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Twins detected at 27 days, vet thinks she is absorbing, small embryo

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Twins detected at 27 days, vet thinks she is absorbing, small embryo « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 09:23 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Mare was pregnant with twins, one has been pinched on the 27th day after breeding. Vet says that they were smaller than they should be and he thinks they that the mare is absorbing them. Since he pinched the smaller one, we are hoping that the other will pick up, he wants us to bring her in in 30 days for another ultrasound. I have always wanted to raise a foal and I have been so excited. But today was sadness, having to pinch one and then not knowing what is going to happen. What does absorbing mean in that sense? Why does this happen? I am trying not to get to excited now, since we don't know what is going to happen. I would love any kind of information. This will be my first foal to raise!
Thanks!}}
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 384
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Post pinching your vet did give yor mare banamine didn't he? That is a must. You should also have your mare on Regumate post pinching.
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, he didn't give her anything after the ultasound. He just said bring her back in 30 days to see if it has grown or if she absorbed it. What do I do now? I have never done this before. I really want to save this foal. Thank you for your response.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1525
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The use of flunixin meglumine (Banamine/Finadyne) in connection with twin pinching is actually of questionable benefit. The duration of prostaglandin release suppression (which is the intent of giving the drug) is minimal if there is sufficient irritation to the endometrium to cause that release (i.e. the release will probably persist after the drug suppression has ended). Additionally, if a remaining pregnancy is lost after pinching, it occurs in a time-frame that is not going to be impacted by a single dose of the drug.

Do we use it? Sure... but in truth the biggest benefit is probably to our mental health!!! :-)

Regumate use in this instance is probably in the same category, although it might be beneficial if the process maternal recognition is still going on (days 13-16), which is a common time for twin pinching. After that one once again enters the questionable value field.

Pinching a twin 27 days after ovulation is going to have a high double loss rate. The time to pinch with the best success is before fixation (~day 16) and the level of success drops incrementally after that point relative to the duration.

On a technical point - mares do not "absorb" ("resorb"/"reabsorb" or any of the variations). Fluid associated with the conceptus may be absorbed into the system, but solid matter will be passed out through the cervix when the mare returns to estrus ("heat").
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, that took a little air out of my bubble. Even tho it would have been the 27th day after breeding, the vet said that it should be larger than it is and has a foal date on 7/24/2007. When by the last breeding date it should be around the first of July. She had 1 in the right horn and 1 in the left. He pinched the small one. The other one was like over double its size. If she absorbs this one will she come in heat before the 30 days for the vet appt? So, when you say "Pinching a twin 27 days after ovulation is going to have a high double loss rate" does that mean it probably won't be there in 30 days? This is so nerve racking and emotional.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 385
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We always try to pinch by the 18th or 19th day, there is a greater success rate in this time period. My vet laughs at me I am always trying to do my first ultrasound by 14 days and she jokes that they have yet to invent future scan! So keeping up on your dates and scanning early has some benefits.
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did want to ultrasound earlier, but my vet said he likes to do that after the 25th day. Now I feel terrible. I just hope the other one sticks. I will know to go ahead and do it when I want to next time. Thank you all who have responded.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1526
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take a look at the article on this web site about twinning - it might answer some of your questions (follow that link).
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, I read the article and it did explain alot more. I am just going to pray and try to keep faith, that the it will still be there in 30 days. Didn't sleep and I am totally stressed. This can be heartbreaking. My heart goes out to all of you that have went thru this. Thank you all who have responded to my cries for HELP!
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 630
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coetta,

We are pulling for you and hoping along with you that the one fetus survived and is thriving. What day will they perform another ulta sound? Keep us posted. I know how long and anxious a wait it is for something you want so badly.
 

Coetta Buckallew
Neonate
Username: Cody

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jan, we do the next ultrasound on the 20th of Sept. This has been so stressful and sad. The pinching of one, took away the excitement of her being pregnant. And now the not knowing if the other will survive has been awful. I am sure most of you out there already know about this stuff and have been thru it before. My hats off to you all! If she doesn't carry this one, I don't know if we will breed her again or not. I know we won't this year. Thank you again for your support!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 141
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coetta, it sounds like you are doing the best you know how. It's so hard when you count on your vet to do what is needed, just to find out later, that something more should have been done. I've been there, done that. It's really tough! There is so much to know about horse breeding. I'm learning all the time. This website is a Godsent for me. There is a wealth of information and good people here.

The best of luck to you. You will definately be in my prayers. Please keep us posted on your next ultrasound.

(Message edited by Marilyn_l on August 30, 2007)
 

Coetta Buckallew
Nursing Foal
Username: Cody

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, we did the ultra sound today, and the vet said she absorbed the other baby. He said she still has fluid in there and if she doesn't come in heat this fall, he wants to check her again. The fluid looked like it got bigger, but he said he didn't see anything else. I was heart broken. But I have been trying to tell myself that it wasn't meant to be. Maybe next spring we will try again. Thank you all for your info.
Coetta
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 696
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 01:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coetta, I am so sorry this did not work out:-( Hopefully you can get your mare pregnant next spring. Have you thought about getting a repo specialist? I love my vet but he himself is not passionate about breeding and referred me to a woman vet that specializes in breeding. So with the support of both vets my horsey family grew by one this year. Wishing you the best of luck this year.
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 116
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coetta, I'm sorry to hear about your loss of pregnancy. Don't give up, that little foal will be so worth it. Hang in there!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Breeding Stock
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 199
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coetta, that is so sad. There are such highs and lows to breeding and getting that little foal. I'm in that same position right now and I know exactly how you feel. I'm sure you'll have much better luck with your next breeding.

Good luck to you.
Marilyn
 

Coetta Buckallew
Nursing Foal
Username: Cody

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you all so much for responding. I do have some questions maybe you all can help me with.
I have had horses off and on since I was 12, but have never bred a horse, until now. I have always wanted to raise one and I can now. But since Breezie was absorbing both babies when they pinched one and she did absorb the other within 30 days after, should I try again in the spring? Once they absorb do they absorb again? She is 18 yrs old. But my vet said he would help me get her ready for the spring. Not really sure what that means. Could the stud cause the absorbing? The mares that have been bred to him, have only had one live foal. Should I put her on senior feed? And if so, what kind is the best?
Any info on this would be very much appreciated.
Thank you all again!!!
Coetta
 

Cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 428
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow lots of questions. Ideally a younger mare would be much easier for a novice. Older mares are a challenge even for those of us who call ourselves pros at it. Her absorbing is just a reaction to the pinching of the twin, that frequently happens that is why we give banamine and regumate to all mares post pinching. Getting ready for spring would most likely just be getting a uterine culture to make sure she has no infections, an infected mare usually does not get pregnant. As for senior feed, how if her weight and condition? If she is a little light in weight or looks a little unhealthy then maybe senior would benefit her. If you are going to breed her next year remember a skinny mare gets in foal a lot quicker than a fat one. So keep her light. I don't feed my barren mares but once a day and at that time just one scoop. Studs cannot cause absorbing. Next year just remember your vet works for yo, he is paid by you so he comes to do things on your schedule, not his. With that said you need to ultrasound sooner than 25 days, more like 17 days, that way if luck should have it that you get another twin situation it is easier on the mare to pinch at that point in time than at 25 days and also more likely she will retain that pregnancy.



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