let alone the cost and survival rate. Well the horse was alive the next morning (we were about dead from lack of sleep and the weather conditions)He continued to improve over the next several hours with a few more shots of med and a whole lot of rest. We thought that the horse was improving from his feet at this time, but a year later, a year of work on his feet, his body just could not tolerate the recovery process anymore, and at the age of 14 we let our baby go to a better place. His body just started to shut down, he was just giving up on life and one October morning he could not get up. He had not drank since the day before, he was losing a battle that he fought so hard for. Anyways, thats my story of our major colic experience(we have had a few minor cases-nothing like this one, only ones that required a shot or two of banimine and maybe a dose of oil). We did however get two great fillys from our fellow the spring of 05 ! Someone was looking out for us, that is the only blessing of him making it through is colic, otherwise it would have been best to let him go at this time.
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 06:02 pm:
Kim K, that is a very sad story. But as in in Sandys case, it is nice to know that you have some progeny by him before you lost him. Sandy, Disco Bandit is beautiful. And i love the little write up you put under his photo. Very touching. His little colt is nice too... I also had a look at your mini pages too. Your little overo colt is stunning!!! I love him!
Kim K...I feel for you. I know how hard it is to make decisions when it comes to whether or not to try surgery, let the horse try to recover with meds, or put them out of pain. In the case of Disco, we knew going into surgery that he had approx. a 30% survival rate. But he was so young and healthy that I had to give him the chance to fight. While we were waiting for the vets to get the operating room ready,(this was around 1 am, Laor Day) I spent time with Disco in a padded room just talking to him and loving on him. I could see the look in his eyes that he was asking for help and I still didn't know if I was doing the right thing. His stomach had become so distended at that time that he literally had a humped back. He spent 2 hours on the operating table as I watched through a window. I could see that his intestines looked pink and healthy and couldn't understand what was going on. I expected to see a dead area of intestine, something. After 2 hours (about 4 am) the vet called me into the operating room and told me that Disco was actually handling the anesthesia very well, (which they didn't think he would because of the state of shock his body was already in). That his intestines were pink,healthy and happy. But his stomach wasn't. His stomach was 4 times the size it should have been and that he had, the best they could estimate, approx. 40 pounds of dirt and rocks in his stomach that had hardened like cement. I thought for sure I was hearing things...how is that even possible? My vet asked me if I would like to feel it for myself, so I put on a glove and reached inside Disco as the vet guided my hand and had me feel everything he was finding. Disco's stomach was huge and hard, he had me feel the duodenum and told me this was the area that all of this matter would have to pass through and that it was impossible, it was approx. the size of the tip of my pinky finger. There was no way to break up this cement like material and that it is not possible to operate on a horse's stomach. He told me that they could wake Disco up, revive him and put him in recovery, but once Disco was awake and aware, that more than likely he would start to experience the severe pain again and begin to colic once more. At that time I said no, and elected to have him euthanized while he was still under anesthesia...I couldn't bear to watch him suffer any more and wasn't going to put him through it. I stroked his head and talked to him while they gave him the shot and stayed with him until his heart stopped.
Renee...thanks. We were very surprised when we our overo colt was born last year. His dam is a tovero and has always produced loud colored foals, but this was her first overo and it was the first foal by our solid buckskin stallion. We rebred her to the same stallion after she had the overo and she foaled a completely solid colt this year. Very strange.
Sandy, wow , you hate to hear others storys because they are so heart renching. Wether it is 3 years or 14 it is hard to do. We are fortunate to have had the two beautiful filly this past spring. It was a happy time in the barn yet sad as every spring when it was foaling time our stallion seemed to know that they were his babies being born. When we would have a birth in the barn, our stallion seemed to be the proudest pappa around ! We missed that sound and his presents in the barn in the spring but the end product was great. We also have a couple other mares out of him, as at the time that he bacame ill with his feet the foals were up for sale, we took them off the market and let them hang around the barn, because deep down in my heart we knew that he would not overcome the founder, it was just a matter of time. So we have a total of 4 mares/fillys that are in our breeding program or will be from our friend. (He was good at producing fillys !)
Sandy, That is a very sad story. You certainly did all you could for the young boy, and i am sure you made all the right decisions. Although even knowing this, i am sure it didnt make the loss of dico any easier.
I know that this is a very very very old post but being on the subject of colic its very sad that you guys lost horses to it. I would love to recommend a product that I use, and my friend has used for the past 15 years I think. We have never had casses of colic, and our horses look awsome! Its called fastrack and its a probiotic..if you would like more info, then please contact me at jackismacki@hotmail.com. or you can see some info on my site as well. its www.clevengerpainthorses.bravehost.com my two horses that are on there are pics of them when I first go them, so they were not on it. You may also look at my friends site with is www.americasprobiotics.com
Hi Jackie, The horse that I lost was not due to colic. He had suffered a bad case of it while recovering from founder. When I lost the stallion he had just given up. He had suffered a bad case of founder a year earlier and we thought that we had gotton through the worst of it. Over a 24 hour period he just up and his body started shutting down. We had to make a decision to put him down the following morning as he had no strength and could not get up, was dehydrated and lost the will to survive. We have actually never lost a horse due to colic and only had two bad cases of it over a 20 year span. My husband has studied and formulated our feed and it is supplemented with natural ingredents (not premade ad a scoop of this and a scoop of that type thing.) We have actually seen great growth with our feed as well as many other heath benefits. Tried to take a look at your horses, but the page was unavailable.
In my case, I don't think any type of supplement would have prevented what happened to Disco. He had approx. 40 pounds of rocks and dirt in his stomach that had hardened like cement. Nothing was going to help that stuff to pass. Nothing would have broke it down. Most of my friends think I'm nuts because I weigh my hay at every feeding. But since I've started weighing the hay, I have never had a problem with colic. What happened to Disco was just a freak occurence. Even my vet said he had never seen anything like that before. I have lost 3 horses to colic in a 14 year time period. One was a mare who colicked within about 3 days of weaning her foal. She had chronic gut problems from the time we got her. I almost knew she would die one day from colic. The other was a miniature stallion, 7 years old, had never had a gut problem a day in his life (I'd owned him since he was a yearling). Vet thinks that one may have been due to the fact that he was snacking on walnuts that were falling from a tree right into his corral. I had no idea walnuts were bad for horses, but they are. Colic is the #1 killer of horses and we as horse owners just have to accept that fact. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but we do have to accept it. And if you own enough horses for a long enough period of time, you will eventually one day lose a horse to colic, no matter what type of supplements you feed. My vet has told me that you could take 2 horses, feed them the exact same things at the exact same times of the day every day, and 1 will colic and the other one won't. If someone could ever truly come up with something that 100% prevents colic, it would be a miracle. Horses can't regurgitate, therefore they will colic. Figure out a way to make a horse vomit... then we will have a good preventative for colic
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However, I will just chip in a little here as I'm currently debating whether to breed my 2 yr old colt (and before you all raise your eyebrows again, he's was National Champion as a foal, multiple winner in the show ring as a Yearling, First Premium Graded and Reserve Champion of the grading, out of a Head Stud Book mare who is a multiple National Champion in the show ring, and by a stallion who is Elite graded and a double European Gold Medallist & sire of an Olympic Individual Medallist... and breathe...) 
), because he now knows 'what it's for'. Isn't it a bit irrelevant whether the semen collected was evaluated and thrown down the sink, or put into a mare to conceive a foal? 
