Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:55 pm:
i raise apha horses, and im beginning to think the stallion owners in our area have no respect for their boys.ive been told to use stud chains, wicked halters, posturing, get in the face tactics.i am positive that it isnt needed with a stud, they are too sensitive to things to need this. i am now on my third stallion, this one we are keeping for breeding purposes. the other two we raised and sold before breeding, both left with excellent attitudes and hearts of gold. the boy i have now is in his 2nd year. he is huge, intelligent and kind. we are doing natural horsemanship training with him and he is doing well. up until this spring he always was with all the girls, of course they taught him manners, etc. that i never could. however, we sent him out for fitting, and he came back hot and with his hormones just kicking in and topping out at 15.3 at the time. so we didnt put him in the pasture, just kept him in pipe corrals next to our then bred mares. he wasnt happy but dealt with that. eventually he went back into the pasture with the bred mares. well then we bred him to his first and second mare, it was cute and uneventful, he was a very good boy though clueless at first. here in lies the problem. we were out of the country and our caretakers told us he had broken loose from his area and gotten in with the unbred girls, there was quite a ruckus and some damage done to his back legs. and they told us there was much screaming and it was all very scary. well, when we returned home, we went to breed the next mare, and she was the one who had kicked him in the ruckus causing the stitches, and he tried to attack her (i think it was a bite now, ask later to protect himself from more damage). so we took him down to a reputable breeding facility to help with the issues, and i showed up to watch him be bred and he was rearing and acting horrible and they were hitting him with crops. they suggested drugging the mare (same one) and maybe castrating him if this didnt all work. i was horrified, took my horses home, and though i have bred him to more mares since then ( both older seasoned mares) and it was alot of work to get him to mind, he has started to get better, but i feel he is still capable of being much better (like how he was before the incident) i need to get him to regroup in his head and understand it is a good thing to breed and the girls dont have to be attacked first. i would like him to unlearn his man made issues. he is still a good boy otherwise, quiet and respectful when working, can be lunged with mares present and worked in close quarters, its just when the breeding issue comes up the headaches begin again. i have talked to other stallion owners in the area and they tell me that 'stallions are headaches and this is the way they act'. no wonder stallions have such scary reputations. i would like suggestions on retraining, classes in california, or maybe is it possible to ground collect him? he is over 16.1 and 1200 pounds of bouncing baby boy, we love him dearly and im sure there has to be a sollution
Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 04:38 pm:
Your instincts that are giving you concerns about your local "trainers" and their negative stereotypes regarding stallions are serving you well. Unfortunately, there are very few people in North America who have learned how to handle and train stallions in a positive, respectful, constructive way. Most prefer anger and conflict, and when they fail they blame the testicles and castrate.
Please email me directly - or post more information here - and I can do my best to help with some suggestions and ideas on how to get your boy back on a good track.
We have four stallions here in our training and management program, along with two mares and a gelding. They are a happy herd, get on well with each other and behave properly. All are routinely groomed and ridden by a teenage boy who is apprenticing with me. Honestly, the two mares are more "hell on wheels" than they boys are! All our boys ground collect and generally we have little fuss in our barn - except of course at dinner or when it is time for carrots!
Last night, one 9 years old stallion managed to open the latch of his stall and take a walk down the aisleway. We were in the barn office, looked out the door to see a large white butt striding down the aisle. . . oops. He went and visited the other boys, a bit of snorting and arched necks. A couple of choice words later ("hey you big brat, what the heck are you doing out here?"), and he wandered back into his stall so we could get him tacked up for his jumping session last night. No muss, no fuss.
Incidentally, this is a stallion that came to us with a very bad reputation as a "dangerous horse" that could not be handled safely on the ground let alone ridden. He had stood in a stall for most of his 6 years at that point. Now, a few years later, he is successful as a showjumper up to 1.30 meters (4 feet 6 inches), ground collects easily, and is quite easy around the barn. He's a big hog for carrots, and he keeps odd ours (keeps busy all night, sleeps until 1pm or so, likes to work most around 5pm), but otherwise he's about as easy as a horse gets. Dangerous? Only when handled poorly, that's my opinion.
Stallions managed properly are a joy to handle, ride, train, and collect. A stallion handled poorly is dangerous to himself and others around him. It is a shame that more of us humans don't develop the skills to work with the boys without resorting to surgical procedures to make them "easier" to handle.
Best holiday wishes,
D. Spink Hengststation Exitpoint "Integrative stallion management, built on respect and trust." http://www.stallions.net
elizabeth Posted From: 205.188.208.72
Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 10:53 am:
I agree with D Spink my boy is still very young but he knows he is a stallion and I have seen many who actually have to look and check out the equipment because he is so calm and good natured they can not believe he is intact.
The trainers farm has more intact boys than mares and they all are sweethearts.
no need for any of the agressive tactics that a lot people think are needed. All that does is create a mean and aggressive stallion.
I will say this that stallions in general are less tolerant of Rough handling or abuse than mares or geldings
Dana Posted From: 204.117.104.49
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 01:49 pm:
I just wandered in onto this BB and was so happy to find this discussion. I have 2 stallions - one that came with horrible behavior who has made a complete turn around. The other is just turning 4, was born here and does not act studish at all. My question is will his behavior change once I use him? At present he behaves better than most mares or geldings. Also my first stallion had been used before I purchased him so I have never used a stallion for the first time. Do you have any thoughts on what I should expect?
Candidly, I'm not at all convinced by the standard canard that a stallion who has been "used" (does he only feel like he's been used, or is the relationship just not fair from his side? sorry, couldn't resist ;-) suddenly becomes a raging sexmachine whereas before he parts with his stallion virginity, he's the perfect young man.
While sex will increase serum testosterone levels in a stallion somewhat, it's only temporary and it isn't a big variable compared to others. For example, with the lengthening days in the spring, stallions throughout the northern hemisphere are having their serum testosterone levels increase steadily. It's part of being a horse - stallions are diphasic and when spring rolls around, they come out of their slumber.
Whether they breed or not has no impact on this process (note: if anyone has seen research to the contrary, I'd be interested in the citation). In my experience, there is a tremendous amount of individual variability amongst stallions on this issue. However, I've never seen a case where a stallion changed personalities after his first breeding or collection. (side note: I have seen research showing testosterone levels varying substantially based on how many stallions are living on one barn together - one stallion tends to take primary responsibility and the others become partly inactive - which is interesting but not related directly to breeding or not breeding, at least not in the research I've read)
A not-too-secret secret is that stallions mastrubate. Usually, several times a day and usually from when they are quite young. While few stallions will ejaculate while doing this, it does appear to any observer that they are not entirely removed from enjoying the process. In other words, a stallion may be a "virgin" in terms of covering actual mares, but he's not sexually ignorant until that first breeding.
Also, remember that many of our stallions nowadays never actually cover a real, living mare. I have two stallions in our training program that have between them several hundreds of breedings. Not once has either live covered a mare. While they still woo and court mares in the barn, I seriously wonder if they'd have a clue what to do in the pasture with them! They'd figure it out eventually, so long as the mare was patient, but to them "sex" means an AV and lubricant. They see an AV and they are all business; they smell poly-lube and all systems are go. Sometimes they get excited by a particular mare, but it's nothing compared to the AV.
That said, while a few breedings (or collections) are highly unlikely to change a stallion one way or another, those stallions who have a full marebook fall into a few categories:
1. No change at all. I've seen this in many warmblood stallions, and most drafts. Breeding just isn't a big deal for them. It's like eating. . . well, for the drafts usually eating is more important!
2. More mellow. Yes, not surprisingly when we think about it, stallions that are collected or bred regularly are sometimes just overall more mellow and relaxed. We'd be guessing as to why this is true; I think they are just doing their job and aren't stressing about it.
3. More keyed-up in general. I find this occasionally in the first few breeding seasons for a younger stallion. He's trying to keep track of "his herd" all the time. He's stressed that he might lose a mare and he won't sleep just in case something happens late at night. He doesn't eat so well as he's always on patrol. I think this has less to do with breeding, specifically, and more to do with him learning how to handle his inborn instinct to "manage the herd." This can be hard for young stallions who don't really have a herd - they are isolated in a barn somewhere (which I strongly discourage) or their herd changes all the time as horses come and go from their barn.
4. Sex on the brain. Some stallions do become a bit obsessed if they are being bred alot. I have seen this only once or twice, and in both cases I tend to think it had much more to do with how they were managed and less to do with breeding. The stallions are isolated, kept in a stall, and taken out ONLY to collect. They never see other horses and have no real recreation. Thus, when they come out of their stall, the first thing on their mind is "breeding."
Stallions who are managed in a more integrative, holistic way rarely if ever become breeding-obsessed. Stallions aren't wild creatures hell-bent on breeding any horse-shaped object in sight. That's simply a projection of the beliefs of humans onto the horses. Stallions are sensitive, and they pick up on the expectations of their handlers and "human herd members." If we expect them to be sex-crazed monsters, that is often what they are. If we expect them to be responsible members of the herd - even during breeding season - most all rise to the challenge.
Finally, I find it extremely important to demand manners and proper respect during breeding with young stallions. Breeding is NOT an excuse for dangerous, flighty, or unreasonable behavior and if we allow that we are asking for future troubles. Additionally, stallions that are allowed to behave like children who have had too much Kool Aid while breeding often take these bad habits with them elsewhere.
Avoid this by teaching young stallions to be respectful during breeding and collection - just as mares would do in a pasture breeding situation. Stallions in "real" herds are NOT allowed to be kicking, rearing, striking idiots during breeding. Rather, they are taught by the mares to be careful, respectful, and efficient. That's exactly what I ask young stallions to do during collection, and once they learn these good habits they tend to carry them not just into future breeding situations but also into their non-breeding work.
This is the time of year when hormones kick in, and for young stallions it can be an abrupt transition. Older, more experienced boys tend to take the transition more smoothly. They young ones sometimes "turn on" out of nowhere. I suspect vets get lots of calls this time of year for castrations that might not really be necessary. If we are able to ride out the first bit of hormone surge, most all stallions settle into a much more manageable plane for the balance of the season. The older ones, they tend to take it all in stride.
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 09:46 pm:
D. Spink What a great post. I can truely see in your writting that you not only respect stallions you love them. I wish more people would have your insight and compassion when dealing with and handling a stallion. My young boy will be 2yrs old this March and will be started on his breeding career. In that I have never started a young colt in breeding , this is something that I have sent him to a trainer who displays the respect I want and demand when my horses both the girls and the boys are handled.
He is not isolated infact he is stalled right in the mix of all the barn activity...
He is so mellow that I prefer to handle him than my 8 yr old mare who at times can be a real witch.
He is also more demanding in that he wants attention and actually will sulk if you do not give it to him. He also will sulk if you do not give him his daily work out... He sustained an injury recently to his stifle resulting in a week or so of stall rest and he was not a happy camper when all the other horses were taken out and ridden or worked on the lunge line...
This will be his first season that he will feel the hormones kick in and we expect that he may become a little more distracted, but will deal with that when the time comes
Again your comments and post on stallions have been most informative and I turely wish that everyone would treat and handle stallions as you suggest.
Sandy Posted From: 65.58.176.27
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 04:50 pm:
I also enjoyed the post by D.Spink very much. It would be nice if everyone could think of stallions as a horse, instead of a stallion. They are always put into a catergory of their own, and it isn't fair to them. My problem is having a stallion that is TOO mellow. Like Elizabeth H. I have an upcoming 2 year old that I bought specifically for a stud. Well, he has absolutely no care in the world for the mares. He has been allowed to run with them since he was 6 mos. old and I wonder if that isn't the problem. Well actually, he will sniff at them and curl his lip occassionally, but that's about it. I even have a mare who is in heat right now, and he will put his nose under her tail, curl his lip and then go to sleep!
I know that D.Spink has mentioned that during spring time that a stallion will all of a sudden "wake up". I am very happy with my colt's disposition, but I'm afraid he will be too laid back and never do the job he's supposed to do. He was shown quite a bit last year as a yearling, and did well. He is already in training under saddle and is doing excellent, I couldn't ask for a better behaved stud colt. Am I doing too much with him and that is why he doesn't care about the girls? Should I isolate him from them for awhile so that maybe he will have an interest when he sees them again? I honestly can't say that I could ever see this colt turning into a jerk even when his hormones do kick in; he just doesn't have it in him! But it would be nice to see him exhibit "some" stallion-like behavior.
elizabeth h Posted From: 152.163.252.65
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 07:49 pm:
Sandy I would not isolate him but I would seperate him from the mares for a while.. can you but him in with a group of geldings for a while out of sight of the mares?
You know the old saying abscence makes the heart grow fonder.. It maybe very true in a youngster who has not started his breeding care and has been kept with mares.
My youngster he will be 2 on march 3 shows a lot of interest when one of the mares who is inseason looks his way.. He defintely knows there isa difference at certain times of the month.. Now he does not go bonkers or screaming his head off..
He is a very laid back young man and we anticpate he will not change much when he starts his breeding career..
good luck with your young man
Sandy Posted From: 64.158.241.52
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:54 pm:
I actually don't have any geldings at all. Just mares and another stallion. So, in order to be away from the ladies, he would have to be by himself. He has started playing with the mares lately, as if he were just horse-playing like he would another young horse. Like I say, he does show some interest, but not a whole heck of a lot. For instance, he will sniff up and down their back legs, under their tail, in the flanks, all of that good stuff, but the most he ever does is curl his lip, he doesn't "drop" or anything like that. He will not be officially 2 until the first week of May. I'm hoping once spring officially kicks in, maybe something will kick in with him too!
Anonymous Posted From: 80.2.219.45
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 01:53 pm:
I would just like to say that these posts make very interesting reading indeed. Myself and my SO have two young Lusitano Stallions, which are treated as normal horses, they are kind, generous, polite and a joy to be around. One is based with us in the UK and the other is still being trained in Portugal. In the UK stallions have a very bad reputation as being totally wild and dangerous, this is mainly as a result of humans lack of understanding and the use of draconian methods to deal with them to which they react very badly indeed. If people had a much more holistic approach and had the patience to learn what makes them tick and how to handle them then they would realise that the friendship you can have with a stallion is incomparable to anything else I have known. Personally I find mares far harder to handle
Anonymous Posted From: 206.222.195.123
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 12:30 am:
Sandy-I've raised many of my stallions with bred mares and they were very respectfull of them. They also didn't have any trouble breeding once the time came. You mentioned your stallion wouldn't be 2 until May so it could just be he does need a few more months age before all the hormones kick in. I'm not sure where you live, but perhaps your mares aren't fully cycling, yet-going by the feb. date of your post. I'm in Nebraska and we usually breed for April or May foals although have an occasional late March early June. The weather here can be bitter as late as May and since I do all pasture breeding and foaling I like to wait for nicer weather for the foals. I would be curious to know how things are going and if your boy has figured things out in the last few months. In my experience an experienced mare will show the young guys the way. Also curious as to what breed your stallion is? Some breeds take longer to mature. My experience is with Arabians who do take longer and the youngest I've bred has been 2 years and 10 months.
wendy Posted From: 206.222.195.95
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 10:01 pm:
Just have a 'stallions are mean and evil' story to tell.
I had my Arabian stallion and gelding in rented pasture with 5-6 mares. The mares weren't mine they were the pasture owners. The owners were out working on the barn with their 3 or 4 year old granddaughter. The mares weren't very friendly so they were off across the pasture. All of a sudden the owners realized the little girl wasn't in the barn with them. They ran out and there in the middle of a 100+ acre pasture was this tiny girl hugging the heads of my two. They had lowered their heads clear down to the ground so they could receive her hugs and kisses. This little girl was standing between my wild stallion and his cycling mares.
I actually, had heart failure when they told me this cause I had gotten run over by their 17 hand paint mare one day and so just in the act of horses being horses this little girl could have been hurt bad. They just put her in the back of the truck so she could still pet my two and they wouldn't have to worry about her being stepped on. Of course, my two lushes ate up all the love and attention and even when the mares went way off out of site they stayed with the little girl.
I tell you these stallions are just a menace, lol.
Sandy Posted From: 4.227.172.126
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 05:22 pm:
Anonymous, My stallion has definitely figured out what to do! He bred my TB mare in late March on her transistion heat, and she didn't settle. Don't know if it was her or him that was the cause. He has also bred one of my Appy mares and I'm still waiting to see whether or not she has settled. My colt is an Appaloosa, a snowcap, which means he is homozygous and out of a very prominent stallion in the show world. I honestly couldn't ask for a better stud colt. He has already been started under saddle and I actually bred him to a mare, took him and saddled him and rode him directly after and he was perfect. Now I'm just hoping that this Appy mare that he bred settled!
I would value your opinion as to how to train a virgin stud to cover a mare "first time"
I am sctratching my head at the moment. And worried I have totally bungled it.
Friday my older non maiden mare was in standing heat, so my assistant and I decided it was time my 3 year old colt learned his job. He was a gentleman, a latin lover and she stood like a rock while he tried to get it in and failed. Any attempt to "assist" and the boy would jump down. He started getting frustrated so we took him away planning to try the next day.
Saturday Mare still in season squirting and winking but not so willing to accept him.
We put it down to he was less of a gentleman and wanting to get straight down to business without due consideration for the mare.
But two worrying things have developed. He trys to spin around and barrel the mare when she flings out a foot to say slow down. This happened after we tried following the advice of another stallion owner not to use the anti rearing bit as it might be making him nervous (Though we stayed off his face as much as possible) This was a mistake, as he just dragged his handler like flotsam and lashed out at the mare and, I might add, nearly kicked my head in.
(My helper couldn't stay and had to go) But the Stallion needed to learn manners so in order to teach him respect I let them both lose in the round yard, where at first all he did was try chasing her and leaping at her rear end. But she sorted him out, banished him and all was quite. So in I went and I had not trouble talking to them both or petting.
Later still, I went in with a lead to get him and all hell broke loose, he started driving her again, nipping on the rump and occasionally launching at her at the run. I stood there until finally the mare turned in to me and I could lead her to the gate (with him still trying to mount) and get her out (driving him away with the lead rope.)
Her out, I proceeded to drive him round the yard till I saw his brain start to work with me again. Not Long, no trouble.
I tied the mare up (trusting her common sense ..remember I had no helper but wanted to finish on a better note than that, tho she was disgusted with me) Then I put back on his anti rearing bit and made him work with me near her for a bit before allowing him to approach her. He was a bit rushed and she told him to go with a flung out hind leg..and as I predicted the "Boy" spun around to barrel her. I was ready, got him off balance and drove him back as punishment. Made him stand and think, then more work, then another approach. This next approach he was more polite, but the same thing happened with less intensity on his part, and I caught him out again.
Third attempt to let him ask, his manners are back and when she said no, he goes OK then and stands quietly next to her.
His Background Day to day he is sensitivley handled, and performs all ground work with manners and good work ethic. He has been lightly backed. If you go in his paddock he is generally in your face and you have to watch him. At shows (prior to this event) he was a gentleman..the next show we will see?
He was run with this mare when she was pregnant and he was eight months to learn manners.
Thoughts on solution:
I have a lady contacting me tonight that has a mare that has taught a virgin stallion in a herd situation. She is considering lending me the mare who is supposed to be a "keen" one, to run with him for a week to learn, and go back to hand serving later. Catching him will have to revolve around a feed routine because he is a proper B*
My other two thoughts are send him off to a professional with my mares going aswell.
AND the usual ..put HIM under the knife... if the above two fail.
So Saga over..and me feeling like I have failed all concerned... Any , thoughts, insights, predictions of future behaviours appreciated.
I am going to go for now, take my mare and try and cheer her up with a ride out the Aussie "Bush".
I just can't believe this has all become so difficult??
Hi Elisabeth, I am sorry to hear your first attempt at breeding this colt has not gone so well. By the sounds of it, your mare may have gotten a little impatient with your boy and possibly may have also been coming out of season. All in all it looks like you have had no fun! I know when we bred our colt for the first time we used a mare who was old and experianced and whom we new would not kick out under any circumstances. A older girl whom we new could give our boy a lot of confidence. Although he was very much like your boy on his first few attempts over the first couple of days, we stayed calm and he finaly worked it out, Our bloke had a even bigger task on his hands as all his mares were quiet a bit bigger than him, so they were also in a pit so he could reach with out to much trouble. I found this also helped tremendously with his 'aim', we put the mares in a little deeper than they should have been which put him at a height where he couldn't miss the target! One of my concerns for your colt is that he has now had quiet a few bad experiances and may even become a little shy because of this (I know that if our boy had coped a few kicks on his first goes he would have been near imposable to get him to mount the same mare again and we actually experianced this problem with a out side mare who did infact kick him a few times and he refused to serve her). With our boy on his first few times, if he was a little rough with the mare (and i don't mean savage), we let him go, I didn't want to get rough with him and turn him into a shy breeder, once he had worked out what he was doing we worked on his discipline and he is now a idiot proof stallion who is very gentle with his mares and his handlers. He doesn't breed many mares a season and is ridden during the breeding season around mares without a problem. I think what you need to do is try a different 'fresh' mare who is patient and won't kick at him when she become frustrated with him. Maybe try puting the mare at a height that will be to your colts advantage (even if they are the same height) and will put him at a spot where you dont need to interact with his privates and where he just can't miss. Most young colt have terrible aim! Good Luck. Once he gets it right once you will be smooth sailing!!!
Day two we actually had them on a slope with the mare lower, had she been keener it may have worked. Lets hope I get that loan mare who may have a tad more patience. My colt is 14.3hh and the mare is 15.1hh. Will sort somthing out so I can get the mare lower for next time.
He is a pretty determined fellow, so I am hoping he dosn't become shy..but I am hoping he dosn't become nasty to the girls either - that is my main concern.
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:51 pm:
Elisabeth:
Reading your description of what happened (nice writing job!!) pretty much all of it sounds absolutely normal...not that it's right...but nothing out of the ordinary occured.
When I decide it's time to teach my stallions to breed, we start with teasing. I tease with the stallion for as long as it takes for him to learn manners.
He needs to learn to approach quietly (as quiet as a stallion with raging hormones can be), tease over the fence, talk to the mare, sniff her 'interesting parts', stand quietly and walk away.
He also learns at this time to respect me and my space and that no matter how interested he is in the mare, he needs to keep one eye and ear pointed in my direction.
Once I feel I've got good control during teasing (I'll have also handled his private parts and gotten him used to being cleaned) then we introduce the mare in a breeding situation.
For the Stallions protection, it might be a good idea to use breeding hobbles on the mare...even the most patient and horny mares can get frustrated at repeated mountings.
You might also consider slathering her hind end with KY Jelly (or a similar lubricant) so that he may accidently slip in to where he needs to be the first few times.
Positioning him straight behind her is the biggest key, and getting him to mount without diving too far forward too soon is another.
Having him strike back when the mare strikes out at him is normal, although not appropriate, but for this guy you might want to slow down and take some more baby steps and work on your training first.
L. Smith (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 72.57.15.94
Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 05:47 pm:
Recently, a client to who'm I teach riding to her niece, has asked me if I'd be interested in training her 4yr old QH gelding. Unfortunatly, after investigating this horse for a few months now (he's in the same pasture as the other 2 horses in the lessons) and 1 formal handling session, we've come to the conclusion that this horse would be better off being handled like a stallion in order to harness his power & intelligence. But, unfortunatly stallion handling is not something that I have experience in. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. Here's some information about the gelding: 4yr old QH gelding (I have my doubts though)& very stocky! Has not had formal handling since birth (backyard breeding by inexperienced horse people) and was alone from the age of 2 or 3yrs old approx. He began escaping to my client's property, after 3rd escape, owner was fed up & gave horse to said client in Spring 2005. This horse is very immature socially but is very intelligent. His brain is always "on" and he must be everywhere that something is happening. He does not like any change and will throw quite a fuss and continue until the next day when things have had a chance to sink in. He exhibits typical stallion maneurisms. He was gelded when he was 2yrs old but had an infection. Upon observation, I noticed he still had a smooth round mass the size of a golf ball, where a testicle may be. I figure it is either mass of scar tissue from the castration, a tumor or an actual testicle that never fully developed & dropped late.(I urged my client to contact vet) I believe that his body is still producing testosterone (I'm not a stallion expert here, so bare with me)henceforth his behaviour. He will tolerate his owner (my client)on his terms and really from what I've heard & seen, he's done much progress since she's had him. Such as: he will tolerate being tied in his box stall for short periods, doesn't destroy his stall (she's had to rebuild it on a few occasions, he will let her lead him for 20min max. He will let her touch him anywhere on his body but will not let her lift & pick out his hooves. This is all in the past 6 months. Also, he now let's me touch his face, neck & barrel for scratching & petting. He will let me lead him to & from the barn to the outdoor arena as long as he is with his pasture mates. Anything else he shows aggressive behaviour or tries to run off into something on purpose or run you down. If he wasn't showing progress, I'd advise for her to give him up but if we couldn't harness his intelligence & athletism/power constructively, I advised her to get out while she & her bank account were still safe.
Thank you, LMS There's more to what I've mentioned here (such as my background & what's been done to help this horse & discussions)
Elisabeth, These are some things that we do with any stallion at breeding time. We will always tease a stallion and mare next to each other in a stall first, or on two different sides of the fence. Our stallion of 14 years(bought as a 9 month old)learned that he must be a gentleman to all the ladies this way. He also learned that some wanted more foreplay than others this way. Once the mare and stallion have done their talking and he has shown interest in her we will move the mare to the other side of the fence. The fence has always helped if the mare is not strong enough to hold her footing and helps to keep the mare in place. Alot of time the stallions that we have worked with prefer to take a side approach to the mounting, this seems to keep the mare from kicking out, once the weight of the stallion is on the mare the mare has more trouble moving, the stallion seems to move to the correct postion and then finishes his job. Agian this seems helpful to keep a mare down, wether it is the end of her cycle or just that the mare likes to kick before the mount is done. Alot of talking and teasing over a fence is sometimes good. That way you keep all from getting hurt and can see if there is a interest from both parties. After the teasing, mare and stallion face to face, we will then turn the mare's hind end to the stallion so we can observe to see if there will be any kicking by the mare and will be able to act before having to react to a possible problem, and the stallion too can get a idea of how the mare will behave. And sometimes if you get a stallion to the point of no return , once he has the mare in positon, even a difficult mare can be a easy take. Best of luck, so positive work will make a huge differnce--once his knows he has your respect he will respect you too. We respect our animals but we also never forget that they are animals and very powerful ones at that.
Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.
Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
