MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Foal stillborn

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Foal stillborn « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Tracey Hoogeveen
Neonate
Username: Rrs

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my older broodmare lost her foal last week. She was exactly on her due date but the foal was stillborn.
She never had any milk, ever. no bag

she was "off" about 6 weeks ago for 3 days, little food or water and very tired, laying down most of the time.
Vet was called and bloodwork was done. everything came back normal except for low Thyroid.
Vet thought the foal was moving into postion so the mare was uncomfortable.
No issues since then except no bag development.

Foal was in normal foaling position but I had to pull it out from her, everything came with the foal, still attached to the umbilical cord.
the bag the foal was in was not normal white, it was red and very tough,,,,,,,,,,red bag delivery?

I switched hay about 4 weeks ago, grass timothy mix, no other seed heads present except the timothy heads.
I don't think it was fescue toxicity.

does anyone have any ideas.

She is an older broodmare with a huge uterus so the vet figured that maybe the placenta just detached from the wall because of the size of the uterus (guessing)
 

Allison
Yearling
Username: Jumbletwist

Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm really sorry for you, sounds like it was a red bag delivery. Hard to say why though, sounds like you kept her from toxicity. Maybe it is something age related like you and your vet suspect. Again, really sorry for you! :-(
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2758
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be unlikely that "the placenta... detached from the wall because of the size of the uterus". If that were the case there would be a lot more premature placental separations...

You describe the "bag the foal was in" as being red and tough - but are you discounting the membranes that immediately surround the foal? The placenta will be red and tough, but the amniotic membrane which surrounds the foal (and is contained within the red, tough allantochorion - the placental sac) should be white.

If you can discount endophyte issues, you might be consider having a uterine (endometrial) biopsy performed on the mare prior to rebreeding. If there is a high degree of cellular change in the endometrium (which would be a more likely cause for "red bagging") then you may want to debate whether to breed her nor not.

The lack of mammary development plus the premature placental separation does however suggest an endophyte issue. Note that although Fescue is the most common source, other grasses including Rye grass have also been identified as carriers. Additionally, it is generally recommended to remove mares from the source 60-90 days prior to foaling if possible, so perhaps there was an endophyte source present prior to the change in feed at 4 weeks?
 

Tracey Hoogeveen
Neonate
Username: Rrs

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 05:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all hay was fine ( as far as I know)
I spoke with the old owner and the mare never had any issues.
not sure if this might have come into play but when she was bred she had been treated for a uterus infection.....it was not clear at the point when she was bred, the old owner gave her a "hot shot" as this is what her vet told her to do. The mare did catch and hold till due date.

Would it matter if there was an infection pregnant at that point? how would she carry so long?

I have heard tell of a couple of more foals this season that have been stillborn and one other mare lacking in milk, not in my area but all over.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2762
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although uterine infection present at the time of breeding is unlikely to permit establishment/continuation of pregnancy, it is not impossible, and could cause placental issues later in pregnancy. It would however be likely to present as placentitis and abnormalities (discolouration, degeneration) of the placenta should be identifiable at foaling.

Don't fall into the trap of "this year seems to be a strange year for foaling"... with rare exceptions (e.g. MRLS) it is something that is heard every year from people that have had an unusual (for them) experience...
 

Tracey Hoogeveen
Neonate
Username: Rrs

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

funny, after I wrote that

"I have heard tell of a couple of more foals this season that have been stillborn and one other mare lacking in milk, not in my area but all over"

I knew it sounded like an excuse,,,,,,,,,,,I guess when you don't have any answers it is easier to blame it on everything else.

Now I have a mare due on the 11th April and she is not bagging either,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe too soon but I think some kind of development should be visible.

going batty with these girls!
 

Cindy Holland
Nursing Foal
Username: Iagrl

Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is fescue toxicity common in Iowa? Until reading posts from this bulletin board and doing some research, I have not heard much about fescue toxicity.

My mare is a maiden mare and she is approximately 351 days gestation. She did have a large bag, but now her bag has gone down in size. She is not secreting anything from her teats. She gets a grass/alfalfa mixture now, but was on grass hay about a month ago. My research and readings are making me paranoid! Any thoughts??? I know fescue toxicity can prevent lactation, but will the mare still bag up? Thanks!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2764
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All States have Fescue. Note that it's not the Fescue itself that is the issue, but alkaloids produced by an endophyte fungus that is sometimes found on the Fescue (and rarely some other grasses).

Lack of mammary development is one of the symptoms, not lack of milk (although the two go hand-in-hand).

Note that at 351 days your mare is still right in the middle of the normal gestation period for the equine.
 

Cindy Holland
Nursing Foal
Username: Iagrl

Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos!

I'm trying not to get paranoid. Sometimes the more knowledge I get, the more complicated things become. From my research I understand it is the fungus that is the enemy in the Fescue. It also sounds like they have developed Fescue that is resistant to the fungus.

As you stated, lack of mammary development, 30 to 60 days longer gestation period, foal mortality, and dystocia(sp) are a few other complications of Fescue toxicity. (I know there are even more than the ones I listed.)

I have also read that the normal gestation is 320 to 370 days. And from what I understand, mares can go over those days too. So I will try to contain my paranoia and wait out the days.

Thanks again for your response!

Cindy
 

Cjskip
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy, I'm really sorry for your loss. How awful. Hopefully, the next one will be a live, and healthy foal.

My horses bags are small, although a pre-milk is present. But it has not gotten its sticky feel yet. On the other hand, the signs that labor will be soon, are present. Makes me concerned.

But Cindy, I do sincerely hope this next foal with be perfect and your girl's bag will balloon up the day before she foals! Keep us posted!



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US