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Suggestions, Help!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Suggestions, Help! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Angela
Neonate
Username: Leaguerluvr

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
I am in need of help and suggestions, thought I would try here and HOPE someone can help me.

We have a mare who has had 3 foals prior. Last foal in 2000. Was bred last year, she threw off, her hormone levels were at about 11.6. This year, confirmed in foal 90 days, regumate 3-4 months, she does not look pregnant, (but we haven't seen anything in pasture looking suspicous) I was going to have her checked, but at this point, it doesn't matter, she has not been under lights to rebreed and won't have a good cycle yet anyway. So if she isn't we'll have to wait anyway.
And that will give us time to have any tests done etc.

I am in desperate need of good suggestions if we are to have a successful foaling out of her. She is 17 and in superior physical condition and doesn't look or act her age AT all. (Most people see her and think 7-8 yrs old)
So we should possibly have a breeding soundness exam I was thinking, And what other things can be done to help her hold her pregnancy?
Progesterone? what tests should be done to see what might be going on? Or should we start with a good repro facility and see what they think. What would this run in costwise?

Sincerely looking for help/suggestions and will sincerely APPRECIATE any suggestions!
Thank you all VERY much,
At wits end =]
Angela
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 156
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Angela...dont think i can help too much but i would suggest you check first if she is pregnant!
I would also always advise a breeding soundness exam and I know many people (at least here in germany) give their mares progesterone tablets in their feed, i think once you have started you must continue for the duration of the pregnancy!

The best is to find out that she is ok and save any future heartache when it doesnt work or things go wrong, unfortunately this is quite expensive....at the moment i think my vet earns his wages just from me,he doesnt need to visit anyone else

Speak with a good repro vet, GOOD LUCK!!!
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 495
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angela,

Until you have her checked, everything will be speculation.
From your post, it is hard to tell if you mean she is DUE in 2007, or 3-4 months along.
In the event she is in foal now, she is MUCH too early on to visibly confirm pregancy. The fetus would only be approx. 4 inches long & 2+ ounces in weight :-).
Last year, my mare foaled a 44 inch tall colt, and it was past her 9th month before we could even tell she was pregnant.

Get the vet out, have her checked...this is the only way to get the answers you need.
Good luck to you!
 

Angela
Neonate
Username: Leaguerluvr

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Thank you both for the replies.
She was bred middle to end of may 06 for an 07 foal. She should be about 10 months now and I would think, showing by now. Our other mare bred same time is really showing and so is another mare bred about 1 month later.

It really doesn't matter if she isn't pregnant as she hasn't been under lights, so she wouldn't be having a viable cycle now anyway.

I was really looking for suggestions on how to keep a mare in foal or help her carry it to term other than what we had done.
confirmed in foal 90 days, regumate 10CC everyday for 3-4 months, vet said that she should be alright, we stopped regumate.
Someone at home also mentioned the progesterone as well and said it was a weekly shot versus the daily regumate. (she learned what was coming pretty quick =])
So other than having the breeding soundness exam and waiting for their results what would be some other things to try to keep her in foal?

Thank you everyone,
Sincerely,
Angela
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well first and foremost get a vet out to see what you are dealing with. Then if she is in foal she may just not be showing big so no need to give her a lot of drugs. When you took her off Regumate why and how did you do it. I say that for I keep Regumate mares on Regumate until the month beofre they are going to foal.
 

Angela
Neonate
Username: Leaguerluvr

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
We had never had to have a mare on regumate before so we are completely new in this area! We gave it to her for a little more than 3 months and the vet said that should be good when I asked if we needed to continue when we were about out..so we just stopped when we ran out, should we have cut back slowly?? ..maybe need a more knowledgable equine repro vet? We also hadn't seen anything in the pasture as far as her throwing off like we did the year before.
How far along can they just re-absorb versus throwing off?
Also would the progesterone weekly shots be better than regumate daily?
THANK you,
Angela
 

Jennifer Graef
Nursing Foal
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The progesterone shots do nothing and do not help to maintain pregnancy in any way.

They never reasorb they always abort.

It is best to stay on regumate until about 180 days along.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a mare needs Regumate I leave them on it until about month or so before foaling. I have had bad experiences with the 180 day thing. Also they need to be weaned off of it 1ml a day. Absorb is a stupid term mares never absorb, they abort.
 

Ruth
Yearling
Username: Rooty

Post Number: 66
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's not necessarily true Jennifer. It depends on why the mare is losing the pregnancy. The last time we bred my Morgan mare it was Regumate that maintained the pregnancy to the point where her own progesterone levels were high enough. But Regumate is certainly not a cureall, and doesn't help in every situation.
 

Jennifer Graef
Nursing Foal
Username: Kakadu

Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, I use Regumate too in some mares. Regumate given orally has been shown to help maintain pregnancy. Progesterone shots have been show to do nothing.

Also, even though I would use regumate if I was worried and the levels were low...you can't say that Regumate IS what maintained a pregnancy. You don't know that the pregnancy would not have survived without Regumate. Her NOT loosing a pregnancy does not prove anything for regumate. Mares have tested with VERY low levels and carried successfully many times....

And last, the point where the progesterone levels were high enough that you could take her off of regumate were exactly those times that it was NOT her own progesterone. The situation you are describing is where a mare's corpus lutem did not produce a high enough level for your vet to feel safe (not necessarily that it couldn't maintain a pregnancy). Then, at a certain point in the pregnancy the placenta takes over the production from the mare. It is no longer HER levels, but the placentas.

Anyway...the main point here is oral regumate vs IM progesterone.

(Message edited by kakadu on March 27, 2007)
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 158
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a mare who with Regumate alone, she will abort. With Regumate and P4 (daily) she maintains. It is a huge pain in the butt, except she is a very nice mare so worth the daily
Regumate and seeking the next site to administer the painful progesterone.
 

Ruth
Yearling
Username: Rooty

Post Number: 67
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jennifer - in the case of my Morgan mare my vet felt it was a lack of progesterone (from whatever source, lol) that was causing her cervix not to close and that was why he felt she kept losing the pregnancies. We used the Regumate on the third try and she held the pregnancy. I don't remember exactly how long she was on it (that foal is now 6 and I can barely remember what I had for supper last night...), I think it was one bottle. I don't recall it being as long as 180 days.
 

Jennifer D
Weanling
Username: Jennifer

Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a morgan mare who was put on Regumate to sustain pregnancy until 150 days. She kept aborting/resorbing (whatever you believe) before 30 days , prior to the Regumate use. She is now 9mos and looking good. I also heard the shots of progesterone do not work. Wonder why?
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 167
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P4/progesterone shots have always done the trick for me.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1239
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Daily P4 progesterone or BET Pharm's P4-LA (time release) formulation have both been demonstrated to maintain pregnancy. Depo-provera has been shown not to.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 173
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes we use the Bet Pharms P4.
 

Angela
Neonate
Username: Leaguerluvr

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Which is better to give KneuabortK (sp?)shot or Rhino at 5-7-9 mo? I have heard different opinions on both of them.
Thank you again,
Angela
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pneumabort-K or Prodigy are the only vaccines approved for use in the US that will provide protection in the pregnant mare against the abortion strain of EHV (EHV-1, sub 1). The regular vaccination (i.e. "spring shots") will not give good protection against the abortion strain, only the other strains.

Antibody development protection (even if exposed directly to the live virus - i.e. infected) is short-lived at only 60 days, so repeated vaccination is required. If the mare is in a high-risk situation (e.g. competing or in a boarding barn for example) then vaccination at 3 months is also recommended. If the mare has not shown indications of foaling by 11 months, revaccination at 11 months (and indeed 13 months if still no signs) is recommended.



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