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Happy Derby weekend folks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Happy Derby weekend folks!!!!!!!!!!!! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 115
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you watch the Oaks here in a few minutes, you may see some of mine and Jon's handiwork.

Drink a mint julep, put on your hats and enjoy a great, soggy weekend of racing!!!!!!
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 267
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I watched all the races and it just broke my heart that Michael Matz had a horse break down in the Alysheba Stakes.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,
I have Quarter Horses but I adore TB's. My grandfather had some and was into racing back when I was little. I think once the "bug" bites you, there is no going back :-) I still subscribe to The Blood Horse just to keep up and get the Stallion Registry every year.

I picked Proud Spell yesterday. So I won a little change (on-line betting, SHHHH.... don't tell anyone).

I have to go with Big Brown today. I know the favorite is typically unlucky but he is just too strong. If they don't "hang" him on the outside for too long, but then again that didn't seem to bother him much down in Florida.

I have my simple mint syrup steeping, the roses in a vase, and the strawberries chilling.
 

Jonathan Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 120
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going with a mild long shot. Tale of Akati come on I need the money!!!
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 370
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jonathan, that's what I was gonna say!!!! Great minds......
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 240
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
Update on Matz' horse Chelokee (broke down in the Alysheba Stakes); it is a dislocation, NOT a fracture and the prognosis is moderate. His racing career is most likely over but he will have surgery and the ultimate outcome will depend on that.

(Message edited by cateowen on May 03, 2008)
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 117
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, crap!!!!!

I dunno what to say at this point. I had to quit watching the Derby coverage, it made me sick.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 657
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,
I left just after I found out about Eight Belles. This was my first time watching the Derby and I was so excited!!! Made mint julep and everything. I was happy for BB and then this. I was to sad and I knew all they would talk about was her. I was happy she came in second. Thought that was so neat for a filly.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 268
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 08:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
Update on Matz' horse Chelokee (broke down in the Alysheba Stakes); it is a dislocation, NOT a fracture and the prognosis is moderate. His racing career is most likely over but he will have surgery and the ultimate outcome will depend on that.

I am so happy to hear this. The last I heard they thought it was a fracture.
The Derby was pretty sad though.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 381
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI.TIM OR ANYONE ELSE THAT MIGHT KNOW, IAM WONDERING WHY DID EIGHT BELLES BRAKE BOTH FRONT ANKLES??ARE THEY TO YOUNG FOR SUCH HARD RIDING????THIS MAKES ME VERY SAD,POOR FILLY.
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 118
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judy

I have no answers, only theories.

The debate over this race is raging in barns, shedrows, internet discussion boards across America, and across the world today.


Was she too young? Probably

Was she out of her element? who knows, she looked like she was kicking ass at the finish line.

Was she a product of an industry that breeds for speed rather soundness and stamina? Likely

Is Larry Jones at fault? I don't think so. Hell, I would have run her in the derby if she was my filly.



I've talked to some VERY intelligent and skilled vets about this, as well as discussed it with my co-workers, and friends. The one thing that keeps eating away at me is the fact that she broke down as she was galloping out after the finish line. I don't pretend to be any smarter than Larry Bramlage, but after looking, watching and discussing, I can't believe that this breakdown didn't begin in the stretch run.


The facts are:

1. Yesterday was not a good day for horse-racing.

2. There will, for sure, be alot of questions. Most of them unanswered.

3. We (as fans) lost an INCREDIBLE horse yesterday. A horse that will continue to stir emotions long after her death.




I doubt I will ever witness an effort like that again in my lifetime, I hope I don't anyway. She gave EVERYTHING she had because she was asked to do just that. We all want a willing animal, whether it is to race, show, jump, whatever. We all spend alot of time trying to develope an animal that is willing to please us.

Are we asking too much sometimes?
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 45
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim, great post. It was such a horrible loss. She did get to end her short life doing what she obviously loved to do....running. Just such a waste of huge talent. I totally agree with your statement about the breakdown had to have started sometime during the race. I simply fail to believe that that filly was sound at the finish line. I'm sure she kept going on probably one injured foot and tried to compensate with the other until it gave way. Just made me sick...and I didn't even see it...I was about to show my horse and my friend called to tell me what had happened to her.

I am wondering what is being said around there in the industry about racing them as 2 year olds.....which usually means riding them as yearlings. As far as I've heard in the past 24 hours or so, that part of all this has upset a bunch of folks....the riding of yearlings and racing them too early as 2 year olds. Would be nice if they'd make the triple crown races for 4 year olds....at least their knees are closed....and their growth has pretty much topped out, giving less chance to injure themselves because they are trying to do too much as babies.

I breed and show Tennessee Walking Horses. Our horses do alot. When I have one that is getting ready for the training barn, I just simply do not send them there even for ground work until their joints are ready. My now 4 year old mare's knees weren't ready till she was 3. She's 16.3 hands. I just had her broke and held her back until she was ready. What if more TB race trainers did this....listened to the horse rather than the money about when is a good time to increase the training stress?

Just wondering about your opinion and what the talk is......and I wonder how her trainer is doing...that had to be such a painful loss for him, as I understand he has a fairly small operation and is diligent in the care of the horses he has. Often times, the trainers and their staff know the horses much better than the owners!

Just wondering what you think!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Yearling
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 73
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,
I think you put it quite well, and all we can do is speculate from there.
I have been watching this filly and have been bragging her up amongst others for weeks and would have been very disapointed not to see her run in the Derby and show what she was made of. I even put my money where my mouth was an had her exacta boxed with big brown.
I was thrilled when she made her move and had believed all along she would even best Big Brown, then crushed when she went down after the finish(literally in tears).
I've always loved Riva Ridge, and like he, Barbaro and this filly. I strongly believe horses like this have so much heart and drive to be winners that they sometimes push themselves beyond what their bodies can take.
They stand out above others because no one has to push them, they are born with such a strong drive to be the best.
True champions in every sense.
An absolutely devastating lose.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 242
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 08:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is horse racing. I think it was a bizarre incident, but weird things happen when you are asking two and three year olds to push their limits.

Eight Belles was a big, growthy filly that pushed herself to the extreme. Obviously she had tremendous heart and drive. Obviously she was not ready for the task. Big Brown is a bruiser and nobody was going to catch him on Saturday. I truly think he is phenomenal and will be hard for anyone to catch over the next 5 weeks.

But Eight Belles gave it her best. I think she was running on adrenaline at the end and (in my mind anyway) most likely sustained an injury to one ankle in the stretch drive---which was one brutal dash. She and the rest of the pack looked like those racing greyhounds trying to catch "Lucky". She continued galloping out, injured it further and then hurt her other ankle trying to "save herself". These horses will keep trying to run no matter what, that's what they are bred to do. Not all jockeys have the luck/strength/tenacity of Edgar Prado (when he pulled Barbaro up). A lot of the time, these horses hurt themselves and just keep "flying" on heart and adrenaline, the jockey may not realize it until "reality" crashes in.

Its no one's "fault". The filly was loved and well-cared for and everyone thought she had a shot at the Roses. NO ONE in her connections ever dreamed of this. I think the people around her are good people and Larry Jones is best known for his prowess with fillies and mares, he is one of the best when it comes to running "the girls". I honestly think if soundness had been an issue with the filly prior to the race, they would NOT have run her. Her connections are very intelligent and well-respected. And after the very public and long-drawn out Barbaro ordeal, horse racing itself did not need another "black eye" on NBC Sports on a Saturday afternoon.

But, no one could have predicted this. Its horse racing and breakdowns occur around the world on at least a weekly if not daily basis. They just aren't so public as this and Barbaro was.


(Message edited by cateowen on May 05, 2008)
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 243
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HEY TIM!
Do you know right off-hand just how tall Big Brown is? I don't think he looks overly "huge" and I say about 16.1 hands. A friend of mine says 17.0. We have a bet on (loser has to buy the tequila shots for Cinco De Mayo today :-)

I thought you might know.

Oh and on a sorta related note, Frank Whiteley, Jr. (Ruffian's trainer and also Forego and Damascus) passed away down our way in Camden, SC on Friday (Oaks Day). He was 93.

Think it is sort of well, I don't know, but he passed away on Oaks Day. Of course no one will ever forget Ruffian.

(Message edited by cateowen on May 05, 2008)
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 660
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,
I am glad you brought up the fact that she was probably breaking down before the end of the race. I had thought as much. It just makes more sense then it all happening afterwards.

Is it true that they are trying to get the jockey kicked out??
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 661
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine,
I tried looking it up but I got answers from 16.1hh-17hh. I guess we'll have to wait for Tim for the official answer. :-)

Oh, and Happy Cinco De Mayo!!!! We are eating Mexican food all day and tonight having a party!! Have fun!!!!!!!
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 383
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,thank you for the great post.Beth iam with you i wish they would move there racing age to at least 4.
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 119
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 08:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My "sources" tell me that BB is less than 17h. In other words, I don't have a clue.


Us "farm folks" have been saying for years that the Triple Crown is setup to break-down young horses. But, over the years, you just learn to accept the state of the industry. Hopefully, Eight Belles will force horsemen and racing officials alike to take a good hard look at the 3yo schedule.


Most of my connections would much rather prep for the Preakness or Belmont and bypass the Derby altogether. The race is a sentimental favorite, but that allure quickly faded this year for many of us.

I'm just a farm guy who would like to see the foals I've delivered go on to have long, sound, successful careers. These animals LOVE to run and most of them LOVE to race. I'm not sure what we can do to improve the state of the industry, but we certainly need to re-evaluate a few things.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 390
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim and All: Wow...haven't been on here since late last week and alot has happened.

I have been on the riding side, the training side and the breeding side of horse racing. And I, like you, have just loads of theories.

It is a tragedy when a great horse is lost to the sport, whether it be a colt or a filly, and there have been many tragedies. To the average person, you only hear about the really, really famous ones that make it to the broadcasting level but there are many not-so-well-known that are just as tragic.

Debates can ring all day from every angle of the world (I just looked at our local news blog on this subject and had to turn it off because I got so mad at the stupid comments from people who don't understand the sport) on if they are too young, the wrong sex, the track was good(or bad), if the trainer was right (or wrong), the jockey rode (or didn't ride) but the truth is this...its a chance. These animals are flat flying (I've been on them!!!) and there is alot of weight riding on only one leg at a time. Are their knees grown together??? Well, they are supposed to be xrayed and approved prior to their racing to confirm that they are sound.

If it were my filly would I have run her? Absolutely! My goodness but what a filly! Let's just keep in mind that this happens to colts as well. If I would have owned Ruffian (my FAVORITE TB ever) I would have matched race her as well.

I had the priviledge of "after career" owning one of the finest and most locally famous geldings in racing. He was never run on a track until he was 5 years old (I don't have a clue where he was and why he wasn't prior to 5) and he won consistently for many years like it was a walk in the park. He won enough (in "wins" only...not counting other placing) to support a barn of 150 horses in training for over 3 years. He "retired" to my home at 10 due to an eye injury (piece of flint off the track blinded one eye) that pulled him off his career. He was incredible. But, even not racing till he was 5 gave him big knees, big ankles and other "racing" scars. He died of lipoma on Christmas Eve in my arms, still fighting and running as my vet humanely ended his suffering. You can't go to the local track without everyone knowing who he was. He impacted the industry and stole the people's heart. But he was born to run. He lived to run. He wanted to run.

Its not just the track who is under scrutiny but the whole "horse competition world" in general. I would bet there are just as many 2 and 3 year-olds that break down or injure themselves in the reining, cutting, speed, jumping and other disciplines that require extreme athletic ability.

Goodness...we do it to our children when we ask Junior High and High School students to run cross country, track, play football, pitch baseball. My daughter's high school softball teammate was 1st in State as a pitcher, in her Senior year, she tore her shoulder, required major surgery and could never pitch again. So was she pushed to excel and get that sports scholarship her parents so wished for...only to succomb to injury and it all be for nothing anyway? Wow...its sure a tough call in life to make.

And look at all of us, we make that call every year we breed our mares. We take a risk.

That's why I just love everyone on here. We can look at things from so many angles and stay connected in our love for these great animals!
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 120
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've missed you Bobbi!!!!!!!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 450
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 12:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, once again you have managed to eloquently post your thoughts and I love what you said about looking at things from various angles. So right!



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