MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Fescue!!! Dead Foal; Retained Placenta

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Fescue!!! Dead Foal; Retained Placenta « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 213
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am ANGRY, PO'ed and in general just MAD AS ALL GET OUT THIS MORNING!!!!

Well, I know I sound like a broken record but I can't warn ya'll enough about FESCUE POISONING!!!

Early yesterday morning some neightbors had a mare foal right out in the FESCUE pasture (they didn't even have her seperated from the cows and two other horses).

I had no earthly idea they had a pregnant mare, I guess I just never paid attention a whole lot to what they had running out there on about 30 acres. You just pass a portion of their place on the way to our farm, and you get like a "glance" at the house, etc.

Anywho.... this mare had a baby early yesterday morning (I am amazed she had a live foal) right out in their pasture. Late yesterday afternoon, my husband drove by and saw them struggling to get it to its feet. Apparently it had not nursed at all (after about 12 hours) and wasn't wanting to get up. They were "wondering" what to do.

I went over and looked at the little thing and it was pitiful. The foal was shocky, the mare had virtually NO bag and I'm not so sure she had passed the afterbirth. The neighbor said "there isn't anything coming out of her".

What can one do? I drove on up to their house and I gave them the number to my vet and told them to call him PRONTO! That the foal needed IV's at this point and the mare needed to be checked and cleaned out. Furthermore the mare had no milk and they would need colustrum but first the baby needed to get fluids via IV's. LIKE NOW!!!! I mean I couldn't have expressed more urgency.

I was gazed at like I was from Mars and told that they knew all about calves, etc. Of course they didn't call the vet. They had already decided they needed calf milk replacer from the local Tractor Supply Store and someone else had told them to put vanilla on the mares teats so the foal would start suckling (not that it would do any good, the mare didn't appear to have much of an udder).

They at least got the baby and mare inside a shed before we had some huge thunderstorms hit yesterday evening.

But this morning, I saw where they had turned the mare back out in the big pasture with the cattle and other horses. No foal. If I had to bet money I don't think it made it thru the night. Not after what I saw yesterday afternoon and I am almost certain they didn't call any vet, anywhere.

I am just appalled at the stupidity of these people. And you can't tell them anything either. The wife of the guy "knows everything about nothing", and is a total authority on whatever topic comes up. We don't have a good "neighborly" relationship with these people due to another stupid situation about a year ago that arose from arrogance.

Now I am thinking about this poor mare all morning and whether she has retained afterbirth.

What do I do? Nothing? Keep my mouth shut? I could tell my advice yesterday was NOT welcome and they didn't listen to a thing I said. I guess you can't MAKE people call a vet.

Is this something you could call the Humane Society on? I truly think this mare may be in danger if she has retained afterbirth.

What makes this really bad is these people "got themselves a stallion" last fall and are going to breed this mare and some others this year. Of course this stallion is about half wild and they keep him in a three-strand barbed wire fence. But by God they are going to raise horses.

I am just really MAD about this whole situation and needed to vent.

But the moral of the story here is that if you have a fescue mare, please, please, please get her some help. There are shots they can give now and even pulling her off of fescue a couple of week ahead of time is better than not at all.
 

Laurie A Beltran
Breeding Stock
Username: Prophecy_ranch

Post Number: 172
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine,
I am proud to hear how you've tried to intercept the situation, those people sound like a bunch of ignorant morons!! I'm sorry but they do! I would report them every chance I got! I have a neigbor that must be related to them not with horses, dogs this family left there dang dog for over 2 weeks by itself with no one watching it when they left to go to vacation, I was so PO I went and bought food and fed her until they came back I went over there and told them would they have left there kid with no water no food to go on vacation??? They were informed the next time I would be calling the dog pound!

You did all you can do Catherine, I feel for the animal and the baby that died needlessly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY CHANCE you get tell people about how bad they are with horses!

PS_There dog is now pregnant!!!!!!!!!!! She's under 1 year
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 328
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, Outrageous! How awful. My heart goes out to you and the horses. Feeling like there is little one can do, when we know what to do, has to be the most frustrating feeling in the world!! Getting stupid people to act can be impossible.

Surely another disaster is around the corner. Are there legal requirements in your area for proper housing for stallions? I think some localities require it to be a certain height and so on. If they are violating that, then at least it will get someone over there who has some authority.

I wonder what will happen when the stallion tears through the fence?

What if you did a "rant and rave" on Craig's List? Might at least get someone's attention. In fact, any of us could all start posting comments in an effort to educate the ignorant. Some might listen.

And, I think if you can watch the mare closely-see if she starts showing signs of getting sick, you could report it to the animal shelter or SPCA.

You tried your best. One would think that any rational person would listen to someone with more information and experience than they have. And there are thousands more out there, just like them.

I guess the only solice is that sooner or later, they will give it up, because of the problems and expense. But in the meantime the poor horses suffer. Hats of to you and \clipart {waiting} to them!
 

Jonathan Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 101
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine

There are stupid people everywhere. You did what you could and they refused to listen. I hope the mare lives despite their ignorance.

If you notice anything going on with the mare you should make an anonymous call to someone!

I hope you get better neighbors in the very near future!
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 111
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with CJ as far as looking into if there are laws for fence heights. I know where I live you have to have a 6ft fence to house stallions (even my Welsh!).

How are their horse handling skills? A friend of mine videotaped a violent trailer loading episode (poor mare kept flipping over, and eventually blood started coming out of her ears), and I believe charges were pressed and the remaining horses taken.
 

Sora
Nursing Foal
Username: Sora

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine,
So sorry. So sad to see how ignorant and arrogant people are. You see stuff on puppy mills like this.

I think a lot of what you can do depends on where you are. In certain parts of the country, where I am, you can probably get their animals taken away for abuse and neglect. Other parts you're not going to get too far as people have a different view of animals.

I would definitely call the SPCA about the foal condition, the mare, and the safety of the stallion situation. They deal with these kinds of things. I would also keep notes, take pictures, do whatever you can to document an ongoing problem for future prosecution.
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1221
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 03:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, I feel your frustruation! I can't STAND it when I see stupid people mistreating their animals. I don't think their is anything you can do at this point other than document EVERYTHING so if/when something else happens you have more proof.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 292
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Problem is, you now have to weigh out your options. The police department in our area & SPCA has adopted a new policy of "no anonymous reporters"...which means that if you're going to report someone, they'll know exactly who reported. Which brings you to think about how much you REALLY want to be involved with stupid neighbors. It has been my experience, that stupid people who don't care about the animals they own, are also dangerously uncaring about people who interrupt or threaten their "relationship" with the animals they refuse to care for. Do you really want to live by a revenge seeking neighbor who knows you turned them in and got their horses taken away? Or is it possible to convince yourself that you've done all you can do by trying to help, and what they do with their animals is their business/their loss? It's a hard situation to deal with, but in the long run, having a neighbor who cuts your fences, poisons your dog, calls the SPCA on you constantly and fraudulently , etc.....just because you "butted in" isn't really worth it, is it?
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 214
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for listening to my "rant" everyone. I really needed to vent.

Nah, there isn't anything you can "do" with these people and our farm is in a Yee-Hah redneck-type of Deep South County where the understaffed sheriff and his deputies are kept REALLY busy with just the "major" stuff. It isn't a bad law enforcement, just not enough of them to go around.

To put it bluntly, there really "ain't no law 'bout animals down here". I've checked and there are no specific County ordinances pertaining to animal husbandry and the poor little "what passes for a Humane Society" in this County isn't equipped for stuff like this. I don't think they even know a whole lot themselves.

My "help" is obviously not welcome with these people, so I am just going to butt out from now on. Like I said we already had an incident with them about a year ago this past summer that you couldn't tell either of them anything---the woman is the worst, she knows all. If you don't believe it just ask her. I think that foal and the entire situation was probably "too far gone" for even my good vet to have done anything to turn it around anyway. And these are the type of people then that would blame him, me, etc.

I'm just keeping my fences good and I guess if their stallion "goes visiting" then it won't be on my property. We have woven wire to 42" with two strands of electric rope one topping the woven wire at 54" and a second toward the bottom at about 12" (so if dogs or coyotes get the "bright" idea to go digging under the fence, they will most likely get zapped in the process). We used woven wire to keep coyotes and stray dogs out (of which these people also have an abundance of). My fence charger is pretty potent and I don't think he would try to put his head over/on it more than once. My own horses are literally "fearful" of the fences :0

I know these same people's cows were getting out all winter (looking for something to eat) and I didn't have any problem with them coming over onto my place.

Ya'll are right in that these types typically "weed themselves" out at some point, but unfortunately it is always at the expense of the poor animals along the way.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 342
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, Diana makes a very good point, especially with the info. you just posted. It is maddening to be next door and not be able to intervene. Take care of yourself and one day, the time will come that something can and will be done.
 

Tim Popovitz
Breeding Stock
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 102
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine:

I feel your frustration. With very few if any laws on the books, it is difficult to hold people accountable.

We see various cases of neglect around here a few times a year, and this is HORSE COUNTRY for sure. The one thing we DO have around here is a strong sense of community within the horse world. There are various organizations that carry a bit of clout with the local law enforcement agencies and animal organizations.

In my opinion, developing that sense of community is at the heart of improving conditions for all horses in a specific area. Since there are conditions that are unique to each horse community, informing owners, trainers and breeders of various dangers and potential problems can be hugely beneficial.

It is impossible to force your ignorant neighbors to become informed members of your local horse community, but "peer pressure" and group pressure on the local animal agencies can, over time, improve awareness a great deal.

It doesn't need to be too complicated either. Maybe start an annual fundraiser for the local humane society with volunteers from the horse community. Or maybe organize a seminar with a feed company sales rep. to talk about nutrition. (Most of them LOVE to do this!!!!)

I worked in Camden SC one winter back in the 80's, and they had a VERY strong horse community for a small town. Everybody, from the smallest owner, to the big operations knew each other and often, helped each other when needed despite the fact it was a somewhat competative environment.


Just an idea

Tim
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 344
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: I agree that there is no excuse for poor animal management. If you can't afford them, don't own them. While we have all had to make decisions on "how much" we are willing to go, I believe that we take responsibility for our decisions and certainly not at the cost of suffering. I applaud your efforts to intervene and I feel your frustration that a senseless and needless result occurred. Until laws are tougher and people are properly punished, we will continue to see this behavior. Simply put, you can't fix stupid.

Just a wee little note that I wanted to add...you commented on the fact that this mare was out in a field of fescue and that they didn't seperate them out from the cows/other horses. I live in an area (including my farm) that is predominately fescue. I am educated enough to know that this poses a threat and a hazard, but like my vet says..."you can't get away from it so we have to learn to work around it"...I supplement my mares with other nutritional feed (alfalfa hay and good grain/supplements, nursemate additives) but to eliminate my mares from eating fescue is impossible. I have yet, knock on wood, had to give an injection or "fix" a colostrum/milk issue yet on my mares. (Vet and I strictly monitor this because of the fescue risk.) While we are re-seeding and working our fields over little by little to timothy and orchard grass, it will be several years before the fescue will be reduced. While fescue is not optimal, it is really the seed that carries the infection. We never let our fields go to seed and therefore attempt to reduce the endophyte issue.

On another note, we do allow for our mares to pasture foal if at all possible. They are more relaxed in that environment and we do allow for them to have a "buddy" with them. Once they foal, we monitor them very carefully to ensure that everyone is ok with the new baby. If not, switcheroos are done until everyone is content. My mares and foals have now been integrated back in with our cattle at 2 weeks of age. They are quite accustomed to living with each other and everyone is happy and content.

I just wanted to ensure that those of us who have no choice but to deal with fescue issues or those of us who successfully integrate our horses/cattle aren't all bad guys. There is no excuse ever for improper livestock management...I treat my butcher hogs with more love and dignity than these neighbors did with this mare/foal. But us livestock farmers can be good guys too!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 219
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi,
Oh I know what you mean about having to "live with fescue". That is what we have too. I can put my mares up in the barn during their last trimester and then they are sent to the breeding farm within 2-3 weeks of foaling (oh, one gal one time decided she liked it so much at the breeding farm, she actually went 5 weeks after she got there :-) Of course this is at about $20/day. She likes living the good life, believe me.)

There are shots now you can give if a mare does get left out on fescue and we live about 1 1/2 hours away from Clemson University which is a leader in infected fescue research. There was absolutely no "excuse" that I can think of for this episode, particularly their behavior after the mare did foal.

But, these people aren't even good cattle farmers, so I wouldn't even put them in the same class with general livestock people. Their poor cows starved for a good part of the winter and were "out and about" seeking food. These people also fancy themselves as big "pet" savers and have a large assortment of "odds and ends" dogs that also roam the neighborhood looking hungry. Cats galore.....well, you get the picture.

It just amazes me that they think of themselves as so "benevolent" but won't call a vet when needed. And not just for the poor horse, I don't think anything over there is spayed or neutered even. The thoughts of these people breeding a stallion is just too much.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 220
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim,
Yes I hear what you are saying about community involvement and peer pressure. Hah, these people are truly "above it all in their own minds". Particuarly the woman.

There are a good number of good farmers and general livestock people in this area that don't hestitate to CALL A VET when they need to and FEED THEIR ANIMALS. These particular people however, don't seem to feel any impact from others.

Camden is about an hour and a half away from my farm and is indeed an wonderful "horsey" community. I used to show a bit down that way and did some hunter/jumper stuff down there years ago (when I had a hunter-type mare).

We are about 45 minutes south of Greenville-Spartanburg going down I-385 toward Columbia.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 351
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: You are so right. Certainly they have NO business dealing with a stallion. And if that is the best they could do for their mare/foal as a result of their stupidity, they should be punished.

I work for the County in my state and is extremely frustrating developing laws that will "hold water" when it comes to abuse/neglect. It is almost always the same habitual people that create the problem. It seems that until we can change the mentality of those in charge that animal abuse is not JUST an animal issue and that is has been proven that animal abusers usually have other criminal activity associated with them. Its a humanity issue. We don't tolerate that behavior in our society against people, we must not tolerate it to animals that humans are entrusted to care for.

How sad...I can't imagine my cows starving, much less my horses. Due to our hay shortage this year, we had several issues with people just dropping off their animals at the sale barns with "free-can't afford to feed" signs. Although there were some people who were angry with this behavior...I'd take that over not doing anything at all. At least they dropped them off where they knew someone would take care of them.

No local ASPCA or other advocate groups in the area? (Local pounds/animal control are not always the solution to the problem)
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 363
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 01:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, I agree. In CA. now, even human babies' mothers are not prosecuted if they leave a baby in a safe place, such as a fire station or hospital.

People can really feel ashamed of their situation if they are good people who just fall on hard times or find the animal costs way more to care for than they realized. I think most poeple who do not give their animals even basic care, are either just ignorant and/or, try to make do when they should probably give the animal up.

And if they turn them over to authorities, their info. is taken, so they might feel like they are always on some list somewhere. That is no excuse for outright neglect or other mistreatment, but if they leave them at an auction yard, etc., at least the animal will be rescued one way or another.

Well, this is all speculation from my end. I still hate to see an animal suffer, regardless of the reasons or justifications made by the owners.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 224
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, well now this whole situation with these people has taken a very ugly and nasty turn yesterday.
The upshot of the whole thing is the neighbor guy SHOT HIS STALLION. KILLED IT!!

I am so upset. I can't talk about it right now, but it was THE ugly scene I was so afraid of, the horse got out and was running about the neighborhood. Came over onto my place and started trying to fight with my gelding over the fence. The stallion started striking the fence trying to get to my horses. Went on down to my yearling filly's paddock and started striking at the fence to get to her. Suceeded in tearing down a small portion of it. My little yearling filly didn't know what was going on, but suffice it to say I had images of this stallion jumping on her.
I was MAD and SCARED at this point. The neighbor guy shows up and also during this melee I am trying to keep my little Papillion dog out from under this stallion's hooves as my little Pap has decided to try and defend my yearling filly.

This stallion was having no part of being caught. Ran at me and I just got the heck out of the way.

The guy starts yelling at me "I don't know what to do. I don't know anything about horses, what do I do." The stallion is striking at my fences trying to get to my other horses, has run at me, my little dog is in this mess, so I'm mad as heck and I did say in a fit of passion "shoot him".

I then told the guy, "Look, this isn't worth it. If he hurts one of my horses OR ME, then there will be hell to pay." The guy says, "Well I can't give him away and the people that gave him to us won't come and get him."

Then, the guy just turns around and walks off leaving me with this stallion tearing about my stable area! I mean the guy just leaves and heads back to his house.

I finally get the darn stallion shooed back up the driveway and I guess he decided to go back over to the neighbors and check out his mares (the fellow is also yelling at me during the fracus that his mares are in heat and that's why this stallion has gotten out).

Anyway, I am thinking I am done with this mess and run up my driveway to shut my gate. The stallion is back over on his property. I am walking back down to the barn and BAM! I hear a shotgun, then four more shots in rapid succession.

THE GUY SHOT THIS STALLION. The horse had already went back over to his place and I don't know if it was something else that happened over there or what, but the guy did actually shoot the horse and kill him.

My nerves are so tore up because I hope he didn't do this henious thing because of something I said in the "heat of the moment", surely he isn't THAT feeble-minded.

My husband says I am worrying too much about this. He thinks the guy wanted to get rid of the animal anyway and this was a good excuse. I mean why would he do this when the stallion had already went back over to his place?

This is just crazy, but now I feel somewhat responsible for this idiot's actions. My husband says to "quit it". I didn't shoot the horse and I did the only thing I could do under the circumstances and tried to defend my animals on my land. I did get the darn thing run off back over to his property. What he did with the horse at that point is the guy's problem.

I am just so heart-sick and upset by this whole incident. Between them letting the foal die this past weekend because of stupidity and they wouldn't call the vet, and now this. What a nightmare! They don't listen to my advice about the foal, but the guy takes me literally at my words (said out of anger and fear in a very bad situation) and shoots the horse? It doesn't make any sense.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 360
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: Wow...that is sad! Like your husband said, don't take responsibility for this.

I'm going to tell you, I have a stallion that is quite the handful. He came to me as a 5 year-old without being halter broke...still isn't but we're working with him-maybe we'll be successful, maybe we won't. The difference is that WE take responsibility for him. We have done everything humanly possible to minimize any threat to our neighbors or others. He's not a BAD guy, he's just uneducated and that's not his fault (anymore than it was your neighbor's stallion's fault) its the human's fault who initially owned him. Now, what to do about it now. Honestly, where or who could you sell a stallion like this to? Noone wants to take the risk of serious injury. I can tell you, only one of the five vets at my facility is willing to even treat my stallion because of the potential for serious harm. Like I said, he's not as bad as this stallion you are talking about is. He may run a fenceline when his testosterone is elevated but he won't pummel down or through it. The other side is that even gelding an animal that is that far gone won't drastically change the already learned behaviors. Now you just have a "proud cut" gelding that is equally unworkable.

The truth of the matter is, if this were you or I, we would have this animal humanely euthanized rather than shooting him or shipping him off to the sale barns to end up in an Alpo can. But, I'm not sure what success this man, even if he chose to do the right thing and called a vet, would have had. The vet may very well refuse to come out and deal with this animal at any level.

Perhaps the end result was the only option. And...I really hate saying that. Let's just hope that these people learned a valuable lesson from this tragedy. Don't get any more!!!!!

I'm glad that everyone made it through this fiasco safely.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 377
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CATHERINE,first iam sorry you had to go threw this,but it is NOT your falt!!!i think your husband is right,he just needed a reason to get rid of his stallion,that is also the reason he did not call the vet for the foal,He said he knows nothing about horses and sounds like he has NO business haveing ANY!!!!!!!maybe this taught him a leason and he can now realize he needs to get rid of the rest of the horses...WE HOPE!!!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 225
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just feel so badly for that poor stallion. As most of us horsey people know, it wasn't really his fault, its the fault of the human's around him. I can't believe this idiot just shot the poor thing right there in his own pasture. I did say "shoot him" to the guy when he was over there trying to tear down my fences and running over my dog, etc. I was scared and upset and to tell you the truth I was worried about ME, this horse was just going about his business of trying to get to my horses and I don't think he was gentle by any means. To me this was no different than had someone let a pit bull out to run loose. Sure its not the dog's fault per se, but they can sure do a lot of damage.

I guess what keeps going thru my mind is, "Did this fool take me literally?" Obviously, something spurred him to do this. I can honestly say that if this stallion had hurt one of my horses or my dog, then I may have tried to shoot him myself, I honestly don't think I could have done it though. I do know that if he had hurt me, then my husband probably would have.

I just can't believe that the guy shot this poor animal AFTER the animal went back to his own pasture. My husbands says there has to be something else going on and the guy was just looking for an excuse to get rid of him.

As a "lovely" side note, this morning I noticed the poor mare that had foaled on Saturday morning standing out in the pasture with her tail up, straining like she was trying to pass something (not poo). These people never did call a vet with this poor baby and mare. I can't help but think she doesn't need some attention. Retained placenta is not uncommon with fescue poisoning.

Like I said previously, these people DON'T take my advice and to call the vet this past weekend, but the guy goes and shoots the horse because of me saying it when scared and the thing is over on my property trying to get to my horses? I can't wait to "deal" with his wife. She wasn't home when all this happened yesterday. She knows everything about everything and I am certain she will make this my fault. I can hear her now, "You told him to shoot him!" I have news ---I think I'm more upset about their horses dying than they are.



(Message edited by cateowen on May 01, 2008)
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 646
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine,
If it makes you feel any better I have had the same response with the bulls we had around. They were my brothers but it never failed that when he was away and I was doing his chores they would get out or better yet one of his cows would come into heat and I would then need to put them together. On many occasions I would yell at the bull threatening to shot him or turn him into ground beef. Not very effective but I was scared and upset. I never shot anybody though as it was an idle threat.
On a happier side not, happier for me anyway, those bulls are now in the freezer in one pound packages. Might sound heartless but Jersey bulls are notorious for being some of the meanest. So we would use them for our dairy cows for couple of breeding seasons then... well you know. This also kept fresh bloodlines as we often held on to the new heifers.
Thankfully the only animals I now have are dogs, cats, and horses. I really didn't get along with the cows very well.
I feel for you. Although I am not involved with neighbors like yours I can understand where you are coming from.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 378
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CATHERINE,I WISH I COULD CALL AND HAVE SOMEONE GO SEE WHATS GOING ON OVER THERE,MAKE IT MY FAULT THEY GOT CAUGHT,THOSE POOR ANIMALS NEED A VOICE.....I WISH IT COULD BE MINE!!!MY HEART HURTS FOR THOSE POOR ANIMALS THAT ARE LEFT ON THAT PROPERTY AND FOR THE ONES THAT HAD TO SUFFER THE NEGLECT OF THOSE PEOPLE!!!!!!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 389
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine, OMG. But listen, the end was bound to come. If the sheriff or animal control had come, they would have had to shoot the horse, or at the very least, dart it and then euthanize it-but I doubt they would have gone to the trouble and expense, especially with it running wild.

Your advise, eventhough in the heat of the moment and not meant literally, was the right thing to say. That was the only solution. Honestly, what alternative was there? Given the situation, the time frame, the owner's lack of knowledge, you actually made the only suggestion that made sense.

I know you didn't want it to be on your say so. But I agree that the guy wanted to get rid of it anyway. He must have realized then what he was dealing with and it must have sunk into his thick head that the horse was dangerous-he couldn't control it and he had a ton of liability by its running wild.

I'm so glad you and your horses, and hopefully everyone's horses, dogs, etc. are okay.

I'm sorry to hear about the mare. Maybe the idiot will begin to understand you just might know something aobut horses and ask for advise from someone-hopefully, a veterianarian. We can only hope.

Catherine, I think we all know how much you care. You are the woman who has her mares sent to a foaling farm, right? Because it turns you into a nervous wreck. You are a very kind hearted person and you have nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to feel guilty about. I know that feelings are feelings and they are what they are, but logically, you did the RIGHT thing, even if you didn't mean it seriously at the time. You're the kind of neighbor we ought to all have!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 416
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 02:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And another thing, the previous owner/owners, are responsible too. How irresponsible to have a dangerous stallion in the first place, then give it to a moron!
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 241
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj,
Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I love my own horses like my children --- heck, they ARE my children. I guess that is why I got so "wound up" and scared when this animal came blasting over and started picking on my horses.

Yes, I send my mares to a breeding farm to foal because I get to be such a basket case about it and at the farm they have a vet on staff (24/7) and wonderful attendants who do this full time for a living. I can't top that.

You are right 100% about people being responsible for this whole mess. Animals don't have a choice, but people do --- to GET EDUCATED! But these people already know everything (particularly the wife), so you aren't going to be able to tell them squat. Aaarrrrghhhh!

New development --- These people have a few cattle that were hungry all winter; well, then went out and got a bull over the past couple of days. I guess we will at some point have to deal with a roaming bull and of course they are going to raise more cattle.



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US