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Retained partial placenta....after problems?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Retained partial placenta....after problems? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Christie Miller
Weanling
Username: Gallamist

Post Number: 21
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare foaled on Monday (june 4th). A friend was taking care while I was away in BC.

She checked the mares vulva to make sure there was no tears or anything and when doing so noticed what appeared to be tampon like string hanging out. She called the vet right away knowing it was part of the placenta and that is not good.

The vet came out, mare had a shot of oxytocin (given before the vet came) and once the vet got here she cleaned my mare out but did NOT flush her out????

Shouldn't she of been flushed out? I had a mare here a few weeks ago retain her whole placenta and she had 3 days of flushing.

Now I notice that there is some discharge coming from the mare. Should I be worried about this? I have put a call into the vet but, thought I would ask here as well.

Thanks everyone!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the placenta cleared reasonably quickly following the oxytocin injection there would probably be no benefit to a lavage. Research has indicated that post-foaling uterine lavage has no benefit, and in fact potential for negative impact, if performed in the absence of a specific problem for which lavage is indicated as a treatment.
 

Christie Miller
Weanling
Username: Gallamist

Post Number: 22
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos you lost me with "Lavage"
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Lavage" is where fluid is run into and then out of the mare. This is as opposed to an "infusion" where fluid (typically with an antibiotic in it) is simply run into the mare and allowed to find it's own way out or is absorbed. These terms can technically apply to any portion of the anatomy, but in this instance we are of course talking about a uterine lavage or infusion. The common term "flush" may be used to describe either, but is more often used to describe a lavage. As I hate confusion, I tend to use the technical terms... :-)
 

Christie Miller
Weanling
Username: Gallamist

Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh ok got ya Jos....thanks!.....lol...
 

Cheryl Johnson
Weanling
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just read this and it made me wonder about post-partum hemorrhage and the cervix/uterus contracting properly. I know in humans that if part of the placenta is retained, the cervix can remain open and a hemorrhge will occur at that time.

So how does this work with a mare? How can we tell if the uterus is contracting/convoluting back to normal size? Or is it a non issue in horses????

And can anyone recommend a really good book about all this foaling stuff for someone who is a novice with horses, but does have some medical background, so terminology is generally not a big problem?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1800
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uterine contraction and involution is tremendous for the few days after foaling. Remember that the mare can get pregnant on a foal heat as little as 7-10 days after foaling. Imagine being human and doing that! :-)

A retained placenta however (or a portion thereof) is a bad thing in an equine, and will lead to severe systemic illness and death in as little as 7-10 days (or sooner) in some untreated cases. In many cases of retained placenta that are untreated, one will see laminitis as a sequela if not death. The placenta really should be out of the mare within 2 hours and by 4 at the most, beyond that one enters the realms of "trouble".

You probably shouldn't be trying to extrapolate human to equine - it doesn't work! :-) There are some good books on the subject listed on our books page that should help.
 

Cheryl Johnson
Weanling
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 01:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank-you Jos. Yes, I realize humans are not hroses-just wondered if anyone ever had a horse hemorrhage as a result of retained placenta? I do appreciate your responding.

Since I am such a novice with horses, I'll be having the vet out for either the event or shortly thereafter, to try and prevent problems from developing, as I may not be able to identify if all the placenta has passed or not. And of course there is obviously a lot more for me to know, as I'm reading all these posts. I'd sure hate to lose a horse as a result of something so simple as not giving the foal an enema!

By making that statement, I'm not in any way referring to any of the posts about lost foals and sick foals, anywhere on this site. I think I have less experience with foaling than anyone on the board. So that was not a judgement-just want to make that clear. I've learned a lot from reading the discussions.

Thank-you for the book list. I'll order today!!







Thank
 

Tim Popovitz
Weanling
Username: Dystocia

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheryl

Good question.

I've rarely, if ever, had a mare hemorrhage as the result of a retained placenta. It is usually the other way around. The same uterine trauma that caused the hemorrhage of the uterine artery, also causes the placenta to be retained.

These are some of the toughest cases I've dealt with over the years. The hemorrhage is immediatly life threatening and many of the drugs used to treat it (banamine, sedazine, naloxone, aminocaproic acid) will delay uterine involution, but you've got to stop the bleeding and establish a clot, NOW!!!!
 

Ashley Krebs
Neonate
Username: Diamondkph

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, I have a question..My mare foaled Easter morning at 12:38am, but her water broke at 10pm Saturday and we couldn't get a vet out. We ended up taking her to our main equine vet (he's the main vet for HLSR, and was gone all evening) We were under the impression we were simply trying to save her, but much to our surprise her placenta didn't detach as it would in a normal mare and he was alive when my vet pulled him out.

He passed away 5 days later from trauma, she passed the rest of her placenta at that same time. She is still at the vet being flushed (2x-3x a day) and checked to make sure her uterus shrinks-which it hadn't been shrinking until day 3.

So I've asked my vet and he seems to think that if we keep a close eye on her, she will be able to foal normally next time and he's pretty sure she will be breedable. Should a retained placenta, if taken immediate care of, cause them to have breeding issues? Last year she was a very easy breeder-no shots, no regumate-dropped her off at the vet and picked her up 2 days later. What are the chances it will be more difficult? And, what are the chances of something like this happening again? Is it just a "sorry you're out of luck" thing, or is it something that will happen every time with that particular mare?

I hope that was clear..?
 

Cheryl Johnson
Weanling
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once again, thanks Tim. I knew of a woman who had a partially retained placenta and it was not noticed that her uterus had not involuted. She hemorraged 10 days after her delivery!! The blood clot and partial placenta plopped out-causing the hemorrhage. She was very lucky to have lived.

So I understand what you posted. Wow! One more thing to think about! But it's okay-I want to learn as much as I can. I will call the vet at the first sign of trouble-or maybe have them there, eventhough I'd love to be alone with my mare, Jewel, for the event.
 

Cheryl Johnson
Weanling
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just realized I did not make it clear in my first post, that I was referring to hemorrhage at the time the retained placenta finally comes out (if it does). I think Tim was able to read around the obtuse-but I apologize for not being clearer.
 

Cjskip
Yearling
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 78
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asley, I'm sorry you lost your foal. Glad the mare survived. I can't offer any prediction about your mare. I don;t have the experience. I just wanted to let you know I read your post and am sorry for your loss. Good luck the next time round. I hope your vet has been able to answer your questions.
 

Terry Waechter 5 march foals
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 221
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two of our mares had retained placentas this season...one retained part of the horn and one was just late in dropping hers...both went to the vet for lavaging and antibiotics etc.

Now both are in heat again and being bred...both had a clean culture...

it is a serious situation but can turn out okay



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