I have no knowledge of the Serammune CJ, but I did let Sugar nurse 3-4 times and then gave her 1/2 a tube of foal response. She took about 1 1/2 to 2 hours to figure out her legs enough to stand and nurse, and I wasn't sure just how much she got when she did. I gave the rest after she'd nursed 3-4 more times, per vet instructions, as he said it couldn't hurt anything.
I didn't give the whole thing at once because I'd rather she fill her tummy up with colostrum rather than me fill it up with foal response. It did seem to perk her up though.
Don't know if this helps or not, but it's what I did!
Sora, you can find info about Foal Response very easily, by googling it. I'm not disregarding your question, but the info. site is proably clearer than what I could explain.
It is not the same as Seramune, as the latter has actual anti-bodies in it. I now have both of these in my foaling kit, just in case. I also have a generic milk substitute, just in case the foal needs a little more nourishment than Mom can give, but I DON'T plan to use it unless absolutely needed. Mom's milk is usually best, after all.
I don't know about probiotics. I imagine someone can answer that question though-hummnn?
Oh, and could someone respond who has used it before? What indications does the foal give us that we ought to use it? Or does anyone just use it routinely? And are there any reasons to not use it? Appreciate any info. A lot of the google searches are ads and it would be great to have someone with experience, filling in the gaps! Please and thank-you and advance.
Sora, I re-read my post to you and I don't think I came across very well. I just meant that the difference between foal response and seramune can be seen if googled. I don't mean a comparison necessarily, but what each one is. I'm not entirely sure myself, except that Seramune has antibodies and foal reasponse does not.
I understand foal response to be used if the little ones need a boost, but again, we have to be careful giving anything orally, until they have the colostrum from Mom and we find out if it is good or not.
Okay, I've probably completley confused everyone, so I'll leave it at that and hope someone else can give a better answer to the question than me-since that is one reason I posted it in the first place!
Cj: I prefer Nursemate ASAP over the Foal Response. It contains ingredients that stimulate the appetite, as well as vitamins and other supplements. I give a whole tube as soon as possible after delivery. (In JJ's case...he was several hours old, in Moose's case...he was 30 minutes old). I have found it really does work well for me because they become quite focused on finding the groceries. Just don't freak out when they poop the flourescent yellow. I don't give probios to them unless they are having digestive issues. I also give my mares a supplement right after foaling (when I give baby the Nursemate ASAP) that is high in vitamins and iron to help them recover from their big event. Probios is nice to have on hand for them as getting rid of this large creature that had their insides all cramped up can upset their digestive system as everything moves around back into place.
Mommy's colostrum is always best and encouraging that is my number one goal. I don't step in with other things until they are necessary. Tim, I think, once said that it is hard to know when that point is and experience is the teacher. The best consultant is your gut feeling and a good vet.
Bobbi...what do you give the mare? Is it like Red Cell? Will the increased iron cause foal scours? I haven't had a problem with this, but friends say they have....giving mom too much iron causing scours in the foal. Thanks for the information.....very useful!
I give my mares a paste (looks like a paste wormer but the contents are black..yucky looking..hehe) called Oral-X B.
Its designed to have a good variety of vitamins/minerals with the added iron. I just give them one tube of it for a bounce-back effect. I haven't had much issue with scours...I get a little of it within the first 48 hours after I give it but it has not ever (knock on wood) caused an issue for any length of time. My vet is on board with it and whenever I have brought up the loose bowel issue with the foals, they smile at me and say...it beats giving enemas. Hahaha! I can honestly say that in my previous life of foaling and so far with this later life of breeding/foaling I have yet...lucky me...to ever give an enema.
Sora: I always have Probios on hand for anyone and everyone on our farm (believe it or not they have it for cattle as well). I only use Probios if I am having someone with a belly ache/uncomfortableness/colic issues/diarrhea. Probios is actually quite good for stressed horses as well who may be off their feed a little or eating abnormally. It provides some of the essential bacterias to help them maximize digestion.
Everyone's ideas are different and everyone has things that work well for them. I happen to use the same philosophy as my veterinary clinic which is "don't fix it if it ain't broke" and using minimal intervention as possible with the normal healing process. That can be a hard line to figure out sometimes.
Beth: I personally like Red Cell (I also like Go Max)...but if you're not supplementing your mare with it now during pregnancy, I don't know that I would add it after foaling. I would keep her diet as close to normal (what you're feeding now) as possible to minimize any digestion upset. Too much change can upset the apple cart.
I also always have a salt block and a seperate mineral block available to my mares year round...they use it when they need it.
We use Probios on our cattle sometimes when we have an overeating issue or some of our cows won't eat well for the first couple days after calving because they stay tucked away in the brush with their babies. So we hand grain them twice a day so they can stay "hidden" from the herd. We give them the Probios just to help them uptake the feed and get maximum benefit from it. Its a great product but I don't habitually use it if its not a necessary.
Thanks, Bobbi! I have given red cell to mares in the last 3-4 wks of pregnancy, about a half dose to minimize digestive upset. Most of mine hate it anyway and it has to be disguised!! It's supposed to taste good!
I wondered if there was an acceptable paste out there I could give one time....I'm glad we had this discussion!
You and I have the same philosophy about not messing with something when it doesn't need it.
I also keep probios, but haven't had to use it yet, as I was a bit afraid to give it to my mare recently when she couldn't push poop past her baby due to size. Corn oil helped, but birth made it all better, of course!
I also keep salt and minerals out for them in pasture and in their stalls...
Glad to hear we think alike on those things! Thanks again!
BTW, I like your Gimooseraffe....I think he's cute as can be!
Beth: You are most welcome! I think WE have a great philosophy. (Thanks on the Gimooseraffe...he is so precious. I wish I could photograph his personality, he's a true heart breaker and is going to make someone a superb life friend. His heart is so big and he loves his humans!)
I think you did the best thing with the corn oil. Moose's mommy is prone to colic and I use corn oil on her feed daily. She has not had an issue with colic since. I was a bit concerned that she might have a colic issue during pregnancy or after foaling, but so far so good.
I used to use Red Cell in conjunction with a powdered vitamin supplement but I found that in the daily long run it made some of my horses "too hot"...pumping them up just a wee bit more than I liked. I then switched over to Go Max. None of my horses like the flavor of that either. So I have to thoroughly mix it into the feed (I use Strategy & a real sticky sweet feed-my mares are on a Strategy/Youth/Sweet mix). Otherwise, they will eat around it...hahaha...picky horses! They finally decided after I mixed it well; "Fine...OK...geezzz I'll eat it".
I agree...if given free choice of salt & minerals, they know what they are lacking and craving. Sometimes I think as humans we tend to over complicate things by guessing what WE think they need. Although it is our duty to provide them with the most well balanced diet we can, they will seek out what it is they are lacking.
My Lena (due in June) mare is the "tree-eater"...she has 30 acres of good grass, alfalfa hay flakes and her grain and she still would go out and eat sapling trees. Drove me insane...couldn't figure out what it was she was lacking and craving in the trees. She was killing me with her behavior because she would eat it to the point where they were chest high and spear shaped...making it dangerous for every animal on the place for being impaled. I finally gave her a free choice round bale of brome hay and that fixed it (for now anyway). I just think she was craving some roughage (grass just wasn't cutting it)...go figure.
FYI. I checked the bottle of Seramune that I have refrigerated. Says it is good until OCTOBER 2010! Surprised me, as most liquid concoctions of that nature have a relatively short shelf life. If I don't use it this year, I can at least save it for my 2009 foal and even the 2010 foal, although I'd be a little worried about that, even with such a long shelf (refrigerator) life. Just my obsessive-compulsive nature I guess!
Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.
Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.Proud to be sponsored and supported by: