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Is baby too big???

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Is baby too big??? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Beth Sanford
Neonate
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a question or two for those who are delivering quite a few foals per year....and let me apologize now for this not making much sense, as I'm ever so sleep deprived at this point!!

I have a 17 year old mare who I got already bred in October of last year. She had proud flesh on her hind foot from an injury and it was infected, so my vet and I decided it would be best to remove it. Prior to sleeping her for the procedure, vet u/s'd her and said there was "a big ol' baby flipping around in there", found the heartbeat on the screen, and that was that. She had the surgery and eventually did well. (the proud flesh had a 2" x 2" bone spur in the middle of it growing from her pastern and she ended up with a surgically induced 2" chip fracture of the pastern after its removal. She stayed in a fiberglass cast for almost a month and then has gone to every other day dressing changes....still doing them!)

Fast forward to now. Her "due date" if you like the term 4/20 per the breeder and based on 345 days. For the past 8 days she's been getting in the floor of her stall, moaning, groaning, and even pushing...every night between midnight and 4-8am. Then she fairly well stops for the day. I'm watching on camera normally until she gets to looking so convincing that I'll slip into the barn and check on her.

During the night on Wednesday night, we had a new development....she is having problems moving her bowels and is beginning to show signs of colicky behavior. Let me add that she is absolutely enormous through the belly, larger than I think she should be for her frame. She is pooping less and has to push so hard to get that out that she may get up and down with discomfort and then strain really hard to get the stool past the baby!!! Also, every time the baby kicks her, her rectum flies out the back of her to the point of near prolapse. I'm concerned that the baby is either too big or that she could have twinned and one was below the pelvic rim for the u/s back in Oct (which would have been around 4-5 months of gestation) The vet said yesterday to give her oil in her feed to help loosen her stool and get it past the baby. He also told me to call him if I end up having to give Banamine and he will come right away. I know that the baby is sitting right on her bladder because when she poops, she immediately pees right on top of it, which is quite unusual for her.

So to my questions: anyone ever have a mare who has "runs" of labor for a week? What about her bag going up and down (9 times in a week....it's full now)? And has anyone ever had the "baby is so big she can't use the bathroom and is colicky" problem?? This one is worrying me and I've done this for nearly 25 years! Also, anyone know a way to keep me sane during all this?

Thanks ahead of time for any responses and apologies for the length of all this!
 

Beth Sanford
Neonate
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An update: she is getting oil and is moving poop, though it is not loose. She has an incredible amount of edema now and is beginning to sound as though she is breathing through a straw...a real nasal sound to her breathing. No runny nose, choking, or obstruction that I can find.

Wonder if the edema increasing as it has could be causing the wierd breathing?

Her bag is very full and she is beginning to drip the smallest bit of milk, though not continuously.

I will be talking with the vet later this morning. I just wondered if any of yall had seen this before???

Thanks!
 

Jonathan Smith
Yearling
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 52
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth

Is she pushing or just uncomfortable while laying down?
 

Beth Sanford
Neonate
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for reading all that! She'll moan and groan a while and does appear to push a time or two every once in a while. No pattern, rhyme or reason.

I'm waiting for a call back from the vet to update him.

The raspy breathing is still present this morning but has reduced. I let her move about the hallway of the barn for a while twice since she started it and the edema in her legs has reduced a bit, but not her belly. Since the breathing has gotten some better (but not gone) as well, I'm planning to put her in the arena this afternoon when the grass dries (we had thunderstorms yesterday and she stayed inside all day).

What do you think? In all the years I've had mares foaling, I've never seen one do all this!

Beth
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1192
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Edema is very common in pregnant mares and can get worse if they are not moving. Definitely get her out and lunge her a little if possible.

I don't know what to think about the nasaly breathing though, maybe someone else knows what this is?
 

Jonathan Smith
Yearling
Username: Kynwatch

Post Number: 54
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth

Not sure about the breathing. It sounds like the pushing is just her kicking out her leg every once in a while? I see this alot when the foal is laying somewhere she doesn't like or gets somewhere painful. Hopefully she will foal tonight and relieve all of these symptoms.
 

Emily West, Filly April 12th
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 587
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth, The poor girl. :-( I hope she goes for you soon.
 

Beth Sanford
Neonate
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 09:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks so much yall! She's still pregnant as of now. I seriously hoped the storms yesterday would help her decide to go, but no such luck! Tomorrow night is the full moon and she'll be 345 days. I groomed her really well today and tried to massage some of the edema to help relieve her a little. I think it made both of us feel a little bettter.

The breathing like Darth Vador through a straw is getting better, she only does it now when she puts her head down as if to graze. She still has to work hard to move her bowels past the baby, but I can tell that the oil is working and the fact that she's not obstructed by the baby or impacted is great!

Thanks again for everybody's help! I'll try to figure out how to get pics here when there's a baby. I'm not the most computer savvy person these days!
Beth
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 229
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth, has she improved any? I wish I had something to offer. Can't the vet give her a diuretic? (I wish we had spell check too Johnathan). I hope she delivers very soon.
 

Beth Sanford
Neonate
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 03:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, it's 2:20am here and there's really no changes other than she's breathing a little more labored now, chewing her sides more, and generally restless. She is pushing her butt on the wall (which is telling me she needs the counterpressure to try to be comfortable). Hopefully she'll go on into labor. Her breathing is sounding slightly funny about every other breath, sometimes every breath, but mostly just when she lowers her head like she's grazing.

She's officially 345 days today. Her milk isn't dripping, but is opaque colostrum. Her bag is hard as a brick. She is still groaning and moaning when she poops, mainly from having to push so hard with it. She got more oil tonight.

I'm worn out with pure exhaustion and worry....this one wouldn't be any different if she weren't trying to colic and having wonky breathing!

I'm not sure if I mentioned that last year's baby died...suffocated in the bag. I guess that makes one more thing to worry about with this one!

I put her buddy Sally in the stall next to her. At their previous home, they both foaled in the pasture together. Sally is 19 and is due 5/15. Hopefully that will help, as they tend to brood and look for each other when apart. I groomed her really well tonight to make her feel better; seemed to help.

I tossed around the idea of allowing her into the arena tonight since she's always foaled outside. We have so many coyotes running around that it's better for her to do this indoors, especially since I'm by myself and couldn't keep them at bay even if I slept out there with her!!!

Yall keep your fingers crossed that this baby gets here soon....he / she is giving momma (and me) a fit!!!
Beth
 

Laurie A Beltran
Breeding Stock
Username: Prophecy_ranch

Post Number: 139
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth,
My foaling vibes are being sent your way! It's funny that your mare started walking funny and labor breathing, thats exactly what happened to my mare last month. It turned out to be an allergic reaction to the last dose of shots, she improved 100% within a week. I hope your mares gives birth soon I know you must be going threw alot of worry right now!

It will happen!! Let us know how everything turns out!
 

amanda chapman
Neonate
Username: Champ

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Beth, my mare foaled 2 days ago and she was so huge, even when the foal was in position really low, her sides were still so wide, only just got through the door !she foaled at 346 days, and i got worried we might have missed twins. Anyway she foaled fine so just hang on in there !
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth, I just want to send good vibes your way. I understand your worry. It's just being a good DUHH person!

Looking forward to the announcement that she foaled and all is well.
 

Tracy Smith, Tali due 6/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fingers crossed Beth! Your poor mare sounds like she is ready for this to be over!
 

Beth Sanford
Nursing Foal
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, unfortunately, I think I have a monumental case of DUHH. Comes from 11 hours combined sleep in 18 days. That even looks ridiculous as I type it! And not leaving this farm for the past 6 days. Kinda makes you all wierd!

Lady is still breathing harder than normal, with just a small amount of Darth Vador noise. She still has to push hard to get poop out, but I think that's probably gotten about as good as it will get till this big ol baby gets out of the way. She was colicky again about 3:45 am or so....the increased moaning woke me up on the camera and I went to check on her, belly was tight as a tick and she was farting. Alot. So we went for a nice walk to ease her a bit & she farted alot more, then finally pooped, while baby kicked the fool out of her. As for me....back to bed around 7 or so....then the phone calls from well-meaning friends and relatives at 7:45...."has she had it yet?" "no" "what are you doing?" "sleep." Click. Most of them understand. Hopefully none of them will hate me later! Wonder if DUHH is an official medical diagnosis?

I put her in the arena this morning so she could exercise some....hopefully that'll help with all that swelling. Hopefully it will make her go on and do this birthin' thing so she can (hopefully) be normal again. Bear with me, I'm trying to be the eternal optimist!

I can't cross any more appendages on my body that she will have this foal today or tonight!
Beth
 

Heather Cooke
Breeding Stock
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 139
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth
Have you tried the pool test strips, especial the ph test to help you narrow down the foaling time. I foal out 4 mares by myself with half of them being maidens each year. If I didn't use them I'd go totally nuts. The test strips have been right on for me, when the ph drops to 6.2 all of my mares in the past have foaled within 8 hours. I have had 1 so far this year with 3 due in May.
Good foaling vibes and prayers to you and your mare.
 

Beth Sanford
Nursing Foal
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Heather! I got some strips and tried to test her, only to find that the bottle of strips I bought didn't have the chart telling what everything meant in with it!!! Since I'd opened the bottle, they wouldn't take it back. So I'm back to where I started on that.

Her milk has gone from the nice golden stuff to a opaque whitish/yellow tint stuff....she looks ready, hopefully she is tonight!

My next mare is due 5/15, hopefully I'll get some rest between these two, assuming there are no problems with the first one that take time to resolve. The third one is due 5/28 and the fourth due 6/28....plenty of rest between those two!!!!
 

Heather Cooke
Breeding Stock
Username: Hcvideo

Post Number: 140
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth
What strips did you get(brand)? google search the company and see if they have a website, they should have a chart online, or call the company. The ph is real helpful.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 248
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth, did she foal last night?

Heather, thanks for that info. about chart being on line. It is good to know. I'm buying some of those today, since I need to leave home anyway to buy some more food for Jewel. My mare is eating "like a horse," this past week, for the first time since I've had her, which is about two months or so.
 

Beth Sanford
Nursing Foal
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NO BABY YET!!!

However, she looks as though the baby has dropped more, now the bottom of her belly is at her knees. And her stall is absolutely full of poop this morning! Woo hoo! Hopefully she's going to go very soon, her bag has dropped more and her nipples are fuller looking (though I didn't know this was possible more than it was!)

She was up and down and sweating and kicking at her belly and chewing her sides all night....until about 6am.

Keep your fingers crossed and maybe I'll get a baby very soon.
 

Samantha
Yearling
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 90
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She sounds so ready Beth!

I'm sending good foaling vibes your way!
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 276
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth, did you get a baby last night???
 

Beth Sanford
Nursing Foal
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 01:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's still pregnant. She's miserable and I'm tired. I talked to the vet today and he told me there is nothing else to do other than hand walk her as needed and oil her feed really well until the baby gets here. Then we think the "trying to be colicky" thing will probably resolve by itself. She's getting down and appears on camera to be pushing each night around 4am for the past three nights. And the sound effects to go with it.

Her breathing still sounds funky after exertion or in the grazing position. Vet didn't like that, but said baby is just probably big. He's giving her until the end of the week to do this by herself, then he will likely intervene. I hope that's not necessary!

Keep your fingers crossed that she'll go tonight (again)....I'm sounding like a broken record, aren't I??? Never mind, it's the DUHH!

Speedymoose
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 277
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 02:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope she foals and ends her misery as well as your's. It is hard enough to go without sleep, or have an ailing horse to tend to, without it being both!

I'm thinking foal; thinking foal; thinking foal....Good luck to you and your mare. It will be such a relief, won;t it?
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 02:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, still no baby.

She has every sign she can have that she's about to lay down and have it. Even the ones that aren't in the books. I'd scream, but she'd probably hear me from the barn and put it off that much longer!!! LOL

Hoping for tonight, we have thunderstorms coming.
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lady is still pregnant. UGH!!!!

I went today and got some more pool test strips. The water hardness part showed low (200 I think??) and the ph showed 8.2 I believe, as mine was real fuschia and the guide on the bottle had shades of red. So I really didn't get far, but I know it isn't in the 6 range!

Is the 6.2 pH individualized or is this what they all drop to just before foaling?

I'm still waiting....she's still breathing like Darth Vador and straining some to poop, even though she's getting TONS of corn oil in her feed (she ate a gallon in one week). I'm pretty sure my vet will be as happy as I will be when she delivers and everything is ok....I haven't ever talked to him this many times in a week! He said there's nothing else we can do to keep her from being colicky off and on and that he'll likely help her along the first of next week if she hasn't had it by then! According to the breeder, she's always had her babies at day 340-342...We are at day 349 and counting!!

The DUHH isn't getting any better. What can I do for it....comfort measures only? Drink my weight in Crown Royal? Run screaming into the night, or oncoming traffic, whichever???? LOL
 

amanda chapman
Neonate
Username: Champ

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth , i really feel for you, lets hope she foals tonight, then you can get some sleep !
 

Mood Swings
Breeding Stock
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You poor thing! I can only imagine how you must be feeling after so little sleep. Do you still love your mare? LOL :-) Hope she finally foals for you tonight!
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heeheehee! Yes, I still love her! She's been through a whole lot since I got her in October. We bonded. Sleep would be great. Don't remember what it is like to have 8 hours sleep, though....and won't until August or so...there's still 3 more after this one! They should be better though...I hope!!!!

Continuing to watch and wait....
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 32
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 06:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IT'S A FILLY!!!!!!!

I went to the barn around 11pm and Lady had company in the stall!!! She's sorrell with a tiny star and legs for miles!

I went up there to test her milk to see if we were any closer!

I'll have to send the pics from my phone to someone here, as I cannot get them to post. My e-mail won't even let me view the ones I sent myself!!!
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1008
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you send them to me ill post them for you
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni...I sent three e-mails with the pics attached. Thanks so much for posting them! I still need a barn name...nothing sticks!
 

Jane
Breeding Stock
Username: Dizzykizzy

Post Number: 238
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 01:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, congratulations. How nice and easy after all the fretting!!
Pics soon please.
It took us about 5 days to settle on a name for Maybelline's foal.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im downloading the pics now Ill have them up in a few minutes.
I gave mine the papered name and the kids gave him the barn name. I think they did well they call him Catcher
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1012
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok here are the pics
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2881179790100781181tYjYMZ?vhost=good-times
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2233137300100781181DNBhmG?vhost=good-times
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2483140740100781181QVjwyk?vhost=good-times

She looks like a Penny to me. love those legs very pretty girl
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 633
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 02:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats on a cute little filly!!!!
 

Beth Sanford
Weanling
Username: Speedymoose

Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks! She is so sweet!



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