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Aborted? ultrasound at 62 days = no fetus

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Aborted? ultrasound at 62 days = no fetus « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am probably just in denial, but I'm still searching for answers and google does not seem to have them :-)

My mare was AI'd the morning of July 1, she ovulated that evening, and was AI'd again on the morning of July 2. First ultrasound 17 days later showed an embryo.

Another ultrasound this past Friday, which would be ~ 62 days post ovulation, showed no evidence of a fetus.

Now, keep in mind that I am getting all my info from my husband who does not have much understanding of technical terminology. He said that the vet could not locate a fetus, but could locate the previous attachment site.

I realize that I'm grasping at straws, but is there even a slight chance that the fetus was in a position where it could not be identified and the vet was looking at something else?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2612
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While 60 days would be early for it to happen, the fetus does descend over the pelvic brim and out of reach of the ultrasonographer in most mares starting between 60-90 days, and then coming back into reach when growth has increased by about 150 days.

Your best bet at this stage to confirm or deny pregnancy is to wait until about 120 days and perform an estrogen assay on either blood or urine from the mare. There is a stall-side assay kit called "WeeFoal" about which you can read more on this board if you do a search for it.
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos...don't you just love denial? lol.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 847
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz, we did an ultrasound a month or so ago on one of my mares at 65 days, just to be sure she was still in foal. It was hard to reach, and we weren't able to make anything out except that there was a very obvious heartbeat... so still in foal. Vet was just about to declare her not in foal when he found the heartbeat.

I agree with Jos, do a blood test at 120 days. That will give you a for sure answer :-)
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Samantha! I am trying to stay cautiously optimistic but realistic. I definitely will pursue the blood test at 120 days, since I'll need to do the pneumabort vaccinations, etc. if pregnant.
 

Cjskip
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz, I had the a similar experience as Samantha, so maybe your girl is still pregnant. If you didn't see any discharge, then that's a good sign.

You could try and figure out if she comes in heat or not in the meantime.

Good luck and let us know when you find out, okay?
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Cjskip...I spoke with my vet about doing the blood test and he said "Why? Your mare isn't pregnant". haha. I'm looking into getting the weefoal.
 

Ann
Breeding Stock
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 120
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Liz...maybe it is time for a new vet? I am all about not spending money on tests and procedures that are unnecessary however, a blood test is relatively inexpensive and, if it gives you peace of mind and can confirm a vet's diagnosis why not? (This points up to why many of us have two vets at our disposal....LOL! I probably would have said, in response to your vet..."I am happy to pay another vet for the blood test...and the foals after care if you want to continue to refuse to get with our program here." I once told a former vet...."He who controls the checkbook controls what happens to this horse and guess what? That person is not you."

Good luck!
 

Regena B-It's a BOY
Weanling
Username: Callawayssuzy

Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz- I posted a question similar to yours in the Problems Mares section just after you posted this topic. Just thought I would offer you some hope... My mare checked not in foal at ~85 days, so I was obviously concerned. That vet was unaware that the foal could "disappear" from view/palpation during this period of the pregnancy and diagnosed my mare as open. I thought otherwise, so I had an equine reproduction specialist come out at day 135 to palpate my mare. Sure enough, she IS still in foal... Sometimes us owners "know" something, but we just need modern medicine to confirm it! Best of luck to you and your mare,

Regena
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ann and Regena B! I spoke to my husband (presently long-distance due to my remote employment) and he said the vet didn't refuse to do it, but just laughed and said he didn't see a reason to. I am going to tell my husband to to ahead and schedule the blood test. If she is still in foal, we need to be giving pneumabort vaccinations and planning for increased nutritional support.

Regena--congrats on the pregnancy!
 

Carol
Yearling
Username: Rodawn

Post Number: 94
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yes, I also also had a mare check out as not pregnant after four ultrasounds. Since my repro vet is very experienced, I went with that and put her out in the field for the winter. In February, which would be 7 months into a pregnancy, I pulled off her winter blanket and found a bulge in her belly...one that moved and kicked when I pressed on it. Holy dynamo - she quickly got vaccinated right then and there! June 1st, out popped a filly. This particular mare has never once had a pregnancy shown on ultrasound. She makes our poor vet scratch her head . . .
 

Cjskip
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol, that is a funny story!
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 06:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol, yes that is funny. Thanks for sharing your experience, Carol!
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1884
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Liz, did yall have another test done yet?
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holly, I haven't yet. I am leaning toward trying the weefoal. I've been away from home for two months (with one more to go) and trying to convince my husband to sit and wait for the pee. If he says yes, then it's a go. :-)
 

Ann
Breeding Stock
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 137
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz, Have hubby let the mare out for a couple of hours, put new shavings in the stall and let her in. She should "pee in a bucket" for him quickly. Good luck!!!!
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1885
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand Liz, my hubby would never even consider it!LOL!
I have tried several ways to collect, from taping a paper cup and a pad to direct catching. Direct catch was the easiest. Although now I am sure my neighbors think I have lost it! What we do for our beloved equines!
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holly, thanks for the laugh. I don't have any close neighbors, but there is the occasional slow moving car with curious occupants that come by at the most inopportune moments.
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm finally home after 4.5 months away. She looks healthy, but not pregnant (she would now be at 235 days if pregnant).

However, she is a maiden mare.

Vet laughs when I suggest a confirmatory blood test. I kind of see where he's coming from...all modes of testing have the possibility of false positives/negatives. Now that I'm home, I can at least try a weefoal though.

Here's her udder from yesterday. The udder is non-existent as expected, but what do you think about the teats?

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/chickadee21_photo/udder.jpg[/IMG]

Hoping that photobucket doesn't delete the pic like tinypic did.
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1969
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz, can we see side pics of her?
 

Liz
Neonate
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holly,

Here is a picture from today. From her stance, you can probably tell what she just got through doing (lol), but it was the best picture for our purposes:

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/chickadee21_photo/mouse022210006.jpg[/IMG]


For comparison, here's a picture from about a year ago:

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/chickadee21_photo/mouse.jpg[/IMG]

(Message edited by anytimenow on February 22, 2010)
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1970
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see what you mean. But alas maidens are tricky. It surely wouldnt hurt to try a wee foal.
:-)
 

Liz
Nursing Foal
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for having a look Holly.

My husband is such a non-horse person...I was out looking at my mare's teats yesterday when I first noticed the little white dots. I told my husband to come and have a look at her teats and tell me what he sees. I wait and wait, finally turn around to see where he is (he surely can't be walking that slowly lol) and he's looking at her teeth. After I laughed and asked him why he was looking at her teeth, he said "well, you told me to, but I have no idea what this has to do with being pregnant". lol.
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1971
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hahahha, thats great!
 

Stephanie Wind
Neonate
Username: Stephswind

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Liz, I have had 2 maiden mares that *I* would swear weren't pregnant, and even the vet thought they looked open - but foaled about 30 days later! Going by the photos, I would say it is quite possible that the mare is still carrying a foal. Time willc ertainly tell! :-)
 

Liz
Nursing Foal
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for sharing you experiences, Stephanie. Hoping my experience is the same :-).

I spoke to my farrier the other day and he told me his experience one year in which he bred 3 mares, all of which were US in foal. A few weeks later, a farmer sprayed the adjacent field and he later found out that all 3 aborted. He thinks it was runoff from whatever was sprayed.

I then started thinking and remembered that in between the 2 US when my mare was pregnant, then "not pregnant", my neighbor sprayed his cotton fields with something (pesticide or ?).

Oh well, like you said, time will tell....
 

Liz
Weanling
Username: Anytimenow

Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally forgot about this thread until today and thought I would follow up with the end of the story (I am always disappointed when I read a thread and never know how things turned out lol).

She wasn't pregnant. Her appearance never really changed, although at certain times she looked as though she had a bit of bagging up, with prominent veins around the bag, and some mucus at the vulva. After documenting the dates of these observations, it became clear that it was most likely estrus-related.

As it was late in the season by this time, the stallion owner offered to let me skip the year and use the rebreed this year instead (yay!)



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