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Missed twins after Ultrasound at 16, 25, 60 days

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Missed twins after Ultrasound at 16, 25, 60 days « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Jan H
Breeding Stock
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can twins be missed at 16 days and then again at 20 days and then again at a 60 day ultrasound? This repro vet has been doing this for over 37 years, he has never had a problem getting any of my mares in foal first time. he has caught twins plenty of times and pinched them off for me, I just had my mare abort twins at 345 days, one twin was mummified the other looked like it starved to death, this mare was a maiden and is a 17 hand mare so she did not look very much in foal during the whole pregnancy, then today she has a discharge bagged up overnight, then started pushing and putrid smelling water came out then the mummy foal and soon after the other foal which looked full term but very very thin and soft fine hair, one placenta fell apart the other was thickened and odd looking, she has been cleaned out with what I believe was an antibiotic flush of some sort. she is on antibiotics and something else not sure what it is I am just in shock, mad as well as upset and very sad I was very much looking forward to this foal. I just do not understand how this could have happened.
 

Molly M.
Neonate
Username: Molly

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No expertise to add here, but my mare lost twins last year. She carried them to about 324 days and though small, they both looked fully formed. At least one of them had been alive the night before because I could see it kicking. We bought her bred and they had NOT had her checked with ultrasound early on because for some reason did not think she was bred. It is heartbreaking and seems like such an ordeal for the mare to go through for nothing. Anyway, it sounds like you took all the precaution you could and it must have totally ambushed you. So sorry.

Just watch your mare and make sure she stays healthy. We gave our mare a year off and are planning to breed her this year. It gave us a chance to bond with her a little bit better and get her out on the trails last year.

Molly
 

Danielle Roosen-Runge
Weanling
Username: Rolling_hills_quarter_horses

Post Number: 40
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan -

I am very sorry that you lost your foals... I do know from when I went to Reproduction school at OSU that I discussed with one of the professors a similar situation. There is always room for error working with any vet. I don't know how it would have been missed 3 times however. Have you discussed why it would have happened with your vet? I hope your other mare has a healthy delivery!
 

Sandy D
Breeding Stock
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 183
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan,
How awful! This is my worst fear right now.
We bred our mare during one cycle the end of May. She didn't show any signs of heat for 30 more days. She started exhibiting subtle signs of heat, but when we tried to cover her, she had a total freak out being covered by the stud. We basically "force bred" her. I then had her ultrasounded at 16 days after the "forced" breeding and was told that she wasn't in foal at all and should be in full heat. We teased her right then with the stud..there was nothing and we kept teasing her for a week. It was late in the year, so we quit even teasing her and decided to wait til this year to get her in foal. Well, she is obviously pregnant and and would only be 250 days along from the last breeding, and her belly is gigantic. There is also definite strong foal movement. She is a TB, so we are definitely afraid of twins. She has had 2 previous foals and I don't remember her being this large at this stage of the game.
Does anyone know if twins could be detected this far along in a pregnancy? I know it is too late to do anything about it, but I would like to know for my own peace of mind.
 

Kim Winter
Breeding Stock
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 187
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 03:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan - I am really really sorry that this happened. Its awful for you. I just really hope you get what you want from the other mare and all goes smoothly.

Sorry Jan....
 

Lori aka " Raven"
Yearling
Username: Raven

Post Number: 80
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 05:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan- Could the dophemene(sp) or the fescue have caused the abortion?? I know it does not help with the fact the vet missed diagnosed Digger. But some mares have sucessful carried twins to full term and delivered them. When was the last time that you had seen foal movement? Digger was a maiden? Correct? It is something now that you are going to have to make sure does not happen again with her. I'm sure you will though.

My condolences...
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 340
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 06:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Jan, I am so sorry!!!
how terrible you must feel, i cant even imagine!!! i hope and pray your other delivery goes well and mare and foal are healthy!!!!!!!!!!!
kris
 

Deena
Breeding Stock
Username: Morganslil1

Post Number: 275
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 06:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(hugs)JAN im so sorry for your loss.
 

Jan H
Breeding Stock
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 178
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 07:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone, I think it finally got to me last night, I just cried and cried, I think it was just plain shock before. Now that I am a bit calmer, I just cannot believe this could happen how in the world can a twin be missed after 2 ultrasounds?(explanation is below on why 2 and not 3 US). As for the Infected fescue causing the abortion at full term umm I just do not know, the last time I felt movement was not often on Digger, but I did feel it about a month ago, and the vet feels like the fetus (filly) died about maybe 1 to 2 weeks ago due to placental insufficiency, the other twin (colt) he felt may have died at month 6 or 7. I decided not to have a necropsy/autopsy performed because it is pretty evident the reason they died. I do have to apologise I made a mistake, Digger was not bred by my vet (the one with 37 years experience) Jade was but not Digger.
Digger was sent to the breeding farm in Texas, she was supposedly Ultrasound at 16 and 21 days only, but I did have her palpated by my regular Vet at 9 months due to her size which seemed small to me, but she is a very big mare and carried wide but not low. I am wondering now if she was even ultrasounded by the farm at all. I feel sad for Digger, Disappointed at having lost this pregnancy, and to tell you the truth I am questioning if I should continue to breed anymore. I am heart broken. I need Jade to foal and pull me out of this well of dispair. Thanks everyone for your support and kind wishes.
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 277
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan- I feel so badly for you, what a loss. After reading your story, I'm just that much more concerned for some of our mares. ( still no additional babies on the ground ) I hope that when you get over the shock of this, that you contact the breeder in TX to make them aware of what has happened. It is hard to accept that this kind of thing occurs when you do everything in your power to ensure a safe and viable pregnancy. I hope that your other mare will foal soon without any difficulty and that will renew your desire to breed your horses. While it's never easy, over the years I've come to accept that now and then, despite doing everything we know to do, we're going to loose a horse or foal. It's never easy when it happens, but you just have to pick up and continue on. (((hugs))) Hang in there, EV
 

Amber Tedford
Yearling
Username: Amber

Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan, you did everything you could for your girl. Of course you should continue breeding, because we need more caring breeders like you. I am sooo sorry; i know how you much you were looking forward to these babies. (((hugs)))
 

melissa
Breeding Stock
Username: Mbgirl

Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan,
You will be in our prayers. I hope everything goes well with the other mare. It is hard to lose a pet. I understand I lost a filly that was only 2 yrs old last year. It gets better with time. Don't give up on breeding your horses, you do a great job. Everyone here on the board loves to hear from you. Everything happens for a reason, we don't always know why.God will be with you during this time.Keep us post.Take care,
Melissa
 

Jenn
Breeding Stock
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 137
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 05:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Jan, my heart goes out to you. I was away for a couple of days and expected to come home to the news that you had a foal. I am so sorry. I wish you the best for your next foal.
 

destiny
Neonate
Username: Djb

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

im very sorry to hear you lost your foals!!! having twins can be a bit risky. Better luck next breeding season!!!!
 

Lisa Weir
Breeding Stock
Username: Pals_pal

Post Number: 162
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan,
I feel for you. It's never easy when these things happen, for you or the mare. Here's hoping all goes well with the next one. My thoughts are with you.
Lisa
 

Pita
Nursing Foal
Username: Pita

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan, I am soo sorry for your loss. I understand. I just found out yesterday by palpating a mare that she was in foal. We bred her in may, and ultrasound her end of may and the second week of june, and nothing. The second time it looked like she was ready to ovulate. She was in strong heat. My stallion was at a show so that is the only reason I didn't breed her, and then she came into heat strong heat in July, and I just said forget it we will breed her in March.. Well.. This mare is very big 16.3 and long, and she has been getting chunky, but not PG fat... at all. She is just buff. I was grooming her belly and she cow kicked I looked underneath, and to my surprise I see a milk gland.. I look at her teats and sure enough she is starting to bag.. This is a maiden mare.. I had the vet out to palpate and he couldn't believe it two ultrasounds, and he missed it.. this is the first one he missed this way.. I have been working with him for 7 years.. Soo I guess that's why they call it the miracle of births.... We are calling this one HideNSeek.



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