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Suggestions anyone??.. problem with mare and 2 week old foal

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Foaling and Immediate Post-foaling Issues » Suggestions anyone??.. problem with mare and 2 week old foal « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Lisa Palmer
Neonate
Username: Curley

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm hoping that all of you on foal watch tonight might have a little advice for a difficult situation I'm having with a mare and foal.

Mare foaled a healthy filly two weeks ago, placenta entire. We flushed the mare 4 days in because of some dispelled brownish fluid when she got upset that day. Everything about her and the filly was otherwise great until yesterday.

The mare was down and looking at her belly, then would go flat out again, obviously uncomfortable. No temperature. Foal was nursing from her while she was down. We got the mare up and gave her banamine. There was manure in her stall. Mare was still off and was down most the day and not eating despite every mash and combo we could think of. Foal was down with her nursing often and seemed fine otherwise. We would get the mare up periodically. No kicking at the belly or signs of obvious pain. Depressed attitude and now passing very little manure, but still some. Around 3:30 pm, she got up on her own and began picking at hay. Her bag was absoutely diminished with very little milk. Vet arrived shortly after and adminstered more banamine IV. Gut sounds were a bit gassier than normal and heart rate was elevated. He did a rectal, there was manure, but not as much as he would like to see and looser than normal.

I should note that the weather that day was atrocious ... temp dropped over 10 degrees into freezing temps and moved into snow squalls. Vet was treating a few colics that day possibly triggered by the weather changes.

Today, no fever, gut sounds and heart rate normal. Stool was looser than normal, than improved over the course of the day although volume is low. Mare is still off grain, picking at hay and still is not "right". We are now giving her enzymes and domperidone (sp??) to try to get her milk back. Foal is desperately nursing her and refuses to drink foal starter (which we have been trying to get down her since yesterday afternoon). We are syringing it into her, but she hates it and we are certainly not getting enough into her to supplement the measly amount of milk the mom is producing. We also have a Buckeye foal creep feed out, but she has only eaten a few mouthfuls.

The foal was down when the vet came, appeared to have crashed, flacid head and twitching. All vitals were normal though. Foal then jumped up and was spunky. (Can you tell I've about had 3 heart attacks by now??) Umbilical was a bit larger than normal so we started some AB's, but the foal has no temperature either. She is still fiesty (although hungry, so trying to nurse all the time, then laying down in exhaustion), passing clear urine and really fights the foal starter.

I'm exhausted and very worried. Anyone else have anything similar happen? Any suggestions for getting this foal to eat? She will not suck on the nipple (or a finger). Sorry for being this being so long!
 

Jennifer Graef
Nursing Foal
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 01:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would look at getting a nursemare if there happened to be one available in your area...gets the stress off mother and foal
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 175
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would ship them both to a clinic for observation. Draft mares make wonderful nurse mares...I would look into one.
 

Colleen Beck
Breeding Stock
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 106
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've heard of people using a goat as a "nursemare". I don't know how viable that is, but I know the old timers used to do it.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 174
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last year Ruby didn't let down much milk at first. We drench fed Berry twice a day to help her along. A squirt bottle, with the 1-2 inch nozzle on the end worked the best.

She didn't necessarily want it, but she drank it. We mixed the foal-lac powder 2x strong and squirted away. The get onto it.

It took a week for Ruby to let down milk after we treated her. She was not feeling well after foaling as well.

I hope your mare perks up.
 

Kris Moos
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kris

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

last year my mare had no milk about 2 weeks after foaling, the vet gave her 1 shot of oxyticin to let down the milk...it worked, she needed it again 2 weeks later, again only 1 shot.....and then was fine. Her lack of milk and depressed actions were thought after the second occurance to be depression from being seperated from the herd,(they normally all run together) once we put her out to pasture next to everyone else during the day and only put her in at night (just before bed and out immediately in the morning) she was fine.
 

Lori Coleman
Breeding Stock
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 265
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kris, how old was Jericho when you first put him in with the rest of the herd? Methinks Hollywood would enjoy some adult company too, but I'm afraid to let any other horse be with her and the baby...
 

Kris Moos
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kris

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I started by pasturing her next to them so they all could get used to baby through the fence and Tsaharah could warn all them. I then began adding one horse at a time with her and Jericho, I started with the ones I knew that would respect her warnings and would not bother the baby, the last one I put in was a brood mare I used to own...and that was because I had a strong feeling she would try to take the foal,(she was barren but was fully bagged and would nicker to Jericho like a mom) anyway over 2 weeks I added 4 horses...and then kept the other brrodmare seperate while they all became accustomed, and put them all in the main pasture so baby could learn that fence line...then when I thought all would be well I added that other mare...and just as I suspected she tried to take him...that was no fun...but a whole nother story!!!
anyway, I suppose Jericho was 3-4 weeks old when i started adding the others.
so if side by side pastures is an option start there....
 

Lori Coleman
Breeding Stock
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 267
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good plan. I also have a foal stealer mare...
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 219
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa,

How about a bucket? When one foal could not get the hang of nursing we milked the mare into a clean bucket and he sucked it right up. Perhaps the foal starter can be put in a bucket? Also when my guy was little he had to have some medication so I would liquify it and add a little Karo syrup and you would think it was drugs the way he slurped it down? Good luck.....sending you positive thoughts.
 

Vicky daMota
Neonate
Username: Corriedale2

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this is different from the others reply, but could the mare have gotten into anything, weeds, insecticide, ect....it would of taken a day to pass through the milk, then to the foal.. Have you increased her feed and hay supply at all? Is she stalled or in a paddock? I would try to help the mare get back on her feet, which will help the foal as well.
 

Lisa Palmer
Neonate
Username: Curley

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi everyone, thanks for all the help and suggestions! I apologize for not updating earlier ... the day has absolutely run away on me!

Update today: foal is spunky and alert. Just spits out any milk replacer I try to get into her. I did try sweetening it, and just left a pan out for her as it seems that she has to make the choice to injest it. She is still attempting to nurse all the time. She is drinking some water out of the mare's pail, so I'm hoping she'll give into a bucket soon.

The mare's bag is absolutely deflated. The domperidone (sp?) has not worked thus far, she has had only 2 doses. She refuses grain but is eating some hay. Temp is up now, 39.7 C (approx 103F ?). I gave her banamine and the vet is coming out after lunch. We will be putting her on Excenel when he brings it. Manure is a more normal consistancy, but again not a huge volume of it.
Update this Afternoon:

The vet was out. He couldn't draw blood today because the pickup was not going today because of the holiday. He will be back out tomorrow am to draw blood. Started the mare on excenel. Temp was down (but she had banamine in the the am). Udder looked more full which was encouraging. He checked her for dehydration and was confident that she was not. Filly is getting hungry enough to start sampling some formula/foal pellet soups... I think the pellets are disguising the flavour a bit. Foal was very active and peeing clear with good volume. Mare is still down alot and not eating grain, but consuming good amounts of hay.

All of our hay is 1st cut as we didn't get second cut off this year, so I am going to try to get some richer stuff from the neighbour tomorrow. I have tried all combinations of grains and sweetners to stimulate her appetite, but am not having luck that way. Tomorrow the feed stores will be open so that I can get a bag of sweet feed and see if that works.

Update this eveing:
Mare was back up eating hay when I got down there. So that was a relief. Thought the foal was hungry enough to try a bottle .. no go. Left a pail of fresh formula and gave the foal a shot of Buckeye foal-aid. Temp on the mare was 37.9, foal was 38.7. (sorry I don't know how to convert it to F).

I am in Ontario and close to the Ontario Vet College. Will re-asses the whole thing tomorrow after speaking with the vet and seeing how they make out tonight.

************

I don't think it's separation from her buddy ... the weather here has been bad so they have not been out for long starting the day she was sick (a winter storm moved in). Her buddy is right beside her and their stalls are 17' x 19'.

The mare was getting turn-out in a dry lot, and we are still in winter weather so we don't have weeds yet. Hay is the same as always and off the same fields we have used for a few years with no problems. Everyone in the barn is on the same hay and this is the only mare who has had problems.

I have oxcytocin here but am a little leary giving any when I don't yet know what is wrong with her. The vet will be back in tomorrow morning. I am considering sending to the vet college if the condition doesn't improve by tomorrow or the vet doesn't have any real answers for me.

I have left a bucket up for the foal. The mare will get up on her own accord (exception being day one), just doesn't spend as much time up as I would like to see or consider normal.

Thank you all for sharing and your help.. I really really appreciate it. Please keep the suggestions coming and your fingers crossed for her. :-) I'm heading off for a couple hours of much needed sleep.
 

Kris Moos
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kris

Post Number: 1055
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh my goodness...keep us posted...I hope all goes well and the vet will be able to find a problem for no milk and for her being down alot...prayers to you and your mare and foal...
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 527
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa,
Don't give up on the domperidone. I KNOW how expensive it is, but when it works, it WORKS. I had to use it last year on my mare when she had reduced milk let down after impacting a few days after foaling.
It took about 3-4 days of use, but talk about a "whew" effect.
I couldn't get the foal to drink the replacer either...drove me nuts.
I'm glad your vet is coming out...do keep us updated when you can.
So sorry things are not going right for you, but we are all thinking about you....
 

Nancy McGee
Breeding Stock
Username: Ndv101

Post Number: 200
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa I know you must be worried sick and worn out to boot. I really don't have any suggestions for you but I am praying for you and your horsey family. i hope all works out to the good.
 

Vicky daMota
Neonate
Username: Corriedale2

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa,
Isnt it great...we all have so many ideas, at least you know we are trying to help too...its good to have a support group..isnt it..prayers...
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 180
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ruby didn't let down until two days after we finished the Domperidone (I think we gave for 3 days?).

Ruby was very cranky after giving birth, off her feed excetera, she had a low grade laminitis going on (diagnosed by the farrier, bless him). We went with Banamine for the first three days, then went to bute to keep her on her feet.

Give it a little time, baby is getting something--enough at least. We drench fed Berry for 2 weeks. She was a skinny ribby little twerp--who is now 1 year 6 days and 16HH!



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