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Vaginitis or abortion????

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Vaginitis or abortion???? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 25
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a mare that was bred 10 days ago and today after she urinated she had a long (36") cloudy/clear, mucusy discharge that came out of her vagina.

It just slipped out and that was that. We called the vet and he thinks it could be vaginitis or abortion. What is vaginities? Is it something that can be treated if the mare is pregnant? Can vaginities cause abortion in the mare later on in a pregnancy? (If it's possible she is pregnant)

What is the likelyhood that it's an abortion? She had a cytology, uterian culture and biopsy (biopsy came back healthy) and the culture came back positive for Strep zoo. She was treated and the next culture showed she was clean. However, the vet gave her Gentamyacin twice before the culture came back clean. So, in essence, he medicated needlessly. He said just in case she had something, that way we could breed her sooner if she is still dirty.

Anyway, what is the general consensus about what happened to this mare ?

She has an appointment next Friday for her 16 day US. She is caslicked. Should we open her up and reculture her if she comes back open?

Okay, now it's the next day. She has a string of mucus hanging down again. Only about 6 inches this time. She has a discharge that is getting on her tail and drying, causing the hair to stick together. Also, it's dripping a mucusy discharge from her vulva. In a nutshell she is very yucky at her backend.

So I doubt it was an abortion we saw yesterday. But she definately has some sort of infection. It's color is rather cloudy/clear.

We haven't had mares in the past, so we are having a crash course about infections and such that mares are susceptable to.

Please help me if you can, I would greatly appreciate any and all opinions .

Thanks, Marilyn

(Message edited by marilyn_l on July 14, 2007)
 

Teresa Byersdorf
Nursing Foal
Username: Bravehart

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horses do not abort at this early stage, they would re-absorb. But, she could have an infection...I'd have the vet look at her now, not next friday.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 296
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absorb...I hate that word! Horses do not absorb, they abort, the fetus come out, it does not go back in.....okay, enough school!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup... any pregnancy loss is coming out through the cervix. There's no such thing as "absorbing/absorbtion/absorption". Fluids associated with the (especially early) pregnancy may be absorbed, but the solid tissue is passed through the cervix - i.e. aborted. It's a pet peeve of mine too... :-)

Almost impossible to hypothesize about what's going on with your mare Marilyn - you need to have her examined. "Vaginitis" is inflammation of the vagina - anything "itis" is inflammation...
  • cervicitis (inflammation of the cervix),
  • endometritis (inflammation of the endometrium),
  • placentitis (inflammation of the placenta).
My guess would be that you're likely to find a uterus full of (mucus) fluid rather than vaginitis. If so that indicates that she has issues with clearance of fluids during estrus and/or post breeding. That type of mare will not get pregnant (or at least maintain a pregnancy) without treatment. You need to determine the cause of the fluid - is it a reaction to a pathogen, or the sperm? A culture and cytology would be indicated in the case of uterine fluid/mucus - with a close evaluation for presence of yeast, which can result in uterine mucal presence. This latter scenario would espcially be more likely if she has previously been treated with an antibiotic during breeding - particularly a uterine antibiotic treatment.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 26
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone for your imput. I called the vet and he has her on Sulfamethoxazole and Trimethoprim (double strength). He wants her to have 12 in the morning and 12 crushed tablets at night.

She is really having a lot of white discharge now. I hope he is medicated for the right thing since it was perscribed over the phone.

I want him to do a culture and cytology next Friday to see what is going on with her.

Thanks again for all your help.

Marilyn
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 298
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those are both very wide spectrum drugs and cure just about everything so I would say you are okay.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 27
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much Cathy, I was really worried about that. I'm going to sleep much better tonight.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm.... prescribing over the 'phone without evaluating may not be the best thing in this situation. If it is a yeast infection, giving antibiotics is going to make things really nasty...
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 28
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, exactly what I was thinking. However, 24 hours later, she shows no signs of infection at her back end. No discharge in the least... So maybe the medicine is working and she doesn't have a yeast??? Trying to think optimistically.

Jos, would you do a culture and a cytology both? Or just a culture? Would a culture show a yeast infection? What test is used to detect a yeast?

Thanks for your help, Lord knows, I need it...
Marilyn
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1441
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A cytology smear is likely to show yeast, as well as the presence or absence of inflammatory cells. Most uterine swab cultures are grown in conditions to evaluate bacterial presence, and will not be likely to identify yeast.

Read the article about the importance of a cytology smear on this site - it should explain more.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 29
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another question, Jos, if you don't mind.

Would it be a good idea to do another biopsy or would this be potentially harmful, since she has an infection right now? Would I be making a bad situation worse? She would be on her 6 1/2 day of her 8 days of her treatment. I want to do whatever test(s) are necessary to make sure I know exactly what infection(s) or yeast she may have. I want to run any and all tests to know without a shadow of doubt, where she stands with her health.

If she does have a yeast, I want to do everything I can to elimate all the yeast, in every nook and cranny, in all areas of her vagina, uterius or where else it can linger. This being the case, what would you do to make sure this is accomplished?

Thank you Jos, for your continued help! Marilyn

(Message edited by Marilyn_l on July 16, 2007)
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 300
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Usually you treat yest infectons with a vaginal treatment and flush. There are various drugs to use, I have even used Program flea treatment for dogs! Yeast is a bad word around my farm!
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You really use Program flea treatment for dogs? Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

Does the yeast infection ever come back after you medicated?

This really makes me nervous. This sounds like a really really bad thing.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 302
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep Program for dogs, I forget the exact dosage but we disolved a few pills in saline and treated the mare with that then flushed the next day. I hate yeast, and no if you treat for it, it is no guarantee it will go away, some mares are always going to have it.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, is there a particular test for yeast?
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 303
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 02:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a uterine culture.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 205
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some labs, you have to specify that they do test for yeast. The labs around me just do bacteria unless you ask specifically for yeast.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 34
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks all of you, for your help. I think I now have the knowledge to get the help my mare needs.

Has anyone here ever had a successful pregnany with a mare that has or had a yeast problem?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1442
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 09:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a thread about "Program" use to clear a yeast infection, including the research summary, elsewhere on the board (follow that link).

If you can get the yeast infection cleared, and keep it cleared, then a pregnancy is not out of the question. The trick is clearing the infection.

Don't stress yet though - you still haven't even checked for pregnancy!!!! :-)
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 09:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your right Jos, I'm jumping the gun here. Thanks.
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 36
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, If this Friday's appointment for her 16 day pregnancy check shows she's not pregnant, would it be a good idea to wait until the next time she goes into season before I do the lab work on her?
Reason I'm thinking this is because my mare is still on the antibiotics, as stated previously and she won't be finished until 2 days after the vet appointment. I was thinking that maybe if she were to develope yeast, it wouldn't show up at that time and I should wait until her next heat to see what developes from all the medicating.

Or, would she have already developed yeast at this time and waiting would make it that much harder to get rid of?

Knowing your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you Jos!

(Message edited by Marilyn_l on July 17, 2007)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1445
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are arguments to be made for performing uterine diagnostics during both diestrus and estrus. My personal preference is to perform them during estrus if possible - and that's all I'll say on the subject! :-)

The concern is that she may have a yeast infection now, not later. Mucal discharge may be associated with a yeast infection. If she is not pregnant, my choice would be to perform the diagnostics once she is in estrus (and the cervix is relaxed). The issue with the antibiotic treatment was that we had concerns that it might make an existing yeast infection worse if there were one present, not that it might create a yeast infection (although that is always a possibility as well).
 

Marilyn Lemke
Weanling
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 37
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, you've been very kind and I'm sure I'm speaking for all of us, when I say how much your knowledge is appreciated. You give us hope and the power of understanding our options.

Thank you so much! Marilyn



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