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5 foals lost

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » 5 foals lost « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Melissa Keathley
Neonate
Username: Melissak

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Help!
We are small APHA breeders in NE Texas.
Last year we had 4 foals, all healthy.
They were born the end of June to August.
Our magnificent stud Zorro stays with his herd. The mares were rebred on site immediately after their birth.
This year, everything going on schedule.
until we sent Zorro off for training at a big training center near Aubrey. 60 horses under one roof.
Before he went he got updated on all shots. Our mares got updated on all shots.
While Zorro was at the training place, he was again immunized against strangles twice , which they said they had a problem with in their area.
Zorro was sent home after two months at the reining place
Immediately, he developed tremendous yellow discharge. You could tell he felt like ****
Called our vet, he prescribed SMZ.
We have 11 horses, 10 sucumbed to the disease.
Yellow nasal discharge, some horses developing rupturing abcesses.
Strangles at the worst, but why did they get this when they were innoculated against it?
One of or mares is a daughter of Straight from Texas. He died last year, so her foal would be valuable. She was less than a month from delivering, and suddenly showed up trim and slim one day. We searched for a baby with no luck.
Three more mares were starting to look slim.
Asked our vet to check them, none of them were pregnant anymore.
only one of the 5 mares were pregnant, the only one that didn't succumb to the strangles.

The vet gave her shots.
We told him not to give her anything that could cause risk to the last remaining foal. Two days later, she aborted.
The baby was a girl who looked just like our fabulous stud.

Our vet is at a loss.
He says strangles doesn't cause abortions, then says they weren't really pregnant.
When he came yesterday to draw a blood test from the mare who aborted, I asked what shots he gave and he said West Nile.

After burying the baby plus 4 others that don't exist I am really depressed.

Any advice?
Melissa Keathley
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 177
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 06:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow...

First, I am very sorry for your loss. How devestating.

I don't think the strangles vaccine raises a very strong titre (antibody response), and it takes about 4 weeks to develop a full immune response to a vaccine. He would have had to have the strangles vaccine 4-6 weeks before he left your place to have any protection at the training barn.

Also I think Strangles in one of those sneaky ones, and can hide in the lymph glands for a while before causing full blown symptoms.

If he goes anywhere again, I would consider keeping him in quarantine away from the mares for at least two-4 weeks before returning him to the mare herd.

Now what is the vet up to? All in foal, then 4 not? That is suspicious. Were palpations or ultra sounds done to confirm in foal?
 

Melissa Keathley
Neonate
Username: Melissak

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting. The training barn insisted on administering two more doses of strangles vaccine when he arrived.
Ultrasounds. They all were on what we thought were appropriate vaccination schedule.
I know the jury is out on West Nile. When I told him not to give anything potentially dangerous, that meant West Nile. I was shocked when he said he gave it two days before she aborted that gorgeous foal.
 

Melissa Keathley
Neonate
Username: Melissak

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Training barn adminstered and charged for vet calls x 2 plus the vaccine.
 

Melissa Keathley
Neonate
Username: Melissak

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From our vet, 11 horses were given strangles vaccine. Two months later Zorro returned. 10 horses got the disease.
Ever hear of that kind of failure rate?
Vet said it must be a new strain of strangles.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GET A NEW VET. I would lose confidence in my vet with a track record like that and no burning desire to find out what the heck went on. Even if mistakes were made that is how we all learn but it doesn't sound like he wants to find out so as not to repeat the agony for the future. My deepest sympathies as you try to problem solve and move forward.

jan
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 178
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I give West Nile to my broodmares. Ruby was 6 months along when she got her first West Nile shots.

I think that they have looked into the West Nile/abortions/deformaties question and haven't found any links.
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 179
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is a very high failure rate. How is the vet transporting the vaccine to your place? Is he keeping it cold and in the dark?

The efficacy of vaccines is greatly reduced if left at room temperature and exposed to sunlight.

Something is going on. Again, I can't imagine the disappointment.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 192
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 07:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow I would be in a panic too, enough to get A. a new vet and B.I vaccinate everything for West Nile so I would not be scared I would be more scared not to vaccinate. I never used SMZ for strangles just plain old pen twice a day. And kept a pan full of nolvason solution to clean my feet when leaving the stalls.
 

Sandy Smith
Yearling
Username: Sandystone

Post Number: 56
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 07:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have always vaccinated my mares with WNV - they get a combo now with EWT and WNV. Crystal was vaccinated a month prior to foaling and she foaled our gorgeous little Stella. Snazzy was also vaccinated at the same time. She is still on schedule, 309 days today. I have never had a problem vaccinating for WNV at any time during a mare's pregnancy. I don't know too much about strangles never having to vaccinate for it or deal with it. I am very sorry for your loss.
 

Leia
Weanling
Username: Leia

Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare had West Nile also about a month prior to foaling, but my vet would not give the strangles vaccine to my prego mare at that time stating there is too much risk involved with this vaccine for a pregnant mare. All my other horses are vaccinated against it however (non pregos all) My best guess that in your case maybe your mares just had a system overload? Getting strangles vaccine, getting strangles itself and then asking the ones immune system to handle a west nile vaccine when its still recovering? (my understanding is that even if they have had strangles before, they will fight it off since they already have the antibodies to attack it, but they still have to have bring about an immune response) I am very sorry for your loss...it must be heartbreaking to lose all your foals at once and then not really know what happened! My thoughts are with you!
 

Dianne Edwards
Breeding Stock
Username: Mamaedwards

Post Number: 276
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just read a bulletin about a strangles vaccine recall, it said Equilis StrepE, Intervet recalled all batches of vaccine due to antigen level decreases over time and dropped below approved release requirements. (article published mar 07) I dont know if this applies to any of the vaccine you may have used but thought I would pass on info.
 

E Watkins
Yearling
Username: Ev_watkins

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa- I'm sorry to read about your trouble, I can relate and would have to agree that it was likely the vaccines that caused your difficulty. Having experienced both strangles last year right at foaling time and a year with NO foals after we'd used the WN vaccine, I can personally relate. For us, we do not vaccinate for WN any longer on our brood mares, since the initial influx of it to our region, we've not see a case. I do vaccinate on our horses that are going to be traveling though. For strangles we do not vaccinate either, in our experience, while it is a nasty bug to deal with, it has not ever been fatal. We did have one foal last year born to a mare that had been ill late in pregnancy that was a dummy foal. She was a maiden and the foal was born when we were not there so whether from the birth or illness I cannot be certain but he did have brain damage. For the record, our horses that have been with us at least a year and have had strangles in the past do not seem to ever get it again. I liken it to children with the chicken pox and prefer they get over it and build immunity, whether that is scientifically sound, I cannot say, but for us, it seems to work. Also, now that you've had the illness there, I would expect horses new to your place to come down with it, we'll usually see it show up in the weanlings the winter they turn 1 or in those same months on new arrivals to the barn who have never been exposed. After a horrific winter last year, we've been clean all winter..and are keeping our fingers crossed! Good luck, Ev
 

Melissa Keathley
Neonate
Username: Melissak

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 05:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello
Our vet just reported that our mare tested positiove for Rhino
So most likely, all the mares and Zorro had Strangles plus Rhino. No wonder we have no foals.
When I stsrted to ask really specific questions about who got what, when, he kind of fumbled around.
I am getting a new vet.
Should I assume no one has been vaccinated against anything?
 

Leia
Yearling
Username: Leia

Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow....Melissa at least you know what went wrong.... I would get a new vet too!!!
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 243
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,

Again so sorry for you devestating loss this year, but I am really glad you are pursuing the cause and are being pro-active. I hope you find a vet that you can have confidence in. I would guess he/she could do a titer and find out what immunity they have? Wishing you good luck on getting them in shape to breed again.
 

E Watkins
Yearling
Username: Ev_watkins

Post Number: 81
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa- Glad to hear at least that you do have some answers. Had you given your mares the pneumabort vaccines at 5,7 & 9 months? My husband did not use to do that but since we've been married I make certain that it gets done. I'd think I would hold that vet responsible in some measure finacially. When you pay for him to take care of those things and he does not, there should be some responsibility there on his part. Good luck, get those mares well and bred back, (and when I have no foals to look forward to, I tend to look forward to going to production sales, that's fun too !! and there's no WAITING and sleepless nights to get a baby!) Best of luck! Ev
 

Sharon Malmberg
Breeding Stock
Username: Ryu2832

Post Number: 182
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa,
I'm glad to heard you are getting to the bottom of it.

I would restart your vaccination program with the new vet.

Again so sorry for your loss, but now you have some answers. Praying for 5 preggo mares, and 5 brilliant foals for you next year!



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