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Moral Support- No help or experience!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Moral Support- No help or experience! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, this might be a bit long! I have been reading all of the posts available and taken heed of much of the good advice.

After my last horse was pts last year I decided it was time for me to get another. I saw a 16hh bay tb mare aged 16 advertised as an ex-racer (which my last mare was)and good for hacking and jumping and would suit a mother daughter share. She looked great in the pic so went to view her and she was skin and bone with bleeding withers and overgrown feet. I liked her personality and wanted to give her loads of tlc, she went to crib and she got a slap so that did it, i took her there and then, i managed to get her for beans so i was happy i was going to give her the best.

i dont ride that often so i have only walked and trotted her for 20 mins 4x since i got her at the end of nov 07.

she was getting good food and care and slowly began to recover, I was grooming away 2 weeks ago when somthing nudged my hand rather strongly and i watched and in the flank area on the nearside i could see something poking in and out then stretching out. then her whole belly jumped over and over.

so i asked someone to see what they thought and they said if she wasnt pregnant she would eat her hat.

i called the vet, who took one look at her and said - perhaps she was in foal, no real examination was carried out and i was told to stop worrying and thst if she was in foal just call if it gets stuck or the placenta is retained otherwise get on the phone and ask the former owner how pregant she is.

i rang the former owner who now informs me that she bought her with a covering for 2008 but when she got her home she had her scanned and no pregnancy was detected so she sold her, she wont hear of it that she is pregnant.

She couldnt tell me what she was covered by or when! now the mares udder has started developing, she swells up, her belly is getting lower and her vulva is relaxed, 2 nights ago i sat with her all night as she was thrashing her tail kicking at her tum, box walking and her vulva was slightly open, her urine has gone a thicker white/yellow and she only produces a little urine each time. But today she is calm.

I dont know how far along she is, how will i know when the birth is imminent? she doesnt look as big as some mares on the web i have seen nor do her udders look fit to pop yet. this is so scary!

The aforementioned horse vet is the only one around and the same one who did the scan, so obviously confidence in him is minimal.

I moved her to a new yard with better facilities but the people are less than friendly as they seem to think i am responsible for getting this old neglected mare in foal which i have explained to them i did not, so i feel all alone in this. i worry because she has only had 5 months of good feeding and is still not up to condition by a long chalk, she was half starved at the beginning that the foal will be weak and die or she will die because i dont know if this is her first or not.

not eating or sleeping myself because i am so worried for her.

Any words of comfort or advice will be appreciated, i am happy to email pics to anyone who wants to hazard a guess at a due date.

thanks for listening!
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I am new at this photobucket thing, hopefully this will be right and you will be able to seee pics of my mare form the post if not sorry and i will get someone to show me how to post pics from photobucket!

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/045.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/047.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/017.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/022.jpg[/IMG]
 

Kim Peavy/ Sweetie 7/3/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 184
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE - she looks pretty good to me, you've done a good job getting her back to some health. So sorry you are not getting any help from former owner....thank goodness you rescued her and it does sound to me like you may have a baby soon....did the vet palpate her? I wish I could help you more....Kim
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Kim he didnt, he lifted her tail and she seems to dislike men and people she doesnt know in general but for me is a lamb, i think he was put off by her reaction to him, i asked his is there anyway to tell for sure he said blood tests and palpation but he said the palp might do her more harm than good because she had just moved and he didnt want to add to her stress, i think he was scared because she gave him a kick threat when her went behind her to look at her bits. I asked for the blood test cost and he said he would get the vet nurse to call me with them - I am still waiting and when i call "I will get someone to call you right back" , he said i had better do some detective work on the mating time, but keep hitting brick walls, I asked my husband if we should try and get a second opinion but he thinks if this vet cant tell no one can! MEN!! he just keeps saying - let nature take its course but i need to know what to look for i was convinced she was going off the other night but i have a newborn baby and a 5 yr old daughter and i am living at the stable and scraping by on 1 hours sleep in evry 24 hours!! I cant go on like this and i thought if i posted pics somone might give me an idea of how close we are so i can go home and sleep! LOL!
 

Paul Liberty
Yearling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 95
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Klee,
I think you need to get a second opinion if your vet is 'scared' of your mare. Seems like he doesn't want to 'deal' with your mare. He could've palpated her or ultrasounded her, there ARE ways to get it done. That was a pretty lame excuse he gave you about the palpation doing her more harm! Is he a horse vet? Is there another vet around? I don't think I would hold my breath 'waiting for someone to call you back' if thats what they keep telling you everytime you call! Either get another vet or keep calling the one you have until you can get them to pull blood or palpate her.

Sorry, but when I hear about vets that say things like what yours did, it just gets me PO'd.
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It get me all angry too Paul especially since he knows he was the one who scanned her, i think he is a bit red faced, he didnt deny she was in foal but said it can be hard to tell how far she is given her condition, the fact that her udders are developing could mean she is day or weeks away, its so infuriating! He is a horse vet and obviously a lousy one! I have had a recommendation of a vet about 10 miles away so i will see if they can fit a visit in by the end of this week, what was your opionion on the pics
of her?

Layla
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1315
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Klee, I feel your frustration, I commend you for your wonderful job getting the mare in this good of shape thus far. She is one lucky mare to have you! I think if you saw the movement you described, I'd say she's pregnant. But it's hard to say how far along she is. There are pregnancy tests out there that tests the urine, but without knowing how far along she is, I'm not sure this will help you. I think this test is only good up to day 300.

I know that the last trimester is the most important nutrition wise. Since she's been with you during this time, I think the foal will be just fine.

I'm sorry I'm not much help, I hope others on here can be more helpful than I am. I wish you luck with this mare. I hope you get some sleep. I worry about you with a mare possibly in foal, a newborn, and a 5 year old, you have your plate very full.

Take care, I will keep you in my prayers. Please keep us posted, I'm concerned about you, probably more than the mare.
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/012.jpg[/IMG]

Rear view, her tail seems a little lower of late too.
[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/glen/047.jpg[/IMG]

ANd this image touched up to looke clearer.
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh thanks Marilyn,

that is very kind of you.

Will keep you all posted.
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1316
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She definately looks pregnant to me. I had a TB mare that I got a few years ago that was extremely thin and pregnant. I never could get much weight on her until her foal stopped drinking from her. But she had a healthy foal, but the mare didn't have enough colostrum. So you would definately want to check the foals levels to make sure she has enough antibodies in it's system.

You'll also need to give the mare her spring shots too. They say to give it a month before the impending birth. That's going to be tricky, not knowing the date of breeding.

Take care.
 

Tahra Sky 3/14
Breeding Stock
Username: Tahra

Post Number: 121
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE that is so frustrating for you. When did the vet scan her and say she was not in foal? I would count from that date to now and then ad one month. It might give you a little better idea of how far along. I would give her all her shots as if she was going to foal in the next month and start feeding her for a mother to be. Also start looking at her milk. Put it on a black surface. When it starts looking white you are on the right track. Keep us posted.
 

wanda
Weanling
Username: Wanda

Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE..that is really sad that the previous owners let her get in such terrible condition regardless of being pregnant or not..hopefully they do not have any other horses because they do not deserve them.....I have a gelding that we just took in 2 wks ago in the same condition...I am seeing a difference in him already but wanted to ask you what feeding regimen did you have your mare on to pack on the weight..
Hopefully you will get a real vet out there that will tell you for sure...we also have a mare that we were told that wasn't pregnant anymore (said she miscarried) but we adopted her and guess what..she is still very much preggers..she was really underweight when we got her too..they said it was from her miscarriage but she looks great now and is due any day now well at least we think so..she is showing all the signs...

Please keep us updated and let us know if you get confirmation..
Good job on getting her weight back up...
 

Heather Cooke
Breeding Stock
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 188
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Klee, several years ago I bought a mare that was a rack of bones 3 weeks before she foaled. The foal was a big and healthy colt and went on to be a futurity champion, state champion, APHA champion and a Superior in Halter. The mare gives everything to the foal and suffers for it. That is a good looking mare, can't wait to see the foal.

On the other hand I had a very fat 14.2 welsh cross mare that had the skinniest foal I have ever seen, she foaled on day 359 so it was not early.

From the pictures she doesn't seem all that close, hasn't really bagged up yet. I hope you can find a vet that can deal with horses, what did he charge you to lift her tail?
I wish you luck and keep us posted.
 

Jonathan Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 131
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE

I hope that you find the help and support that you need. She does appear to be pregnant.

Please give me an email and I may be able to help some. Not positive yet, just a maybe!

foalingguys@gmail.com

(Message edited by kynwatch on May 07, 2008)
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 665
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Klee,
I hope everything goes well for you. Like others have said she doesn't look that bagged up yet so you probably still have some time yet.
I am happy for you both that you were able to help her out. She will be so much better off now especially with the foal due.
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone thanks, and to answer all these questions, the vet said she was scanned august 2007 but he said there was no pregnancy then, but i have had her since 28th november on a yard with 20 mares and one gelding - who s 36, i have never seen her in season and it is impossible that it happened with me.

Feeding wise Wanda, i have her on: brekkie: is 2 scoops of alpha A (alphalpha chaff) 1 scoop of sugar beet (soaked) a scoop of slobber mash, this stuff is the irish people's best kept secret, it is used for poor doer's and racehorses, lots of fat, fibre and vits! 1.5 tiny measures scoop of 365 complete (feed balancer and conditioner) a small cup of corn oil and lots of carrots, she has a slightly smaller portion for lunch and the same sized portion for dinner, aside from this she has as much haylage as she can possible want and time out on lush grazing.

Heather it was 45 just for the tail lift, hence why hubby is reluctant to shell out for another vet!

Marilyn - we dont have spring shot's in the uk, just annual ones for influenza and tetnus - she is up to date with shots and worming.

Tahra - she would freak out if I touched her jubblies!!! cant say i am mad about milking horses either! LOL!! i may pluck up the courage to try it soon!

thanks Jonathan i will!

UPDATE:

Managed to get in touch with her last registered owners through weatherbys, she rang this evening and said unfortunately she was not the one who got her in foal, but she thinks she can contact the person who did, she bought her because she had given birth to a colt, and was so amaciated she couldnt stand and the colt nearly died of dehydration! The colt was weaned off quickly and she got her weight back up a little and sold her to someone who wanted to breed from her so from feb 07 she went to someone else - INFURIATING! Who was the person who got her covered - why isnt anything straightforward? She is going to mail me a pic of the colt and make some enquiries about the person she sold to to see if we cant get a date and a sire!

One worry off my mind at least is that she isnt a maiden at 17 years old.

The people all involved in the poor girls neglect want lining up and shooting!

Thanks everyone i will keep you all posted on progress i really appreciate you help and support, i wish the people on my yard were as nice!

L XX
 

Jane
Breeding Stock
Username: Dizzykizzy

Post Number: 251
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 03:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Layla, you are doing a fantastic job with that lucky mare!
I am in the UK too and have a warmblood mare in foal for July we think. She looks maybe slightly less round than yours and has also not wintered well. I don't know why she lost so much condition as she has been fed alfa, stud mix, sugar beet and oil twice a day right through as well as haylage all winter.
I think as others have said the mare will put her feed into the foal first....well some mares do anyhow!
We got 2 rescue mares from France last Summer and one of those has just foaled 8 months after we got her. It was a torturous wait as we had no idea when she was due and it was just a matter of checking her daily. She didn't wax up but her milk changed from clear to white in a day so we were fairly sure she was close.
Try just stroking your mare on her udder/nipples and when she is used to that you could try and squeeze a bit out. Most mares don't mind too much.
Whereabouts are you? We are in NYorks.
I will be watching this with interest now, good luck!
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 05:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI Jane!

I am in cheshire, thanks for the info about your mare its agreat help, trying to guestimate everythingn i figure when the lady sold her to the person who wanted to breed from her, it was feb as she was sold to him in mid feb that would have left her at least one season if she either A) didnt have a season in feb because it was too early in the year,

so that brings us to march, she still needed feeding up and they probably needed to see how regularly she came into season etc and plan and book the stud, and going by what the guy said who i bought her off who one time said he had her 8 months and told someone else a year - both obvious lies - i think he probably bought her august time as she was scanned at the end of august and she was for sale 1st october so i am thinking june she might be due which tally's with the vets assumption and you saying your mare is slightly less big and possibly a month behind.

Its a brain racker!!!! LOL!!

Well she is on really lish grazing and this mornign was last out at 9am and we couldnt get the gate open quick enough and she half reared up with impatience, so now i can see she is full of beans i think i should adjust her feeding but its what to do for the best, she is ususally very calm and placid, today she could have run the derby, she went out belly a wobblin and gave a buck and a cat leap, never seen her do this before! i will approach her nuppliues bit by bit as i am grooing over the week and see how far i get, will i still be able to get anything out if she hasnt bagged up properly yet??
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again sorry about my spelling, everytime i want ot make a post my baby starts! he just knows!!! LOL!

Jonathan have pm/d you, but i was reading in another post about what you do for a living at a tb stud in Kentucky, i was wandering if you had heard of my mare's great grandfather SECRETARIAT, i havn't but its the only horse in her pedigree from the USA, many are english and the is a dash of french blood too, her parents were biggish winners. does anyone have any pics of pregnant tb mares form about 9 months onwards?? Thanks!
 

Kim Peavy/ Sweetie 7/3/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 185
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE...we've ALL heard of SECRETARIAT!! LOL....one of the great ones over here......kp

That is some good bloodlines in your girl there...keep us posted on her progess...
 

KLEE
Neonate
Username: Klee

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thankyou kim, i know her mum (concorde lady) and dad (hadeer) both were proven racehorses, the secretariat horse is her gt grandsire down the sire line.

i looked him up, he was a chestnut and very handsome! i shall have to post her pedigree on here.
 

KLEE
Nursing Foal
Username: Klee

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok so to be fair to glen, here is a picture of her face, you might as well see how pretty she is now you have seen all her girl bits!

hope you like her, i wish i knew who the stallion wasbut if baby comes out half as pretty as she is it will be adorable!

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/014.jpg[/IMG]
 

KLEE
Nursing Foal
Username: Klee

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here are today's pics, i posted them because she looked much fuller in the abdo.

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/037.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/032.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/030.jpg[/IMG]

and the udders. they are not much different bit felt full in front of them rather than in them.

[IMG]http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/layla89glen/024.jpg[/IMG]

comments?
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE~She is looking preggers~ But her udder needs to fill out alot more so I think you have some time left.....
 

Jonathan Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 137
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KLEE

I have asked some friends and they have checked all the registries they could think of. She probally is not in foal to a thoroughbred. With her looks though you may get a beautiful hunter jumper prospect. When you get another few hundred pounds on her she will be gorgeous!

Let us know if the new vet works out.
 

Paul Liberty
Yearling
Username: Sptxthrill

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Klee,
She does look pregnant to me! Like Jan said her udder needs to fill out more. That pic of her standing and looking back at the 'mess' she made lol I really like her and yes she has some very good bloodlines in her.
 

Janet George
Neonate
Username: Janetgeorge

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"the vet said she was scanned august 2007 but he said there was no pregnancy then, "

Well, if she was scanned in August 2007 she'd obviously been covered - and he missed it! It happens - even GOOD vets can miss - say - on a 16 day scan if the mare ovulated late and she's only 12 days. And some mares are VERY good at hiding pregnancies - I've got one old girl my vet has to look for AGES to find it! And I bought her - supposedly empty after scanning by a good stud vet - I got a Surprise!

If it was a 14 day scan in early August (he COULDN'T miss a 28 day, surely) then you're looking at late June. Of course if he missed a 28 day, you're looking at early to mid-June.

She looks in fair condition for an in-foal TB who had a bad start to the pregnancy. I would get her onto a good stud mix and find a decent vet for advice on what jabs might be wise for the area you're in.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by a small bag - I've just had one foal tonight who had very little bag - 3 hours after foaling it's twice the size it was earlier this evening and she has milk.
 

KLEE
Nursing Foal
Username: Klee

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Janet i think he was a littl embarrassed about his gaffe! LOL sitting here all miffed now becasue the new vet coming at 1 has calle dto cancel due to a colic emergency and a leg injury emergency and asked if minded being fitted in monday! - what could i say, i cant begrudge sick and injured horses the treatment they need but i want my mare seeing to!

SUCKS



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