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White discharge and low progestrone

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » White discharge and low progestrone « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

JENNY BADER
Neonate
Username: Katiearab

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone figured out what the white discharge is caused from?? Does it mean infection, abortion? I am thinking of rebreding my 26 year old Arab mare again but am worried about the same white discharge and abortion (4 months). Any answers, coments would be greatly appreciated.
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 06:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

26??? What are you thinking? Do not do this.
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 946
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

26 and still breeding? WOW! i got hell for breeding my 16 year old, and after a difficult pregnancy and delivery i know why. I would reconsider breeding a 26 year old mare unless you are prepared to lose the mare and /or foal, and maybe having to handfeed a foal. I have heard of many peoples late 20's mares not making it through deliver.
Unless of course this is a mare that has reproduced year after year with no complications then she would probably be breeding sound, but based on your question, she isnt breeding sound, so please reconsider! (my opinion)
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had a mare I pensioned last year at 21 and she produced three million dollar sale babies!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenny,
I have to agree with the others...26 yrs old is too old to have another foal...she'd be 27 when she has it.
If you love this mare, please reconsider.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
When I read your post I went to look at your profile...I've been a TB person forever and rubbed horses at Belmont Park...Foolish Pleasure helped my dream of having my own broodmares come true. I get the Bloodhorse magazine and still follow the horses, people & races...I am so curious about those million dollar babies you sold...breeding ect?
If I am not being to nosey...can you tell me about them?
Thanks.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
When I read your post I went to look at your profile...I've been a TB person forever and rubbed horses at Belmont Park...Foolish Pleasure helped my dream of having my own broodmares come true. I get the Bloodhorse magazine and still follow the horses, people & races...I am so curious about those million dollar babies you sold...bredding ect?
If I am not being to nosey...can you tell me about them?
Thanks.
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mare was sired by Icecapade and had one grade 1 stakes winner and a few other stakes horses. She had two Saint Ballado's sell and one Unbridled's Song. Thoroughbreds are fun but extremely expensive to do it correctly.
 

JENNY BADER
Neonate
Username: Katiearab

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have a answer about What the white discharge might be?? P.S. My vet and two different breeders that have been breding many years have suggested to take my mares viable egg and do invetro and then put it into my 14 year old sound TB mare that has had 4 babies 3 years apart in foaling, no problems. I wanted to have a babay from the 26 yr old Arab because of her lines. Very heavy CRABBET bred!!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
WOW...great sires all...I have a grand daughter of Halo, love the Saint Ballado's!!
Yep...TB are sort of a breed apart... talk about expensive...how about that 16 million dollar baby...the Green Monkey (could they have picked a worse name?) hasn't even run his first race yet...
tahnks for your reply!!
 

JENNY BADER
Neonate
Username: Katiearab

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a TB mare out of Macho Hombre out of raise a native out of Native Dancer. I think sje's pretty cool for a rescue. Great riding mare in eng and west riding alsoa great Mom!!
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny you should bring up the Green Monkey, I train my horses on the same track they prepared him for the sales on. From what I understand he was plagued with hoof issues and is enjoying a vacation right now. I guess he was named after a golf resort owned by one of the partners who bought him. I too loved Saint Ballado, I bred one of his best runners, Sister Act.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cathy,
Yeah, I had read that in the Bloodhorse magazine...and it's still a crappy name!! Hope we get to see him run sometime this summer...he may turn out like a lot of the multi million dollar horses...a dud!!
You bred Sister Act? Geeze...where do you work, Cathy? If I am being too nosey, just tell me...it's just kinda weird to run into someone in the same business I used to be in way back when...I'm dating myself, but I was there the day of the ill fated Match race between Foolish Pleasure & Ruffian!! In fact, I rubbed horses for Buddy Hirsch and we had a filly run second to Ruffian in the Coaching Club American Oaks...her name was Equal Change.
St. Ballado will be missed, what a shame about him.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy and Joanie, The mare I am so worried about right now had a foal by her side when I got her. He was by Ballado out of my mare Bonzarella who is by Formal Dinner out of Bondella. I had the mare and foal sent to my farm to breed to Trond but the owner decided to sell them to me. Then , after the mare was in foal, I called the breeder in Florida and discovered that he never wanted his partner to sell the pair. I offered to sell the colt back for what I had paid and will return the mare after she foals and is inspected by the Oldenburg NA. The 2000 mare is very sweet and pretty but has a broken knee. She gets around just fine but can only be a broodmare.

As for answering the question about the white discharge. I have been told that some white discharge can just be hormones [when the mare has settled] but in this case I would think this is a problem and without a culture and cytology, you should not consider breeding. I also second the idea that this mare deserves a retirement not another pregnancy!
 

Megan A Brown
Breeding Stock
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 201
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 24 and 25 year old that we rebred last year because the year we tried to retire them, they jumped paddocks to steal foals. If the mare's in good condition and happy, why not? Yes you will expect to see more funny complications with the foal, and there is a chance you may have to wean early, supplement her milk or any number of possibilities. The same thing can happen when you breed any horse. The odds are the whitish discharge is some kind of uterine infection. Could be bacterial, could be fungal. If you are going to try and breed her, you’ll need to get a culture and make sure she is clean, then probably castlicks her. If you go the embryo transfer route, you’ll still have to make sure she is free of infection before you start. You have a better chance of having a healthy foal going the ET route, but at 26 everything is a gamble.
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara, you had a Saint Ballado colt or a colt sired by a son of a Saint Ballado colt? Because Saint Ballado has been dead a while. Megan, I totally disagree with you if they are a senior we owe it to them, us being the smarter species, to retire them. A senior horse is much more prone to complications and death from foaling. So if you are okay with killing them being on your conscious, have at it. I just know I could not sleep at knowing my decision accounted for my mares death.
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 91
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OOps sorry Joanie, no you are not asking to many questions, I just forget to answer them! I own Carousel Farm hich is the farm who bred Sissy. Loved Ruffian. about as much as Barbaro!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 33
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenny...I think your question about the discharge has been answered quite well and you have several opinions about breeding a 26 yr old mare...the idea of doing the ET is a good one. If it were me, that is what I'd do and retire the old girl...sounds like she deserves it. Also, your rescued Macho Hombre mare sounds wonderful...you did a good thing with her!!

Barbara...that deal with your mare with the foal at her side sounds really screwy...the partners must not communicate very well...will you keep them both then?

Cathy....do you have a web site for Carousel Farm? I'm jealous...hahaha!!
Unless plans have changed, one of the networks has filmed a TV movie about Ruffian that will be aired sometime before the Kentucky Derby...should be interesting to see it and hope they are realistic with the technical pasrts of raceing & training TB's. I wonder if they'll do much with the Match Race....poor Foolish Pleasure will forever be linked to that race rather than being an undefeated 2yr old Champion & Kentucky Derby winner. One of the greatest races I ever saw was when Foolish beat the mighty Forego in the Suburban...it left me breathless.
Barbaro was a true Champion and his death will haunt me forever...sometimes there are certain great one's that pass on and you never stop feeling the pain of loosing them...
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
I tried finding Carousel farms via a google search, but came up with several...one in Aiken,SC...but your place is in Ocala?
I also looked up Sister Act...I am very sorry about her, Cathy...I didn't know she had passed away. Did you guys save her foal? My sympathies go with you, must have been very hard to loose her.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, the colt was by Dance the Ballado [son of Saint Ballado]. He is already back in Ocala [he was born Feb 14,2006]. Like his full brother, he will go into training for the track. The mare, by Formal Dinner, is still mine but I agreed to sell her back to the partner after my expected foal is weaned. These "partners" were not communicating well. The one who brought the mare and colt to me lives in NC, the other in Ocala. I was amazed by the whole thing but it will all be well worth it if this mare foals a healthy baby. If things go wrong, as I worry they will, the whole thing will be a nightmare to the end. She is still holding on; day 302 tomorrow!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara...hey, that colt was born on Valentine's Day...did they name him Saint Valentine?? What did they name him...I'd like to follow this colt and who is his full brother? Those guys still partners? Geeze.
Day 302...Barbara you are getting so close now...my fingers & toes are still crossed for you and your mare...what is her name?
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 92
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I am in Ocala I know I am in the FTBOA farm directory. I did not own Sissy when she passed Winstar had bought her at auction in foal to Deputy Minister for a lot of money so they owned her. Her son of Storm Cat was a stakes winner last year. Sissy's entire family was plagued with bad feet but we always controled it. Barbara, before you go off selling back your mare run her pedigree and make sure she did not up and have something special so you did not buy a bargain basement and sell a gold mine! You can do that either via the jockey club or on BRISNET.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
I'll look again. You wonder how mares of this caliber die because of foaling...that was the cause of death. They are watched 24/7 and all births attended...she must have ruptured and bled. How sad.
Maybe I can find her son of Storm Cat, just curious about him. I'll look up her produce record.

Barbara,
Yes...Cathy has a good suggestion there...you can also use the Del Mar Pedigree Query:
www.pedigreequery.com
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 93
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sissy died of laminitis, that is why I made the comment about her family's feet. I thought that was publicized. Her son by Storm Cat is named Ultimate Goal.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy,
I looked up her babies and found Ultimate Goal (think his winnings were around $73,000)...under the facts for Sissy it does say she passed on 8/24/05 from complications of foaling...which I suppose means it took that long after she delivered for the laminitus to get bad enough for Winstar to put her down.
**##@&%#@*# laminitus...we have got to find a cure for that, and we have got to quit breeding bad footed horses to bad footed horses...juts makes me so mad.
Have a good one...I'm heading out to feed my gals & geldings...I can see Toy Moon on my TV monitor messing with her feed tub....which is about the only darned normal thing going on here lately!!
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy and Joanie, The 'partnership" has ended. The colt was about 7 months old when they came for him and they were so surprised that he was so "people friendly". I felt as though I were betraying him when he walked right on their trailer and they tied his head up for the 7 hr ride to Ocala. They wrote to praise me for my work with him; they expected him to be somewhat wild at that age. When he left here he had not been registered with the Jockey club. In fact that is how I happened to get in touch with the man in Ocala. I wanted papers on the colt and his name was on the mare's papers. When I called I learned about the "partnership" and he asked for their return. The fellow tells me that his full brother has been in 7 races as a three year old and has won or placed in most. If I can learn of their registered names I will let you know. Meanwhile my mare will reach 303 tomorrow. She is still out 24/7 with a run-in shed and hay. I will start bringing her in this coming weekend when I try for the first milk sample.

Great to know that all the mares are still holding on!
 

JENNY BADER
Neonate
Username: Katiearab

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all of the replies! I am have my mare cultured to see if the white discharge was in fact infection or if it was just the hormones. She did try to steal my TB's filly when she was born also produced milk and tried to let her nurse.
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 94
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand the partnership is over, Barbara, but what I am saying is do not sell them the mare back for what you bought her for if she has indeed turned out to be a good producer. It is their fault they sold her and the only recourse for the one guy to take is against the guy who sold her to you. I think what happened is they had a mare they wanted to get rid of, they did , then one of her previous foals turned out to be a good horse, now they want her back, you have her so they made up some story to get you to give her back. Don't be silly or naive you may indeed be in a dream spot. You do not need the names of her foals for the pedigree just her name. That will give you her complete pedigree and produce record, if you need some help deciphering it let me know, it's what I do.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy the mare is Bonzarella by Formal Dinner out of Bondella. I have her papers but I do not know many of the TB names or just what they are famous for. I regognize Raja Baba and Hoist the Flag as well as Bold Ruler [3 times, way back]. I had suggested to the fellow that he name the colt "Dinner and Dance" since he was by Dance the Ballado. He said he was already calling the 3 yr old Bonzai [which was the nickname we gave the young colt while he was here with us in NC].
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 103
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 05:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well go to one of those sites I gave and run her pedigree. It will cost like $18 or $20 but well worth it if you are about to take a beating. Maybe you can even call the Jockey club I usually just go to their web site and run equineline but they may do it over the phone.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara,
I got Bonzarell's pedigree up on the 'pedigree query' web site, had to use Bondella as the main horse for the search...without going into details, your little mare has some outstanding bloodlines, all the way thru her pedigree....including Tom Rolfe & Ribot...in fact on my web site on the page for Black Sandra you can find several of the horses in your mare's pedigree on Black Sandra's...I have a lot of info there on those horses, even some photos...a place for you to start.
You can join the pedigree query for $10.00 mo and get to use all the features...it's a great research site, and the fee includes an extensive "All breed" data base.
Don't let her go, Barbara...keep that mare!!
Also found Bonzi (that's how they spelled it) on there via her produce stats.
Try this site and if you need help...holler!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 104
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

See I told you do not get screwed, they think they have you, do not play stupid!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara,
I forgot...day 303 tomorrow...that's great, geeze, you are almost there...you are going to make it and can't wait to see photos!!
Day 277 for Toy Moon...could the days go any slower?!!
Dido...Cathy!!
 

Barbara Ritz
Weanling
Username: Spring

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, Back in Feb and March we were communicating via the board regarding my mare Bonzerella who had a filly on March 8th. I had agreed to return the mare to a Dr Robert Clements in Ocala since he had bred her before. You advised against returning her saying she had some good blood lines. I kept her but didn't breed her this last year [which with the drought and extreme heat was fortuitous]. I am considering selling her to a TB breeder and wonder where I could best find her a good home. The mare has become a pet now and I would keep her before I would send her to a bad situation. I am 67 yrs old and have to face the fact that I won't be able to keep breeding for long. I wish I had started when I was young like you! If you have some ideas on where I should best market this mare I would appreciate your help. I may breed her again and sell her in foal to a warmblood but that would not appeal to the TB market. Anyway, Thanks for any help you can offer.
Barbara
www.hiddenspringfarm.net



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