I have an 5 year old arabian stallion that I would like to start putting out in the arena to run with some other horses. The breeder never put him out with other horses and I am afraid that if I put him out he will start a fight.
What do I do. Do I put him out with a pregnet mare? A gelding? One is very submisove and the other two were gelded late and are very protective of the place that they are ( arena, round pen, stall, etc). A yearling colt? What?
I feal so sorry for him he runs around him pen at winnies at very one when I put some one out. He needs a herd to play with? Even If it is only one other horse.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Judith
ELizabeth Hardy (12.38.198.125)
Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 12:15 pm:
Judith I agree he needs to socialize but given that he is now 5 and was not "raised" in the company of others You are right to be concerned with fighting.
Stallions are very vocal and need to be taught when this vocalization is proper and okay and when it is not...
I know it can be done ( keeping a gelding in with a stallion) but I am not sure given he is now 5 yrs old and has been kept seperated that I would recommend putting him in with other horses. I would keep him in pasture where he can see/ hear other horses though.
If you decide not to use him as a breeding stallion though I would geld him and then he should be able to be introduced to others without too much of a problem
My stallion was raised until 3 with other horses. Last year he showed so he was not pastured with others because of shoes. This year we bred,and I wanted to turn him out again, because he started getting a little nippy. We wrapped his front legs all the way with shipping boots and quilts around his knees and ducktaped them with out restricting movement. We took him out with A pregnant mare that is used to stallions. SHe double barrelled him at least 50-60 times and he did not give up.He was not too naughty just too presistant. We did not wrap the mares back legs but would next time because she did cut herself minorly just from clipping feet.. We did have to interview because of pure exhaustion. I think we will do it again, but turn two pg mares out just so he will get exhuasted not them... no one got hurt bad, but I would suggest wrapping legs. Good luck
L. Miller (208.5.212.112)
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 11:39 am:
what i have done and it worked well, was to use the stallion to breed a mare and then just let them run together. they will breed again and then when she's out of heat they just eat grass like good horses.
Anonymous (63.121.252.140)
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:36 pm:
I would not take the chance of any of my horses getting hurt. I know people do turn their stallions out with others, but I will NEVER. I do think it's important that he can see and hear the others, but any breeding I do is in a VERY controlled enviornment. I also show my stallion, so there's another reason not to. A girl I know just had to put her stallion down because a mare kicked the heck out him and broke his leg. It's just not worth the risk.
I purchased a 12yo Arabian stallion last year who was kept confined & isolated 24/7. I was told that he loves people but that he would be dangerous if I ever got him around other horses because he would forget there was even a person anywhere near. My response to that was Bulls**t! & that's exactly what it was. When I got him home, I took him off the trailer, which was between paddocks of horses whinnying & wanting to see the new horse. He squealed & postured but I gave a mild jerk (he wasn't shanked) & told him to quit & he behaved, tho he was obviously still excited. I put him in a paddock where he could see & have nose contact with other horses. He squealed & postured but never to the point of being unmanagable or a danger. After a week, I put one of my girls in with him & he's had at least one mare as company since.
This particular stallion had never been collected, yet, as long as I have someone to hold a mare, I can manually collect him by myself. Once we both have more experience with manual collection, I fully expect to collect him with no one else present. I wouldn't do this with just any stallion & I'm very cautious, but remember, this is a stallion I was told would be dangerous around other horses. The problem wasn't the horse tho, it was, imo, the management practice at the farm he came from. Horses are herd animals. They NEED contact with other horses.
I recently purchased another Arabian stallion (10yo)who fence-walked almost constantly. His previous owner was unable to put or keep weight on him. He was kept in a pasture or paddock by himself. He's been here for 2 or 3 weeks now & has been with a mare since the third day. From the first day, he's had visual & nose contact with several horses. This stallion has yet to walk the fence or pace since he's been here.
As far as the risk of injury when turning one out, while I fully understand your concern & respect your decision to protect yours, I once saw a horse killed in a freak accident when another kicked her while she was grazing, & have heard of others. Anything can happen & often does with horses.
Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 03:33 pm:
Hello All...Never put a stallion out with a mare pregnant by another stallion. Herd behavior dictates that he try and make that mare abort so he can service her. I have a friend who lost a pregancy and had an injured mare who was scared to death of stallions after that. I have been standing a leased stallion and have a prospect of my own...I am reading these posts in hopes of learning more about training my young colt to be a good boy as I hope to not only breed him but to compete him. I plan to live cover only mares I know to be easy, by hand, until he gets the hang of it. The senior stallion I do turn out with maidens...he is so good about teasing and can talk them into it better than could be done by hand breeding. He also knows how to get out of the way! I am a Connemara breeder....Kim
Jos, could you please comment on what Kim mentioned? It's something I've never heard (not to say it isn't true) & I have mares turned out with stallions other than those they're bred to. I've yet to have a problem but if this is something that's high-risk, I don't want to invite trouble needlessly.
Thanks, Vicki
Anonymous Posted From: 65.89.1.186
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 02:51 pm:
I went to a VERY well established Welsh stud farm a month ago. These people have over 10 studs and most all are EXPENSIVE imported show animals.
Guess what? She kept the stallions together in a pasture! No lie. She had 2 cobs out with two TINY section A stallions and they all just hung out in a group. No fighting. And these are ALL EXPERIENCED BREEDING STALLIONS.
In another pasture she had the YOUNG up coming stallions out with a few yearlings, and their pasture fence boarderd the other stallions.
I just purchased a stallion, a late 4 year old, and at his previous home I know he was not turned out with other horses. Firstly I turned him out with a youngster we have her who is USE to being tormented and has perfected the art of 'avoidance' and 'get away quickly'. They hit it off great. A matter of fact the gelding youngster, who is BOTTOM of the pecking order in the rest of my herd can push/boss the stud around!!!!
Nextly turned him out with one of my non bred pony mares who has had been breed many times. She told him to get away and he listened and they got along fine. Bred her, then resumed herd turn out.
Turn him out with another mare I bred him to.
My stud also gets along with our 27 year old resident gelding. Doesn't even look at him, doesnt talk to him, or posture, doesn't even get in his space. And though the old horse is somewhat of a grump, he has NEVER kicked out, I don't think he could lift his rear end off the ground! He certainly can not run fast, and yet he does make AWFUL faces. All bark and no bite!
HOWEVER I introduced the stallion to a horse I figured he'd get along well with. A gelding who couldn't give a hoot about mares, and who is very friendly, curious and kind of likes to run around and play. The stallion immediately wanted to fight with him. Who knows why, and the horse was EXTREMELY submissive. I mean as soon as I unhooked the lead rope the attitude started. I don't know WHY --- so I just don't turn them out together.
Frankly I learned that if I put them in adjoining pastures and the stallion doesn't stop posturing and acting out with in a week, it probably won't work as a turn out option.
BUT my guy is so much happier now that he has a handful of turn out buddies. He gets to RUN for FUN not pace a fence line because he is lonley and anxious. He has a friend to help defeat the flies and to groom with.
As soon as I raise a keeper of a colt (breeding prospect) I fully intend to do what the gal with the welshies did... KEEP THEM SOCIAL FROM DAY ONE! Let them learn at a VERY young age from the old bred mares HOW TO BEHAVE. Let them learn how to respect elder MALES just as they would in the wild. I think doing this from the get go insurse a more SOCIALLY adjusted animal.
So they might get banged up a little, and sure there is a chance one might get severely hurt. But you know... I think the odds are low VS horses (of any sex) are denied the opportunities to be in a herd, have squabbles and make friends. IMO
Hmm I'm not so sure about the "don't put a stallion out with a mare pregnant to another stallion" advice. Perhaps there are some really smart stallions out there, but my boys certainly can't tell which mares are pregnant to whom! I've also never heard of this in my years in horses and know it not to be true with dogs or any other mammals I know of.
In fact, there'd be a whole lot of evolutionary psychology that'd have to be rewritten if males could "smell" who the father of unborn (or already-born) babies is/was. The problem of "mate cheating" and the difficulty of knowing who the father is in nearly all species has lead to many interesting evolutionary issues - all of which would be moot if male noses were really that amazingly keen.
As to turning out stallions, two thoughts. First, I see young stallions (up to 2 years age) routinely turned out together as well as kept together inside in the same stall in Germany. This initially surprised me, but I was told it's the standard practice and the young boys growing up simply learn to deal with one another. There's some nips and scratches, but I imagine that if one of the youngsters is really too much of a punk he's probably taken out of the crew and gelded.
In terms of introducting older stallions to herd situations, I agree that pasturing (or stalling) then next to other horses so they can touch noses and "chat" for a while is good before turning out together. Our barn currently has five stallions stalled side-by side in it - all can touch noses over the stalls and all learn to talk to each other and be reasonable about it.
Since all our boys are also show horses (jumping), it's essential for them to be ok with other horses around them, even in close quarters such as small stalls side by side, on trailers with 6-8 other horses, etc. So we could not keep them isolated from each other even if we wanted to!
Stallions are purely social animals. Isolate them and the WILL go crazy, slowly or quickly. Nearly all aberrant stallion behavior I see in warmbloods comes from isolation - so many owners of stallions (mostly women, honestly) are terribly afraid of them. They think of them as violent monsters who want to kill everything, and they treat them like that. Not surprisingly, many stallions live up to expectation and become just that. It is sad.
Still, a stallion who is older and has never been turned out with other horses needs time to learn how to interact in a non-hyper way. Having a week or two to touch noses and live nearby another horse (a firm but fair mare or a solid and reliable gelding) is a good start - if they are doing ok after that, wrap front legs on both, PULL SHOES (of course), and see how it goes.
Yes, there is a risk of injury - but the risk of injury to the stallion and/or handler from a stallion who goes nuts without social interaction is also to be considered throughout his entire life. It is a question of balancing the two, and being smart and careful even when taking certain risks.
To be fair, our stallions are not turned out with other horses. They are in serious jumping training 4-6 days a week and resting in stalls otherwise, so turnout just isn't in the cards in terms of physical exercise. They also get so much daily interaction from "their people," who really are a part of their herd, that they are far from isolated. Finally, they do touch noses with each other and other horses in our barn all the time so their "horsey interaction" levels are very high even without turnout together.
Two weeks ago, two of our stallions were turned out of their stalls by a jealous person who wanted to see them hurt (long story). Despite being chased into one small stall (10 by 20) TOGETHER, these two boys (ages 7 and 9, heavy breeding usage) did almost no damage to each other until we caught them and separated them. The only real damage came from one kicking his foot between stalldoor bars during their "talking" in the stalls - and remember both had shoes on front and rear. All other "injuries" were minor nips healed after 1 week.
After the incident, I was asked about it by a vet who does lots of repro work. I told her I separated the two boys simply by walking up to them (neither had halters on and all I had was a belt to use as leadrope) and in a firm but kind voice telling them to "stop it!" and shooing one boy off while I calmed the other down enough to throw the belt around his neck and lead him into his stall. Clearly, if the two wanted to fight there'd not be a thing I could do: I am 200 pounds and they are 1200 pounds each and in much better shape than I!
The vet's response: "Oh, that is impossible. . . stallions always fight to the death, no exceptions." Huh? Well I guess our boys didn't get that memo. How would horses survive in the wild if every stallion confrontation ended in death? I am never surprised by the silly things that vets will say about stallions, sadly.
When I got my stallion at the age of 5, he had been live cover bred twice, but didn't have much training... and though I think when he was younger he was out with others, the seller didnt' turn him out with anyone (as of current).
I first turned him out with a young gelded colt that was small like him (arabs) and very submissive. They got along fine. Hunt out together... swatted flies, ate etc.
Then I started breeding him to my mares - and letting him out with the 'pregnant' mares (which they love him and he loves them).
Part of my decision to 'rotate adn swap herd mates' is because I can't stand it when 2 horses become 'buddy' bound.
HOWEVER - now my stallion HATES geldings. After being apart just a few weeks from that gelding colt... reintroducing them ended up with the stallion ATTACKING that younger pony with his mouth and biting him repeatedly. Something 'leg wraps' wouldn't have helped. I mean he ran him into the ground and bit him and wouldn't let go, despite the fact the youngster was being UTTERLY submissive and he was on the ground.
Now my stallion is barely 14.1 hands and is a light weight (arab pony) and I tried putting him out with a 17 H belgium gelding who I knew couldn't run as fast, or as 'tight' as the stud could, but I knew wouldn't put up with his 'crap' either.
Well teh stallion literally JUMPED on him like a little insect, bitting him with his ears back and making all kinds of noises. So I promptly seperated them for fear the big horse would have REALLY hurt him as soon as he got over the initial SHOCK.
If you take the risk, try putting a muzzle on the stallion. I never worried about my guy kicking... he is a BITER (not to humans and he NEVER touches a mare, even during breeding, with his teeth!)
Now my stallion CHARGES the fences if geldings are passing (or turned out on opposite sides - and I have double fencing with about 10ft of space between the pastures)... and I am seriously considering purchasing a dog shock collar, with the remote, and BREAKING him of that highly annoying and dangerous behavior. I don't want to rely on 'prevention' (ie double fencing) I want that behavior STOPPED! But I don't know if it can be.
My stallion is extremely affectionate to the mares... even the big 17 hand GRUMP mare - he yields way generously to her.
Other than that, my stud has been a joy to break and ride and is other wise well behaved and calm.
Just to comment on the stallions kept together. I raise Missouri Foxtrotters, and have two stallions, one is 3yrs, the other 6yrs. The three yr old has always been out with another horse, the 6 yr old spent a few winters with bred mares, but never other males. Last winter I kept them together from Nov1 to March1. They got along famously, the (then 2yr old) spent most of his time smacking the older stud with a rubber feed pan. There were NO MARES around, none in sight. With no competition, there were no arguments. This fall I put the same two back together (October1) and now I added a two yr old gelding (a son of the older stud) and a gelding. The two studs took right to each other like last winter. With the gelding, after a day or two everyhting was fine. At first there were some skirmishes at feeding time, nothing major. If you did not know they were two studs, you would just think one was a little dominant, some ear pinning, etc. Regular herd dynamics. As long as he eats at the first feed pan, all is well. He even lets the younger stud eat out of the same pan. I will repeat, NO mares to compete over. I no longer breed my own mares, just outside horses. People drive in and can't believe what they see. I say, lock them in a stall and treat them like a criminal and they will turn into one...
Sandy Posted From: 204.30.93.18
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 05:08 pm:
I am all for the idea of putting a young colt out with the rest of the herd so that he can be taught manners with the mares. But I have also heard that when you do this, the colt will not be aggressive enough toward the mares when he is old enough to start breeding. I have a yearling colt that is my future herd sire and he is currently running with the mares in the pasture and has been since he was 5 mos. old. He currently shows absolutely no interest in the mares, even when they are in full blown heat. So, what I'm wondering is: will leaving him with the mares as I'm doing, going to make it so that he will be timid when it comes breeding time? I have seen some other posts on this board that say that a stallion must be separated from the mares in order for him to show some interest in them when the times comes. But, I would rather let him stay in the pasture if I can at all help it, but I don't want a "wimpy" stud either. Any ideas?
Traci Posted From: 63.173.216.239
Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 09:46 pm:
I think leaving a colt out with mares is a good idea, but I would not leave geldings out there too. Some geldings can be very protective of their mares. Pasture breeding is an excellent way to teach young studs WHEN a mare is ready to breed, and when she is NOT. Expect some scrapes though, and make sure there is adequate pasture space for the herd to live in, too crowded will cause problems as well.
I personally do not put my stallion out with other horses. He has a paddock all to himself. He has been like that since he was a year old. I didn't want to put him with horses than take him away. He is stalled next to a gelding who he can sniff noses with. He is fine alone.
Reason being. Is I don't want him kick to the point of not being able to breed again.
Tho many people do put stallions with mares and geldings. Its a personal decision and what ever you decide is your decision. Good luck
Anonymous Posted From: 158.252.208.102
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 09:56 pm:
my colt ran with my mares from 4 months (when we purchased him) until early this spring. with the exception of 3 months for fitting as a yearling. we pulled him for breeding so he could learn in a safe flat environment and bred him to a couple of seasoned mares. we then bred him to maidens. he is a gentleman and quiet when being bred. he then went back into our mare herd with bred and unbred mares most who he grew up with. some he had bred, some not. the only mare he doesnt have in with him is a mare with a reputation for kicking and biting all horses around her. he is happy, is started under saddle. i can put him in a straight 2 horse with an in season mare with no issues, no vics in the nose, no nothing. i can ride him in a halter in a huge arena at our local fairground with strange mares and geldings with no issues. this after being told he would be untrainable if broke after breeding and not sociable due to breeding. this colt is 29 months old, 16.2 and 1300 pounds already. i couldnt ask for a sweeter, more well behaved stallion especially at this age. i really feel it is due to him being properly socialized and disciplined by the girls (along with lots of handling by us). however i also feel that it is the choice of mares too, i certainly wouldnt have put him in with over dominate or insecure acting horse eating mares. so i would have to say that common sense and knowing your horses (both the mares and stud) will lead you to the correct decission as to who to comingle and who not to. best of luck, just treat him with respect and never let him know he is bigger than you.
I purchased a warmblood colt april 2002 as a yearling, we tried to turn him out another yearling colt but he ended up putting it on the floor so we showed him all summer and he was very good, we then tried him with a big gelding and he also attacked him, so i now dont turn him with anyone, he is quite happy next to another with no bars or partition and even goes on the lorry fine with others, is there anything i can try ??? Also i covered a mare with him this year the first time he was very good and got on with task with no problems, after this he went to a show and decided to rear as though he was mounting a mare he was told off for it but has done it a few times since so i now lead him in a chiffney does anyone have any ideas ??? he is normaly such a nice boy. help!!!
Anonymous Posted From: 206.222.195.123
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 11:47 pm:
I have always kept my stallions with others. I think it makes them much more happy and well mannered. I think the best thing to take the 'stud' out of a stallion is putting him in with some bred mares. They will teach him his place quickly. I want my stallions to be gentleman and sweet-bred mares will teach him that. I would much rather have a 'mare-whipped' stallion then a 'slam-bam-thank-you-mam' type. I've never had a problem with overly aggressive stallions and I think pasturing a young stallion with bred mares is why.
As far as not putting a stallion in with a mare bred by another. I've done this many times and have never had a problem with it. But then again my boys learn from birth respect towards me and other horses. I've even pastured stallions with mares who had foals at side, by another stallion. In fact, when it gets close to weaning time and the mare is getting bossy with her foal the foals end up getting comfort from their 'uncle'. One time my Arabian stallion and gelding were in a huge pasture with some mares and another stallions foals. I was hollering for my guys and they didn't come. I was getting worried when the mares came running and my guys didn't. That was until I looked down into a canyon and saw my guys standing next to each other very still because three foals were laying under them sleeping. Once I hollered down the canyon the foals woke up rolled out from under my guys and the five of them came trotting up to greet me.
I've only done pature breeding and haven't had any trouble with a young first time stallion. My advise is to get a broodmare who knows the ropes and let her educate the young guy. Although, depending on the actual age of the 2 year old a few more months of growing up may help.
As far as the owner who is trying to introduce a 5 year old stallion to live with another. I would put him right next to which ever gelding or mare you think he would get along with the best. Have them both alone and seperated, but close enough to touch noses and the like. If they seem to be getting along catch both and with you holding one and someone else holding the other let them get up close and personal. If that goes ok try putting them together where they will have room to run away if one gets aggressive, but a small enough place that should you have to get in there and rescue one you would be able to. You know your horses better then anyone else and can 'read' them to see if things are working ok. I'm a firm believer in letting all horses stallions included be horses and that means being herd animals. But where your stallion isn't used to that maybe things won't work and better for him to be seperated and ok then to have a big problem come up. I do feel if it doesn't work and he can't be together with others at least keep him in a spot where he can see others and if he's ok with it can sniff noses with others. Was he only collected for breeding or did he do live cover? If he did live cover how did he handle that? If he was ok with that perhaps you could live cover a mare and then leave them together.
As far as never letting your stallion out with mares for fear of him or others getting hurt. I guess you would know your horses best, but I think that would be an aweful sad life for him to live especially if you start with him as a youngster. Granted, if you buy an older stallion whose previous owner didn't let hime be a herd animal changing his whole living situation will be hard and maybe impossible. But I don't understand, if you start with a young stallion prospect, why you wouldn't want to teach him to live in a herd situation. Trust me he will be much happier. I guess, if he or the mare are so agressive they can't be pastured together they are not horses I would want any offspring of. Temperment is top priority for me when chosing a mare or stallion for breeding.
Please-I need help/advice/suggestions regarding my stallion. He is 25 yrs old, I've had him almost a year and he is very gentle, sweet, good natured and my 8 yr old daughter rides him without problems. We purchased a mare last week for my daughter to ride in 4-H and now are problems begin! We didn't put them together at first, but let them get to know each other for a few days. We have a pasture they share now, and when they are out in the pasture together they get along fine. But when we put the halter on the mare or take her out of the pasture, he goes crazy! We had the halter and lead rope on her to take her out of the pasture and he came up behind her and mounted her, which caused a huge fight and I was in the middle of it! Its like he thinks the halter is a signal for breeding...is that possible? When we do get her out of the pasture and take her out of his sight, he goes ballistic! I was afraid he would hurt himself and run thru the fence, so we took her back to the pasture and then he settled down. I don't know what to do...now I have two horses and can't ride either one. He was used for a stud when he was young, then only occasionally from age 6 until last year. We asked the vet about gelding him and he said it wouldn't be a good idea at his age because it could kill him, and it would be difficult to do, anyway.
If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it, we are not sure how to handle this. I don't want to get rid of him, and I don't want him to hurt himself or my mare. She ignores him most of the time, but he is very posessive of her.
LegacyQuarterHorses Posted From: 207.194.22.111
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 04:53 pm:
We keep our 16HH quarterhorse stallion, who before we bought him had never been pastured with other horses, now he is in with mares and even one of our geldings at times, and there is no fighting at all.
He has many foals on the ground so has been used as a stud quite extensively.
Before we got him (first owners said this) we heard he was quite an a-hole. He lived in a stall, had minimal turnout just to be exercised, and was cantankerous.
Now he is with a few buddies, has a pasture that has access to his stall, and is an amazingly well mannered happy stallion. You would not believe the comments I get on his great attitude. People always tell me how neat it is to see a stud being treated like a normal horse. Nearly anyone could handle him, he can pasture breed or hand breed as gentle as a pussy cat, no biting the mares, just all gentleman.
I believe in treating a stallion like another horse (if this is possible), of course be more cautious around them, but not keeping them locked up by themselves. It makes for a much happier and healthy horse.
I agree completely.... I have a Paint Stallion, who I turn out with my mares all the time. He has one mare who has been his companion since she was 18 months old. It was always funny to see this little yearling filly walk over to the big stallion who had found a nice grassy spot to much on, and watch her pin her ears at him and chase him off so that she could eat. He does not get along well with alot of geldings though.... I think he views them as competition....after all, he doesn't know they can't breed his mares....all he knows is they are boys. There are a few geldings he will tolerate, but most he is aggressive toward. I regularly turn him out with the entire group of mares, but when one comes into heat, I do not turn him out with her....My mares tend to be forced forward as he mounts them, and once they start moving, they will walk aout from under him, and kick at him... All I have to do is just push on her chest to keep her from walking, and that solves the problem. I am sure they would eventually sort things out, but since he is a show horse, I don't want the battle wounds. It has helped him alot in his behaviors. When I bought him, he never got turned out with other horses. When I would take him places he would try to tease all the mares around....now that he has learned that just because there is a mare around doesn't mean it is time to breed, he is a million times better. We still have the occasional stop to nicker at a horse (often a gelding) but we can make it past an entire row of mares with out trying to sniff them all! Plus he loves to play with the herd! they run and buck, and when some of the mares lay down to sleep in the sun, he stands guard. The only bad thing is that if one of the dogs happens to wander into the pasture with the mares while the stallion is out...they better be able to run! He is ok when the mares are not around, but he wants to "protect"them from the dogs!
Liz H. Posted From: 205.188.116.21
Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 07:06 pm:
Becky you have two options talk to another vet about gelding him or seperating him in another pasture....
You got a stallion being a stallion
Another alternative is to halter and bring in both horses (you will need 2 people) and once the horse you want is secured behind a fence the other horse can be turned loose or put in a stall while you are riding the other horse.
Or you should always catch the stallion first then bring in the mare.. that way you hve control of the stallion. If you only catch the mare you have no control of the stallion and he might try a repeat performance of trying to breed her when you are leading her out of the pasture. As far as either of them running the fence line while the other is being ridden.. as long as the horse does not run through the fence I would not worry about it... It sounds also like one or both maybe a bit herd bound..which happens sometimes. ( I had an older mare who possed a safety problem when I took my then 2yr old mare out of the pasture.. she would charge at me or try to herd my mare away.. after many different ideas the only one that worked was to bring the older mare in first..put her in a stall and then bring in my mare and when I was finished with my mare both horses were turned back out together.. it was a pain , but the only safe way to do it.)
If you can not handle the stallion then ideally he should be sold.... with the addition of the mare it sounds like he is not so safe to be around any more.
Talk with another vet for a second opinion in regards to gelding if he says it is still too risky then you have too options seperate the two horses either permenantly or temporiairly or sell the stallion..
There is obviously a greater risk in gelding a 25 year old stallion - chiefly because of 'shock'. But it sounds like he's pretty fit! There is no reason why his age should make it more difficult.
When I worked for the British Horse Society, we had 3 Arabian stallions come in - one of 13 years and 2 in their 20s. We gelded the lot and the 13 year old actually took a little longer to 'recover' than the older 2. (They were gelded so they could be rehomed - the 13 year old as a riding horse and the oldies as 'companions'.)
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