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Late term bagging up, abdominal edema

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Abortion and Pregnancy Loss » Late term bagging up, abdominal edema « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Joanie Davison
Neonate
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been going thru a tough time with one of my TB mares. This mare aborted at 6 mos several years ago, but has had foals since. She is on progesterone for the first 4 months of her pregnancies. Last year she delivered, rather quickly and healthy filly.
Last month she began developing her udder, on one side, and had edema near the udder, which did not concern my vet. I was horrified and thought I was going to have an aborted fetus, but a month has gone by and she is still in foal.
Meantime, thru all this, we drew blood and her white count was normal and also her hormone levels were normal.
My vet said let's wait and see...then 2 wks ago the other side of her bag developed. The milk I extract is cloudy white, no colostrum thickness, no yellow or grey color, just cloudy.
My vet tested the milk and decided she has Mastitis.
We put her on 5 days Banamine and 10 days sulfa pills. Meanwhile the edema stretched out and is now about 14" long running across the bottom of her belly.
Vet checked her milk again and has now decided maybe she doesn't actually have Mastitis and that it's possible the edema has caused her to devlope the udder...she is a bit touchy about her udder, although seems not to be in much discomfort like a true mastitis. Her bag is hard, but no heat.
Her vulva is clean, no discharge at all and look normal. She is now 265 day pregnant.

I would like to have some feedback on all this...my vet is hesitant to palpate her or do any type of ultrasound and feels her pregnancy is not in jeopardy.
Can anyone shed some light on this? If anyone has had this experience or knows anything that might help, please post back. I need some 'second opinions'.
Thank you
 

Kay Baxter
Weanling
Username: Kaykay

Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have seen this in a lot of older mares or mares that have foaled a lot (the edema) I have always been told not to worry about it and it does go away after they foal. It usually starts right in front of the udder and goes the length of the belly. heres a small excerpt

As foaling approaches, many mares have a tendency to exercise very little, and a significant number of these mares will develop ventral edema. This is a large swelling that extends from the udder along the ventral abdomen, and sometimes forward to the front legs. Such a mare will benefit greatly from exercise even if she has to be forced to walk (longing, hot walker, etc.).


Thinking good thoughts for you!
 

Cindy Bright
Neonate
Username: Cindy_bright

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't know how much help this will be. I have a APHA mare who did the same thing just last year. She fully bagged up then about 2 days later it was hard as a rock then over about 7 days absorbed her bag back up. She foaled 2 weeks after the "fake" utter, she had a very small bag when she finally foaled. I know how worried you are about this, just think she can't stay in foal forever. Best of luck to you and your mare.
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I personally wouldn't worry much about the edema as it is normal in older and multiparous mares; however, if my mare was "bagging up" at 265 days, I would definately get another vet to look at her for a second opinion. She should not be bagging up and then going back down at this stage in her pregnancy. I do have a 19yr old Quarter mare that is 304 days today and she has a bag. She has been milking since 2 months BEFORE she was bred so that hasn't concerned me. If one of my other bred mares bagged up at less that 300 days I would be concerned.

GOOD LUCK and I hope everything goes well, keep us posted on how she is doing!!!!!!!!!!
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kay,Cindy & Conner,
Thank you for your replies.
If she was a few weeks from foaling I would not be concerned about the edema..my mares have all gotten some edema a couple of weeks before foaling as they make a bag, that is pretty normal....but, since this is all happeneing way too sonn, I am very concerned.
At 265 days she should not be showing any bag at all.
I wish I could get another opinion, but vets here are few & far between...I do trust my vet, he has never let me down, so I guess I'll trust him now also.
She does get some excerise...the mares head out to pasture everyday and do quite a bit of walking.
I'll know more on Monday when I talk to my vet again....but I really am very worried about all this.
I will post back to update and maybe someone else has had something like this to deal with at about 265 days pregnant. Toy Moon isn't 'due' until mid April!!

Thank you so much.
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare is at 294 days and is fully bagged and waxing. This has me very worried but I did look back on journals I wrote about other mares and found one that started bagging up March 26th and foaled May 21. That is giving me some hope but it is natural to worry. I am starting SMZ and Regumate [per my vet] just as a precaution.
Good luck!
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara,
Thanks for your reply...right now I am in a huge panic because my mare has wax on her teats this morning...of course, being Sunday I can't find a vet...called mine but no answer.
I am thinking now that we may have missed twins on her utlra sounds in the first trimester...
I have no Regumate, but will give her banamine and hope that helps...what is SMZ??

Thanks...best of luck to you, looks like my luck may be running out.
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, SMZ is a broad spectrum sulfa based antibiotic which has beeen found to cross the placenta and therefore has been used in cases of placentitis. It would be of no use in a case of twins, however.
As I mentioned before my other mare bagged up at 281 days but held on and delivered a healthy foal at 338 days. I had put her on SMZ for a week as a precaution. I know you are worried sick about it but the mare I am referring to bagged over 50 days before foaling. If your mare is bagged now and can go even 45 more days she will make it to 310 days and you could still have a viable foal if you are there to help. I will be thinking of you!
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, well, guess I should have known that...I did have her on the SMZ for 10 days and also banamine for 5 days...if she was closer to 300 days along, I wouldn't worry as much...but she's only 265 days..even 280 days like your mare would give me more hope...I just went out and took another look at her...she's out grazing without a care in the world...still waxed, but that is the only sign so far.
Thanks so much, Barbara...I'll keep you posted.
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, do you vaccinate for Rhino? If a mare is aborting because of Rhino, they usually bag up and abort between 7 and 9 months. I hope everything goes well, it's not fun to have lots of worrying! My 19yr old quarter mare started bleeding around 165 days post breeding and has been on Regumate and Uniprim daily since then. Last weekend she quit bleeding and is 305 days today. Worrying is definitely part of breeding because there is such a long wait. Keep us posted on how she is doing.
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conner,
Absolutley...mares are always vaccinated and kept up to date...I'm thinking we missed twins, maybe...but she is loaded with wax, so I am getting prepared for an abort...just hope it isn't twins that may cause a troubled birth. Have my vet on stand by just in case.
Going to be a long night, and I am affriad a very sad one.
Thanks, Conner.
 

Kay Baxter
Weanling
Username: Kaykay

Post Number: 38
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 06:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie im thinking good thoughts for your mare. I know how stressed you must be. Is there anyway she could have been bred earlier ?
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I am wondering how things are....I know that each day you go to check on your mare wondering what you will find. Please let us know; we are thinking of you.
Barbara
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie: Keep us posted. We are all keeping our fingers crossed. I too was wondering if she might have been bred earlier than you first thought.

Deb
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conner, Kay, Barbara & Debbie,

Thanks so much for your support.
Toy got thru last night, but I doubt she'll be the first mare ever to bag & wax at 270 days and still go to term. Just a matter of time, I guess.

No, she wasn't bred earlier...her breeding dates are May 27 & 28, using AI. Checked at 18 days in foal. There is a chance my vet could have missed a twin, so that is maybe what is going on...I won't know until she aborts.

Thanks again to you all...it's nice to have folks pulling for you, even when there in not much hope. I am just sick at heart.

I will keep you posted.

If you'd like to see Toy Moon, here is my web site addy: www.foolishdreamfarm.com
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I just looked at your lovely web site. We have something else in common: I was born in Brooklyn NY, too!
I have been out to see my mare and found the wax is gone on one teat but her bag is so big that it is swelling up between her back legs. Her vulva seems unchanged. We are at day 295. Am I just foolish to hope she can go on like this for another 20 days? Toy only needs 20 more days than my TB mare. I guess I just can't stop hoping. What does your vet say now?
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I looked at your website and Toy Moon and your babies are just beautiful!!! I hope the best for you and Toy Moon and am keeping you two in my thoughts.

We also think my mare had twins that were missed and one died around 3 or 4 months and it had the placenta inflamed. The mare bled from her cervix for 5 months (just quit bleeding a week ago). We could not find the other twin during later u/s but still think that is the case, we are now just waiting until she foals or aborts so we can examine the placenta. Last night the baby was moving around good so I have hopes that she is going to make it. She is 306 days today so if she can hold out until 325 days, then I feel everything will be ok. It has been a very long 5 months (and expensive)! She is bred to a nice son of SR Instant Choice on the top and a money earning daughter of Freckles Merada on the bottom so I am hoping for a nice cutting baby. Anyways, please keep us posted and I will be thinking about you and Toy Moon!!!
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my very early days of breeding I was given a QH mare in foal to an arab. They told me that she was due to foal in August. Around April the mare began spraying milk. I figured that they had the dates wrong and just got the foaling stall ready. After a few days she stopped spraying milk; she continued eating normally so we just forgot about it [I didn't know enough to panic and maybe I was better off then]. In August we arrived to find a very tiny baby standing with the mare. I was able to pick him up and carry him to the stall. We looked around the field and found a perfectly formed mumified filly in a sack! The little colt seemed sickly for a while but again,in my ignorance,we just treated his "runs" and went on. He is a lovely trail horse to this day. I know it isn't supposed to happen this way but it did and I hope you find the same and have a healthy baby in the proper time. 306 days sounds promising!
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conner & Barbara,

Barbara...a Brooklyn gal too...how small this World really is!! I was born in Bensonhurst, near the Verrazono-Narrows Bridge.
I visited your site...gorgeous place and lovely horses...both your stallions are outstanding....I really like Mister.

I keep thinking foolish thoughts about Toy Moon...and reading about your mare, Barbara gives me a glimmer of hope. Wish I could add those 20 days to her pregnancy...I think you have a good chance for your mare to go another 20 days... Toy Moon's bag is also big between her back legs...I also just came in from checking on her, one teat dropped it's wax, and I cleaned off some dried milk from that leg. Her vulva also looks normal, and everything about her is normal except her bag.
My vet just says if he missed twins he'll kill himself, and to watch her...
I am looking for a miracle here...for both of us Brooklyn kids.
The story about that QH mare is unreal...how did she manage to go to term with a dead foal inside her all that time...
maybe asking for a miracle isn't too far off in left field.


Conner...at 306 days, I am willing to bet your mare will get there and give you that cutting horse...very nice bloodlines. I has 2 gorgeous foals from a son of Doc Quixote last year.
Toy Moon is in foal to a winning son of First Down Dash, Rare News, and I just have been so excited about this cross and the coming foal...who may already be a sold baby...and now I may not get a baby...

Let's keep each other in our thoughts and think real hard postive things.
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey gals,
I just read an article that said foals born prematurly from mare suffering some type of infection, such as Placentitis, may be born healthy because of the infection...it causes the foals to develope faster in utero.
Also a friend of mine that was in the breeding business big time for many years said she did have mare foal at 280 days and the foal was healthy.
So, maybe there is hope...for all of us...all I need to do is talk Toy Moon into waiting at least another ten days...
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, there you go! Our waiting days are being cut down to a reasonable number even as we speak. I am still praying for all of our mares but am more hopeful. thanks.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Foals born to placentitis mares are not uncommonly delivered as early as 310-315 days and yet fully "mature". As you note, nature acceerates development in utero in recognition (we assume) of there being a problem. Do be aware that the foal has been exposed to a pathogen in-utero, and is therefore a high-risk candidate for neonatal septicaemia, so prophylactic antibiotic therapy at birth is often recommended.

Foalings earlier than 300 days may still represent a problem, and although there have been foalings earlier than that without neonatal compromise, it should be noted that these are rare, and in most cases there will be issues that require neonatal intensive care.
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara... yep, we do have some hope...but sure aren't outta the woods yet. My friend was telling me that mare she had that delivered a healthy foal at 280 days did it year after year...she said the mare always foaled 6-8 weeks early and always had a healthy baby...I pray we get that lucky.

Jos...I realize all that you stated in your post...beleive me I am well aware of the complications that may arise if Toy Moon does foal early and delivers a live baby...I'm being as positive as I can be while knowing full well there is no guarantee, if she delivers a live foal, it would be completley healthy...I am already taking the steps needed to insure it would get the care it needs in the event Toy delivers a live foal...as with Barbara & Conner...we hope for the best but realize it may not turn out that way.

Thanks for your information, Jos...and please add anything else you may find we should know.
I've been doing this for years and this is the first time I've gone thru this...it's a nightmare, especially because Toy Moon is my only pregnant mare for 2007 and she's in foal to an outstanding race bred QH stallion, I already have several people interested in the foal and above all else...I love my mares!!!

Thanks again.
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I was away from the farm all day today and came home to find my mare, full bag and all, standing munching hay. If she can make it to March 6th I will have reached 310 days. My vet will check her tomorrow but I doubt that she can do anything beyond the Progesterone and SMZ.

What steps are you taking to insure the neo natal care your foal may need? Are you taking the mare to a facility to foal? This was suggested to me but I fear that taking her anywhere would be more stressful. I have frozen colostrum on hand and may seek more from some other mare owners. I intend to have her in front of a camera but do not know what else to do. I will start the milk tests around 309 days and will watch nightly when indicated. Just wondered what other steps you are taking or what else Jos would suggest!
 

Joanie Davison
Nursing Foal
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Barbara,
Getting to 310 days sure would be a good thing, and I have my fingers & toes crossed for you. I wish Toy was as close as that...she's hanging in there.
What a nightmare of a situation...no telling how long I'll be watching her, but I hope it's for at least another month...she's got to get thru the rest of this month and all of March...heavy sigh!!

I don't think there is anything else you can do excpet keep telling your mare to wait!! I asked my vet about getting Toy back on antibiotics, but he feels it's not necessary now...but I'll be going to his office today for some foaling supplies, so will talk to him again...I at least would like to have her milk looked at again under microscope to see if there is any indication of infection.
I also wish I knew if the foal, or, Godforbid, foals are alive...I figure after a month of this, if there was a problem going on in there, she would have aborted by now. So frustrating.

As for neonatal care...even if I could take her to a facility, we don't have one out here in the wilds of Wyoming...and i agree that you should keep your mare home...unless she could deal with a change in scenery, she's better off in a familiar place...just hope your vet can be there pronto if needed. At least I know if I need him, my vet could be here within 30 mins.
I'm just going to have on hand all the usula stuff...colostrum, e-coli paste, liquid ivermectin de-wormer, naval iodine ect...and have my vet here pronto. If she foals early (and I suppose she will) and has a live baby, we'll check it via blood draw for infection ect.

That's about it, Barbara...you hang in there.
 

Barbara Ritz
Neonate
Username: Spring

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My vet checked the mare yesterday and encouraged me to believe that things could still go well for her [now at 298 days]. She has suggested that I buy some Seramune and mentioned taking mare and foal to a specialty facility if the foal needs oxygen [but the facility is 1 1/2 hours away]. That set me to worrying again, of course. The vet did not seem too concerned about the 6 inches of edema that starts at the mares front legs and seemed to feel that waxing was ok as long as it came and went and no milk was streaming down her legs...
Conner, How is your mare doing now? She is at 309 now? Joanie, Any change in you mare? Breeding just isn't for the feint of heart!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Barbara,
been especially busy the last few days...I sure hope things are going better for you...your vet sounds rather like mine...not very worried about our situations. My stress levels are not going away!!
Toy is now at 272 days (the days seem to drag by) and still bagged & waxing...she does stream or drip milk, then will wax up again. Her edema is still the same...running along the bottom of her belly, sort of one one side... her bag is hard, but not much heat.
I took another milk sample into him the other day (the color is now just like milk, rather than clear) and he thinks the mastitis is cleared up, but I am not so sure...he said he'd rather not give her any meds she doesn't need, but I think another 10 days of the sulfa pills would do more good.
Toy Moon is sweet & never, ever pins her ears at me...but now she is getting pretty darn grouchy when I touch her belly or bag (she did let me milk out that sample) and thinking about it, I have not seen her lay down for over a week...doesn't mean she isn't laying down, but I usually see her down at least a couple times a week...could she be too uncomfortable to lay down?

Barbara I hope you won't need a care facility for your foal when it is born...that's some scary stuff for your vet to tell you...we don't even have anything like that around here.

Look foward to your next post, Barbara...
and Conner...how is your situation coming along?

We're in the same boat, but that sure doesn't make us feel any better does it?

DR.O...maybe you have something to add?
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a mare who is due in April who bagged up she is on 12 bacterin twice a day, Isoxuprine (10) twice a day, Banamine 10ml's twice a day, Ventipulmin 5 ml's twice a day and 20 mls of Regumate in the morning.
 

Mood Swings
Neonate
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all. I have a mare that is now 289 days along. She has been getting antibiotics and a double dose of regu-mate for the last couple of months in an effort to save her pregnancy. She is incredibly still hanging on, although she has now started to develope an udder. I am praying for your foals Joanie, Barbara and Cathy. There is a mare at the other farm that also is not due until mid-April and has a full udder (occassionally dripping milk). She too is being treated for placentitis. I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed for all of the little foals!
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all, I have been reading the posts but have not had time to update on my mare. She is 311 days today and not much has changed. She is still not bleeding (thank god) so we took her off of the antibotics, so now she is only getting her regumate and red cell. The baby is moving normally and her udder and vulva are normal. She has been milking for a year now so I'm not too worried about any udder development. She is now 20yrs old so her udder hangs and is getting bigger but she does not drip and is not waxing (you have to milk her to express anything event though she ALWAYS has milk). I did test the calcium level since she has had milk for a year and it was really low so I decided that was a good sign that she is not ready to foal (I hope). I guess I have worried so much for the last 5 months that finally making it to 311days seems to me that I should be positive.

Barbara & Joanie, sounds like your mares are still hanging in there so I would be positive about that too. I'm really excited to see baby pics (healthy babies). Gotta go, I will check back in later and tell your girls to hang in for a few more weeks! Good luck to all mommas and babies!!!!
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, day 300 is coming to a close. My mare's edema is like a huge shelf running the length of her huge belly on both sides. I thought about checking her milk and she got very testy so I decided to hold off a few days. When it warms up some here I will try some warm compresses and see if she will let me milk her just a little.

Cathy, that is quite an array of meds your mare is on. How many days along is your mare and when did you decide she needed all those meds? I understand the Bactrim and Regumate but wonder about the others. I guess I just didn't know when to panic and my vet seems to feel all is ok. I just wonder what your vet saw in your mare to make him/her suggest what he did? My mare wouldn't reach 340 days until April 5th but I am figuring she could have a viable foal is she reached the 11th of March.

Joanie, If your mare just holds on for a while you are going to make it. I know it is agonizing. I will be thinking of you... I am having Kathy and Jos here next weekend to collect and freeze semen from some stallions and am looking forward to getting their opinions on my mare.

Conner, it would seem that your mare is "out of the woods". Now you just have to be sure to be there with her. Good luck!
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 05:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare has been on this regumine since mid January. She is due around the end of April. My mare was initially bagged up, and blood tests returned with low progesterone counts. I trust my vet a lot she is one of the top repro vets in Ocala.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, You are very lucky to have a top Repro vet in your area. There are none close to us. NC State is about 3 hours away and I am told there is a unit in Southern Pines. In any case it is a bad time to try to investigate resources around here [just when I am in such a worried state]. I guess I will know better next year.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, Barbara, Conner & Moodswings,
I have so many posts to answer, thought I'd do a group post, since we are pretty much all in the same boat!!
Cathy...you live in a great place for repro vets...I lived in Ocala for a few years and worked on a TB breeding farm there...I loved it. The farm was located next to Harbor View and down the road from Fred Hooper's place. That is when my dreams of having my own broodmares developed...we had 25 mares on the farm, 2 stallions and it was a wonderful time for me.
Anyway...since your mare has low prog. levels, the regumate is the way to go. By the way, there is a generic regumate that I use on Toy Moon for the first 4 mos. that is way cheaper...might ask your vet about it.
Toy Moon's hormone levels came back from CU Davis as normal...so I don't need to use any progesterone at this time.
Conner...it does sound like your mare is going to make it now...at her age and history, I would make sure to be there when she gives birth...it may start her bleeding again, not to scare you, although you are probably aware of that possibility. You may want to ask your vet for a shot of vitamin K to give her in case she does bleed, it'll help clot the blood.
Barbara, I am praying for your mare to hit March 11th...maybe once she delivers the edema will go away, meantime ask your vet about giving her Lasix...it may help that edema. Seems like too much edema to be normal.

Yesterday I found Toy Moon laying down, which I have not seen for about 10 days...I was beginning to wonder if she was too uncomfortable to lay down...but she had all this red globby stuff coming out of her vulva and I got scared again...never seen anything quite like that before. Called my vet and he said it's probably the tip of her cervix showing from the pressure of the foal. She even rolled a couple of times, which was a good thing...once she stood up, her vulva looked normal.
She still has slight edema, but not much. She is still dripping milk & waxing.
My vet came out this morning to see her, and mentioned she didn't look as 'wide' as the other day, and I was glad he said that, because I thought the same thing...like maybe her rolling yesterday repositioned the foal.
He said right now, we're best not to give her any meds she dosen't need...
I want to check the calcium level in her milk. I know you can buy these foal predicitor kits and test the calcuim levels in the milk, but I think there is a way to do that using things you have at home...anyone know how to do that?

WEll, until we all post another update, I'll continue to think postitve thoughts for all of us, and sure hope we all get to post baby photos when the time comes.

Thanks and you are a great bunch of folks...finers & toes crossed and postive thinking for us all.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conner,
You mentioned you tested your mare's milk for calcium...how did you do that?
Thanks a ton!
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, In case Conner has another method I will just tell you that I use water hardness test strips to check for a change in calcium. You use one cc of milk and 6cc of distilled water and use the strip according to the directions [for the number of seconds the strip is placed in the milk water mixture]. It is important that you have everything rinsed in distilled water ahead of time so you don't skew the result. You can get these strips at pool supply places or at your Culligan water store.
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I am testing for calcium levels the same way Barbara is. This is my first year doing this so I hope it all works out. I do a lot of research and have found that people use the water hardness test strips the same as the commercial predictor kits; however, I think it is going to be a little harder to read but I'm willing to give it a try. I tested her again tonight and she is still low so I'm calling that a good sign. Thanks for the info on the Vitamin K, I am aware of it because my husband (30 yrs old) has a mechanical valve in his heart and is on several medications and his blood is checked for thickness at least once a month.
When you were talking about your mare bleeding, it made me think of Granny. When she would lay down it would be very "globby" because it was pooling in the vagina then clotting. There would be a big mass with 3 to 4 runs off of it. When I would go out in the mornings to feed I could always find where she had laid in the night because the ground would be stained with blood (usually a circle a foot in diameter). That went on for 5 months straight, everyday! I will post a pic of her bleeding a few days before she stopped if I can remember how to post pics. I also wanted to comment that your mare could very well be carrying twins because they can bag up, wax, and even drip milk for several weeks before their due date. Hopefully if that is the case, everything will go ok. Let's just keep our fingers crossed for healthy babies (that goes for everyone).
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 83
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 06:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love Ocala. I will check into the generic regumate since I usually have 5 or 6 mares on it. The mare I spoke of did not do well on just regumate, I had to add P-4 to keep the kid inside!
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara, Conner, Cathy...
Thanks...I couldn't stand it and did a search and found out just what you guys posted...I'm going to see if I can get those supplies around here...being very rural Wyoming we don't have pool supply places or a Culligan man...but I'll make some calls today about finding the strips...if I draw a blank, I'll spend the money and order a kit from an equine supply site...and put a rush on the order!!
Conner...I figured you knew about the vitamin K (gee, your husband is awful young for a heart valve...hope all is ok with that!!) My mare isn't like your Granny, it's only when she lays down that I see that red globby looking stuff...my vet describes it as looking like red fat modules...he said not to worry, it's her cervix being pushed out somewhat when she lays down.
Cathy...the generic progesterone is made at a pharmacy that my vet uses...the cost saving is considerable. I would assume your vet can get you some thru a pharmacy she deal with or a local one...all she'd need to do is call it in.
If you need more info, let me know.

Thanks!!
 

Jenni Luttrell
Weanling
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been reading but not posting. Wishing you all the best!!!
You can get the test strips from anyone that does well water testing. Maybe contact the county or city they usually have someone that tests local drinking water wells for appraisal value.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Jenni
 

Jenni Luttrell
Weanling
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

your welcome. I'm learning a ton from reading all the post here. I grew up with 60 broodmares but was blessed with not haveing many problems.
hopes and prayers with you all
 

Jenni Luttrell
Yearling
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 55
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a little off topic but thought i'd ask with all the tb people here. Have any of you heard of a tb stallion named Prince Love A Lot? I'm pretty sure he's passed on as he'd be close to 30 or better, but I would love to get my hands on one of his colts. All i know about his papers is his name and that he had red stars on the right hand corner of his papers. they were supposed to mean something but I dont know what.
Joanie - I looked at your web site nice looking foals!!!! I really apreciate a TB breeder that puts some leg up under their foals!
 

cathy Cook
Yearling
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 98
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, never heard of him.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Yearling
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 59
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 12:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy- Thanks, he wasnt a race horse, or famous for anything that I know of, but he was an awsome stallion.
 

Linda Botterill
Nursing Foal
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 06:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, been reading all your post as my mare Velvet looks like she is going to abort ( the vets words) She is 269 day , bleeding from vulva then last few days bagged up & dripping milk. Is there anything I can do for her to make her more comfortable while she goes through this ! So heartbreaking!
Keeping fingers crossed for us all !
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regumate 20 mls and banamine 10 mls two times a day.
 

Mood Swings
Nursing Foal
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plus antibiotic treatment as recommended by your vet and lots of love. Good Luck with your mare!
 

Linda Botterill
Nursing Foal
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, thanks for replies. She has had antbiotics, she is also on regumate & ventapulmin( which could be your banamine, I live in France)
Also told her to keep legs crossed !!
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is she also on Isoxuprine? No ventipulmin is a bronchial dialator, Banamine is a pain killer and also reduces swelling.
 

Linda Botterill
Nursing Foal
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 04:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi , Cathy
No she is not on Isoxuprine, what is it ?
Sorry for my ignorance , this is my first time.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 111
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isoxsuprine is used to increase blood flow in navicular horses but when used as a reproductive aid it increases blood flow to the uterous. Some have ound it even increases the birth weight on the foal.
 

Linda Botterill
Weanling
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, just to let you know Velvet lost the battle to keep her foal. She aborted a perfect filly this morning. My thoughts are with the rest of you.
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am so sorry Linda, my thoughts are with you.
 

Colleen Beck
Weanling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Linda, I am so sorry to hear that. Is Velvet okay? Thoughts and prayers are with you today.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 111
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats awful Linda, I am sorry too!!!
 

Linda Botterill
Weanling
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everybody. Velvet did really well, recovery rate is amazing. Vet coming back tomorrow to see her. Not sure if I could ever go through with this again.!!
 

Lori Coleman
Yearling
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 93
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So sorry to hear that, Linda. My heart goes out to you.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, I was very sorry to hear about the loss of Velvet's foal. Do you have necropsies done to discover the cause? I once had a mare deliver a foal in the field and the placenta came out with the foal. By the time I got there the foal was dead[it was the day we had planned to bring her in to "foal watch"]. I had them bury the foal because I just couldn't watch the mare keep nipping her to get her up. Later I was told I should had had testing done...I re bred the mare and she had a healthy filly the following year. I wish you all the best.
 

Linda Botterill
Weanling
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, its a long story but everything was going really well lots of movement everyday. Then just over 2 weeks ago she was tied up outside eating when we had a sonic boom, she flew up in the air & after that I never felt the foal move again & I knew it had died. The next day she started to have problems, pawing ground then bleeding a few days later. The vet agreed it had been dead for a while as placenta was drying. She recommended I bury her so we have. Thanks for all your kind wishes.
 

Nancy McGee
Breeding Stock
Username: Ndv101

Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Linda that is so sad. I hate to hear things like that. But nature knows best. So sorry for your loss.....
 

cathy Cook
Breeding Stock
Username: Razmacat

Post Number: 115
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 03:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of a necropsy I just culture my mare, easier and cheaper. A lot cheaper.
 

Dianne Edwards
Yearling
Username: Mamaedwards

Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda I am so sorry to hear about your foal. Hope your mare will be fine, peace be with you.
 

Mood Swings
Weanling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, I am so sorry for your loss :-( I am glad to hear that your mare is doing well. My sincere condolences.
 

Sandy Smith
Nursing Foal
Username: Sandystone

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda, I am so very sorry to hear about the loss of your foal. I can imagine how heartbreaking that is. Hope your mare recovers easily with no problems.
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 189
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Linda,

I am so sorry for our loss. Last year I lost a full term filly. Red Bag. Devastating. But after a little time and having my mare checked by my vet decided to try again. So here I am with new hope and anxiety at day 200. My thoughts are with you as you go through this. Most important is that your mare is okay. Jan
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all of you,
I want to thank all of you that responded to my posts, offered sympathy, suggestions, advice and generally helped me thru Toy Moon's trouble time.
Aborting twins really threw me into a depression. It made me second guess myself & my vet...but it all boiled down to my vet missing seeing twins via u/s early on. This could not have been a more simple fix...IF he'd seen twins. But he didn't.
Nothing I can do, they twins are gone. My dream has faded to black now, and I am not sure what I'll do.
Thank goodness Toy Moon is fine.
Once again...THANK YOU SO MUCH...you are a great bunch of folks.
I also hope that other members that are watching their mares and seeing problems have better luck that I did and that your mares carry to term.
"There are no foolish dreams"
www.foolishdreamfarm.com
 

Lori Coleman
Breeding Stock
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 105
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I'm so sorry to hear about the pregnancy loss. I know vets are supposed to be the experts, but I'll tell you that when I've looked at ultrasounds I'd be hard pressed to see a darn thing at all. With all the technological advances in medicine, it's still hard to be perfect. I'm glad Toy Moon is fine (awesome name by the way). I hope you find solace in her health and happiness. I hope you try again...
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, I'm really sorry about Toy Moon and her babies. I know it is really hard to deal with, 2 years ago I had a maiden mare abort at 167 days and it took a lot of strength to get through it. On the happy side, the same mare is 313 days today with a healthy pregnancy (I hope). Are you going to rebreed Toy Moon for an 2008 baby? Keep us posted and hang in there, my thoughts are with you.

Update on Granny, she is 321 days today and still not bleeding. That is such a blessing. She is doing fine and I am patiently waiting for foaling time. I just hope everything goes well during and after foaling and baby is healthy after all of the medication. I am sorry I never posted any pics, I usually only get on the computer long enough to read posts and then log off. Anyways, good luck to all!
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Joanie, I was worried when you didn't post for a while. I am so sorry that twins were the cause of Toy's early bagging. I know the devastating feeling of losing the foal...and now two. How sad. I am thinking of you and am grateful for all the help you offered to me and others here.
My mare, Bonzarella, is at day 310. She is dripping some milk, but it seems to be pushed out when she walks rather than just streaming out as I have seen other mares do just before foaling. We have been busy here and I have hardly had the energy to face nights on foal watch. So far I have been lucky. I mentioned to my Vet that she may have missed twins. She knocked on wood and said that in 17yrs she had never missed twins, but she knows it can happen [and is more common in TBs?]
It is so sad to have so much riding on this one pregnancy and then suffer the loss. Again, I am so sorry.
Barbara
 

Linda Botterill
Weanling
Username: Linda_b

Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie, so so sorry for your loss. Hope Toy Moon continues to do well.
Thank to everyone for the kind wishes, the vet has been to see Velvet today & she is doing great !!
Good luck Jan, I admire your strength as I am not sure as this would have been my first foal, if I could go through this again. I will keep reading the posts.
Good luck also to Barbara & mood swings.
 

Mood Swings
Weanling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie - I am so sorry for you :-( I was so hopefull for your mare. I am glad to hear that she is doing well, were you able to be there? Do not second-guess or blame yourself, it is not your fault and was out of your control, by the sounds of things you did everything humanely possible to help her. Again so very sorry for your loss :-(
Jane is now at 300 days, her udder is getting larger by the day. I am praying that she can hold on for at least 2 more weeks and then . . . we'll see.
 

Joanie Davison
Weanling
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all you wonderful gals...
Thanks again for your sympathy & support.
Linda...you know how sorry I am about Velvet loosing her foal...it's even worse when it's just one and it looks perfect. My heart feels your pain as we are both going thru this together. I also buried the twins that Toy aborted.
Sounds like Velvet is doing Ok, as is Toy Moon. How old a mare is she? If you decide to breed her again, my suggestion would be to have her hormaone levels checked every trimester...since she had a perfect foal the reason for her aborting may be an imbalance with her hormone levels. Toy Moon's last 2 pregnancies were helped by giving her oral progesterone during the first 4 months...it didn't help her this time because she was carrying twins, which my vet failed to see via u/s.
Conner...great news for your mare...she seems to be doing good now and at 321 days she will give you a healthy baby...be sure to keep us posted, and you know i wish you good luck.
Barbara...Bonzarella is going to make it...I just know she will. Have you thought about getting a barn camera...those things are by far the best money you can spend. I know it saved Stately Morn's foal last year...if i didn't have the camera set up at that time I would not have gone out to check her until at least midnight...but at 10pm I looked at the monitor and she was down tryint to give birth...I had to help the foal as he had a leg bent and his head was turned...once I got him sorted out, he came with no problem. If not for that camera, all would have been lost. As it turned out, Stately Morn ruptured her cervix and my vet was here for 3 days stopping the bleeding...she pulled thru and I retired her from breeding.
My thoughts and good wishes are with all of you.

On another note...Jenni...are you sure you have the name of that stallion right? There was a nice horse back about the same time your Prince Love a Lot with a similar name...Prince Thou Art...could this be the stallion you are referring to? You mentioned his papers...can you give me some names from his papers? If you can, I may be able to trace him down for you.

Thanks again gals...you are all in my thoughts and once again...I appreciate all of you!!

PS...I hate it that we don't get an email notification anymore to post replies...that stinks!!
 

Ivy Rittenhouse
Nursing Foal
Username: Appalotranch

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie,
I am so sorry to hear about your mare twinning. I have a mare, Bobbye, that I suspect twins. I had the vet out to look at her but she said there was no way she could determine if she was, and if not she would be having a huge foal. I am really concerned, please look at this picture, taken at day 297.... does she look anything like your mare? I know mares shape differently but was your mare this big? Thanks, Ivy

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/appalotranch/Bobbyeday297.jpg
 

Colleen Beck
Weanling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IVY: Holy Monkeys! She is definitely big! She does appear to be a small framed mare which can make their bellies look larger in comparison. How is she doing? Foal movement? How many foals has she had? I know that some "seasoned" broodmares tend to look really big early on because they are so stretched out. Keep us posted.
 

Ivy Rittenhouse
Nursing Foal
Username: Appalotranch

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,
Thanks for looking at Bobbye; there is major foal movement, one can see the foal(s) moving from 50 feet away. This will be her 6th foal, and she has never been this size with any of them. She started producing an udder at day 269, and with in three days she was half way there so we put her on antibiotics just in case of placentitis. She has a hard time turning around, and when she walks she walks very slow and heavy...I feel so sorry for her...actually...I am scared for her every time I see her. Today she is day 300, and looking at her udder I would think I will be camping out side day and night with her soon as I feel I have got to be there for her no matter what. I need to give her her 5 way shot today, and I am afraid to do that and stress her system, but we are going to give it to her any way. I usually de-worm at day 300 but I'll wait a week and not do it the same time I give the shot. She actually makes my other two mares, in foal, look like they aren't nearly as far along as they are but just 10 days behind her.
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
I am new to the site. My mare is 358 days and counting - a maiden. I freaked yesterday when I noted a very large "mass" between her front legs. The ranch manager told me not to worry - it is milk. I have not seen this before nor read about it in any books. How normal is this? It just appeared suddenly, is firm to the touch and is not painful. She bagged up about 2 wks ago and has started to wax.}}
 

Mood Swings
Weanling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Ivy your mare is certainly on the large size for 300 days. I would think that by her size and the early udder developement you are facing a problem of some sort. Rest assured you are doing everything you can, all you can do now is watch her closely and try to have people on hand to help you out if you need it. Keep us posted. Sending happy thoughts your way and wishing you lots of luck :-)
 

Colleen Beck
Weanling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Shelly,

That would be edema, not milk, and is not uncommon. Turning her out to get some mild exercise or hand walking her will help with the edema. 358 days! You poor girl! I hope for your sanity she goes soon
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Colleen,
My mare is in a stall that has a large outdoor turnout that she access to during the day. I do see her walking around on a daily basis. She is a TB, so does have the energy to burn. It does not appear to be edema to me - is very firm to the touch. It has a very well defined shape and hangs down about 1.5-2 inches from her chest, about 5 in wide, tapering about 10 in down her chest to her abd. Like I said before - it is new to me and I am probably just being a worried mom.
 

Nancy McGee
Breeding Stock
Username: Ndv101

Post Number: 142
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ivy I have been wondering about you and your mare. I hope she continues to hold off but you know she is miserable, poor girl.
 

Mood Swings
Weanling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Shelley,
As Colleen said edema is not uncommon in late term gestation. The edema is often hard as you are describing it to be and sometimes resembles a "shelf" of swelling under their midline. Sometimes you can make an indentation in the swelling with your finger and it will come right back. For whatever reason this happens to some mares and not others :-)
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks so much for the info! It is a relief knowing. I was about to call my vet out.
 

Barbara Ritz
Nursing Foal
Username: Spring

Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I have had a busy and tiring week so I reluctantly took my pillow to the barn this evening, sure that tonight would be the night. The mares would not let the workers catch them tonight. I agreed to leave them out thinking that I would get all set up for the night in front of the camera and then bring them in myself. At around 9PM I went out with a flashlight and could tell something was different from the reaction of the horses. Way in the back of the field I could see Bonzarella with a dark lump at her feet!!! I was afraid to find it dead and indeed it was cold and damp to the touch, but she jumped right up!! This had to be one time I ventured out without my phone. I rounded up the other mare and her 7 mo old filly and went to the barn to get help.
Bonzarella had given birth to a filly at 312 days. There appears to be some contracture of her right hind fetlock. I got her to the barn and did the enema, navel dip and milked the mare. After the baby drank 4 oz from the bottle she seemed to catch on to the nursing. Bonzarella, who would not cooperate for a milk test all week, was reluctant to let the foal nurse but after I got some milk out and washed her udder with a warm rag, she seemed happy to be milked. After that she accepted the foal. They are now taking a nap together under the heat lamp and when I am sure she is nursing well I am off to bed as well. Just wanted to let you know and to say thanks for all of the advice and good wishes!
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 03:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey everyone
I am new to the whole breeding thing I just purchased a percheron mare less than a week a go only to get her home and learn she is due any day I was just wondering if any one can tell me what to watch for, give me any tips or signs or anything I really apreciate it.
 

Lori Coleman
Breeding Stock
Username: Editorlady

Post Number: 135
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara--I wish you all the luck a wish can muster for that filly to be healthy! I'll hopefully await what you have to report! Darn good thing you went to the barn and then found her out there in the pasture--way to be a horse mom trooper!
 

Ivy Rittenhouse
Nursing Foal
Username: Appalotranch

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nancy: Thanks for the thoughts, Bobbye can use all the prayers and good vibes she can get...I believe in the power of prayer! I gave her her day 300 shot, last night, and my husband, Jim, brushed her up all pretty so she'd feel better. I'll update her progress every once and awhile.

Barbra: Congratulations on your new filly!! 312 days is a little early, but glad there is a happy ending. Send pictures as soon as you can. Ivy
 

Colleen Beck
Yearling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations Barbara! Thankfully, you were there at the right time to bring that little punkin in. We're chompin at the bit for pictures.

Anyone keepin' a tally of fillies vs colts?
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank yall Alot really
 

Colleen Beck
Yearling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Amanda,

Welcome to the board. There is always someone here to answer your questions so....ask away!
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 986
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ivy~
my mare last year at about the same time was HUGE! she may have been a close running to bigger than your mare, she delivered ONE colt on Easter morning (large for her build), the only difference, my mare didnt even begin to bag until about 335 days. My mare was 17 at the time and it was her 3rd foal, I was told that she was just stretched out and had weak abdominal muscles, so she let it all hang out! People on the board even made cracks about her carrying an elephant or a coffee table sideways!
so heres praying its ONE FOAL and hangs on for a couple more weeks!
Joanne~ I am so sorry for your loss...hang in there and dont give up!
 

Cconner
Weanling
Username: Cconner

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara, I am soooo happy for you and your new baby!!!!! Please post pics soon, I am excited to see her and momma.
 

Mood Swings
Weanling
Username: Mood_swings

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara - huge congrats to you! I am glad your filly is alive and well :-) :-)
 

Nancy McGee
Breeding Stock
Username: Ndv101

Post Number: 145
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 01:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barbara congrats. Pictures please.
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just wondering what I should look for. I think her bag is developing so about how long will it be.she is such a huge horse but sweet so how hard do you think it will be for her to have it
 

JANE OLNEY
Yearling
Username: Shotsnurse1

Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amanda, there are multiple pictures of things to look for throughout these pages. It is hard to get organized, but go to the top of the page and choose new posts, 1 day. You will find the most current posts there. We have a great maiden mare thread going. You will see many of the look for signs there in picture form. Everyone will want to see some pictures of your mare's belly from the side and back. We will also want to see her bag. We will also want to see your new baby. Any questions, just ask away!
 

JANE OLNEY
Yearling
Username: Shotsnurse1

Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Normally the bag "cooks" for about 4-5 weeks. My mare had her bag for not more than a week. Needless to say, I was not ready and missed the birth. Some of these mares are going forever..... welcome to the board.
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 01:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks I really hate to sound dumb but what does cook mean. I really meant it when I said thuis is my first time. I even thought she would not get a bag until after the baby came. I also heard that her hips would drop what does that mean? Thanks for helping me
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amanda,
Don't worry about sounding dumb. I just had my first baby yesterday - A COLT at }}360 days! - and I was asking questions of everyone up until the end. I almost called my vet out for what turned out to be ventral edena - something I had never heard of. I have the book - "The Foal is the Goal" and it has answered many of my questions. I also recommend taking the Equine-Repro short course if you plan on doing more breeding. They go through everything!
Good Luck with everything!
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Had to share my baby photos with you all. He is the first for Sterling's Farm and I am so happy. My maiden mare did it all by herself with no problems. He did not want to nurse for quite a while - over 5 hrs! and I was getting ready to milk her and bottle feed him, but luckily he figured it out. What a relief!http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/sterling-shagyas/IMG_5016.jpg http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/sterling-shagyas/IMG_5071.jpg
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/sterling-shagyas/IMG_5055.jpg
Thanks for all your help!
Shelley
 

Barbara Ritz
Weanling
Username: Spring

Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amanda, lots of people use non scientific tems like "cooking" when refering to the time the foal stays in the mare [much like we refer to "having one in the oven"]. It just means a longer time for the foal to complete the gestational period needed to survive outside the mare. As for the hips dropping...If you run your hand over the rump of a fit horse the area from the top of the croup to the hip bone will feel firm. On the mare ready to foal the area will be soft and you can "giggle" the formerly firm muscle. The vulva will also lengthen and swell a little. If you can get the water hardness test strips and your mare will allow it, doing the test on her milk is a big help. All you need is one cc of her milk and 6 cc of distilled water and the test strip. When there is a significant jump to the last color block on the chart the mare should foal in 24 hours. Good luck to you!
 

Dianne Edwards
Breeding Stock
Username: Mamaedwards

Post Number: 129
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shelley your colt is adorable! Congratulations, did you name him yet? Glad to hear a maiden doing well, mine is due any day
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CONGRATULAITON!!! SHELLEY he is gorgeous.I Think we will go in a few days lucy's udder is a little over half full today and she is sweaty and nervous, it could be the heat but her sister is not sweaty at all. So hopefully we will go in a few days. I hope everyone else is doing great. everyone pray for me because I have never even seen this happen before. Thank yall for all of your help.
 

Nancy McGee
Breeding Stock
Username: Ndv101

Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea Shelley, good job.
 

Shelley Housh
Neonate
Username: Sterling_shagyas

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks! No name yet - that is the difficult part.
 

JANE OLNEY
Yearling
Username: Shotsnurse1

Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amanda-
Here is a link to the photobucket of the most recent percheron, Casper, to give birth. Here you will see udder development etc.
http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/reklaww/?action=view&current=DSCN0952.jpg
 

Colleen Beck
Yearling
Username: Gypsycreations

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulation Shelly! What a cutey with those 4 perfect little white socks!
 

Amanda Pearrson
Neonate
Username: Apearson

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks that was really helpful jane. what day did she foal on?
 

JANE OLNEY
Yearling
Username: Shotsnurse1

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sonya Walker is the owner. You can search her posts by using the search option. It will bring up all her posts.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Breeding Stock
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 301
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 09:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie Davis - I've been off for a while and just seen your offer the only discepancy with his name is it could be prince loves alot or prince love alot. He was a roan blue with the red flecks and about 16 -16.2 hands tall. I dont no if you can do anything with this info but its all I have. oh we bought him in Mississippi. I would apreciate any help THANK YOU
 

Paige Dorsey
Neonate
Username: Realrush89

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys, I had a question about this topic. As of today, my mare is at 306 days. A few weeks ago she started to develop some mild ventral edema, but only in the area right in front of and including parts of her udder. Since our whole farm is nothing but fescue, I had to pull her off the pasture, so she only has a small drylot paddock that her stall opens out onto to move around in. Per the vet's advice, I've been taking her for walks every day when I get home, weather permitting. So far, the walks have always helped to bring a lot of the swelling down. I took some pics last Saturday, 3/21, just for the heck of it as documentation for her pregnancy progression. She is not a maiden mare, but I am unsure how many babies she's had in the past.
Well, I was unable to walk her Sun or Mon due to weather. When I got home Tuesday, I was actually shocked at how big they had gotten. They were easily 2-3 times the size they had ever been before. I took her for a good walk, but I could not tell a bit of difference in the size of her udders when I got back. So, I guess what I'm asking is, could she possibly be starting to bag up as well? This is my first baby from her, so I have no idea what her normal pattern for shaping up may be. She was a rescue a few years ago, so I have no way of contacting any previous owners to ask them, either. I'll attach a few pics to hopefully give a better idea. All of them were taken AFTER going on a good 20-minute or so walk. The first one is from last Sat, the other 2 from Tues (when I freaked!). The swelling is very firm feeling, and yesterday after I walked her I could tell a difference in the size, but they are still a good bit bigger than last Sat. Any advice or ideas anyone can give is greatly appreciated.
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/paiged72/3-24-2010-04.jpg
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/paiged72/3-24-2010-02.jpg
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx174/paiged72/3-24-2010-01.jpg
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3012
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Paige, I think her udder looks great for her gestation. Some mares bag 2 months in advance! Typically 4-6 wks. Either way, sounds as if she's right on track to me. Doesn't look as if she has too much actual edema...looks more like udder development.
 

Paige Dorsey
Neonate
Username: Realrush89

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Diana. I used to work at a big breeding farm-- over a decade ago. So I was really out of the loop about these topics when I decided to breed my mare last year. I've learned so much just from everyone's postings on this board. This girl means a lot to me, enough to make me want a baby out of her, so of course any little thing that goes wrong or looks funky I immediately worry about. Thanks for allaying some of my fears.
I know it's hard to tell from just a side view, but each teat is a solid inch thick or so. Even thicker when she's been stocking up all day before I get home. So you think she's on track and not too early?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3014
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2010 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think I'd worry much about it if she were mine. I'd be happy she was getting an udder after being on fescue LOL. (I have a problem this year with mares not bagging b/c of endophyte infested fescue...we're doing the domperidone, and bought all new hay, etc.) But, If she's starting to bag 4 wks or so in advance, she's still right on track for a day 340 or so foaling. I'd definitely keep exercising her though...as it does tend to help with the edema. I would not doubt that some of that was an udder building, even though alot is edema.
 

Paige Dorsey
Nursing Foal
Username: Realrush89

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again! You've really helped give me some more insight. She's been off the pasture since the end of Jan, but as the baby gets bigger, she moves around less. Especially when the weather is bad and she just stands inside. Which doesn't help the edema problem at all, of course.
 

Eilean Dubh
Neonate
Username: Eilean

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello First time poster, sorry if in wrong thread and for length of this post. Advice needed please. I have a 9 yo maiden mare, who was streaming milk at 205 days, vet (experienced equine vet), instructed the visiting vet to start her on antibiotics, anti-inflammatories (spell) and regumate, until he could visit,(he was out of area at time),he visited after 2 days of above treatment, was sure it was placentitis, scanned her very active foal, plancenta normal continued on treatment for 5 days. No change, adviced to stop everything but regumate and double the dose of it, now 219 days remains on double dose regumate, vet not holding much hope, she is no longer streaming, bag has softened a little but still dripping occasionally. Vulva varies from soft and floppy to tight I think depending on how long since regumate given, no discharge. We are giving regumate x1 per day should we divide dose and give x2. So sorry for the long post. She has good appetite in fact gaining weight since we have been watching so closely and restricted, was in paddock prior to this happening. Has anyone every had this happen this early and maintain the pregancy.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2842
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First confirm that the foal is still alive. You don't want to perform heroics if it's already dead... This is achieved by rectal palpation and determination of fetal movement.

Most of the other things that are normally done in this situation appear to have been performed, but with a minor difference. It is generally agreed that keeping the mare on the broad-spectrum antibiotics (TMP-SMZ's are most commonly used), progestins and anti-inflammatories until about 310 days is recommended. At 310 days, stop the progestins and anti-inflammatories, but keep going with the antibiotics. For convenience, you might want to investigate the long-acting progesterone or altrenogest injections available from BET Pharmacy which need to be given only once a week (rather than the daily Regumate). Additionally, you might want to consider giving the mare estrogens (also available from BET Pharmacy) as some early research results demonstrated an increased foal survival rate in placentitis mares that were treated with estrogens in addition to the other treatments.

I personally would not have stopped the treatments that were initially commenced, but would keep going as above.

Be aware that if you do make it to term, the foal has been exposed to a pathogen in utero and is therefore high-risk for neonatal septicaemia, so a course of prophylactic antibiotics at foaling is usually recommended. Also be aware that the placental/endometrial attachment has been compromised, so a higher instance of "red bag" delivery may occur, making it vitally important that someone knowledgeable be present at foaling. Additionally, gestational durations may be shorter as nature tends to speed up fetal development in these situations, so be prepared for an earlier-than-normal foaling!
 

Eilean Dubh
Neonate
Username: Eilean

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, thank you for quick reply. I did question vet about continuing with placentitis treatment and he said unnecessary, I'm unsure whether this is because he thinks she will abort anyway, he was sure that there was no sign of infection, placenta normal, no separation correct thickness, he feels she has low progesterone levels, not checked as he is trying to save more expense to me. To be fair to him he has said that he does not know what will happen, he does have a soft spot for this mare. I'm in Australia so will look into possibility of altrenogest injections, not sure if we can get here. Foal is still alive, has been confirmed. I'm at a loss what to think. I will contact vet tomorrow about whether I should recommence previously ceased treatments. To be honest every day she is still in foal is a wonder and more stress. My dilema is if I'm doing her more harm by trying to maintain this pregnancy at this early stage. She is very bright missing her paddock mates but no sign of depression or distress.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2843
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mare is at 205 days of pregnancy - progesterone levels are meant to be low to zero!!! Take a look at our article about progesterone supplementation.

I doubt that you will be able to get the biorelease progestins I referenced, although I believe BET do have an outlet in Australia - you might want to contact the USA office to ask if it is available in AU.

You won't be "doing more harm" by trying to maintain the pregnancy - it's either going to maintain or not, but with a little assistance it might maintain, while without the assistance it might not. The chances that it should not be maintained (because of some negative fetal condition for example) are extremely small. The only exception would be twins, but it has been shown that mares will abort through progestin supplementation, so even that is not likely to have a major negative impact.
 

Eilean
Neonate
Username: Eilean

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes I have read that article and anything I can find on placentitis so was feeling a little confused. Mare is looking a bit better today vulva tighter, still no discharge, only small drop of milk on teat. Continuing as is until I can get to talk to vet. Thanks again for reply. U/S's didn't show twins but then again having being reading on here it could still be possible I guess.



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