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Mare coming into season very very late

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 1 » Mare coming into season very very late « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 152.163.100.14
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 8 yr old Arabian Mare is in full estrus... which is strange considering it is nearly Thanksgiving...

Little history She has had one foal a 2002 filly , and was hard to get pregnant then...
We failed to get her to settle in 2003 and also failed in the summer of 2004

In 2004 the stallion used was breeding but only by live cover... despite being ultrasounded and confirmed that she was in estrus in July she would not even let the stallion near her... We continued to try her through Sept 2004 and gave up.

She cultured postive IN Jan 2004 was flushed and culture clean,, vet reports no abnormalities in the uterus but she was not biopsed...

I really thought we would have to put her under lights and P/E her next Feb 2005...

Now I am not too sure...

On 11/19 she was out to pasture and the stallion owner noticed that she left the herd.. and was running the fence line screaming... She was showing to the two geldings... ( she had stopped teasing the mare) she placed her in the round pen and bought the stallion to her leaving the mare free to move away if she chose... She stayed and allowed the stallion to mount and breed her.

She is still in full estrus and has been bred ( live cover) again on Saturday and Sunday....

My question is should I be concerned? She has never shown this strongly ever....

Any recommendations? We will check her by ultrasound the third week in december...
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My guess is that the mare knows best! I don't think Thanksgiving is too late.....Christmas, maybe but even both my mares aren't usually "quiet" until mid-december and I live in WI. It sounds like she's been worked up for breeding soundness pretty well, so see what happens at her followup ultrasound. Ya never know!!!!
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot to ad that I am in Dallas TX and the temps have been very moderate.. 60's to low 80s...

We shall see..


thanks I hope she takes
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 145.254.116.71
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Breeding in November, even if you are in Texas, is very late! Should your mare settle,your foal will be considered a yearling at the age of 2 month. That poor foal will play catchup for the rest of its life!!
On my farm no mare gets bred after May 31, since the resulting foals have a hard time in the showring and cannot readily be sold either.
But if you can afford breeding for pets that might be ok.
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know enough about every breed's registry requirements, but I don't think what you posted is a blanket statement for the entire horse world! Sounds like a throughbred rule to me. But I do stand to be corrected. If this were my mare and foal and the foal was born in October 2005, it would qualify as a weanling for 2006 and a yearling in 2007. And it would actually be bigger then the other weanlings!
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 205.188.116.13
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Annony--
The only registery that you have to be concerned with in a late breeding is the Jockey CLub of America with the TB's..

I am not into halter horses and aim more for Competitive trail or Endurance... The mare is on lease and the decision to breed her was not my own but the person who leased her... She obviously does not care if the foal was born late.

I would suggest you be carefull on who you judge.. I did not ask you to make a judgement on the fact she was bred... I was concerned and still am that there may be another reason why she would have gone into Estrus so late in the season.. Your response did not answer that issue.


This mare has great bloodlines and will be difficult to replace... so I agree with the stallion owner on this particular mare.. I would take every chance given to get her pregnant

THe stallion owner is looking for a performance prospect not a halter prospect... and most Arabs are not heavily campaigned til they are 4 or older as far as performance.. unless you are into the Futuries.. which this breeder is not.

I can not tell a stallion owner who has leased my mare when she can and can not breed the mare.

If the decision were mine I would consider all the ramifications of breeding this late.. but more important is the fact that this mare is very difficult to breed and settle.. we tried for two seasons to get her pregnant with no success... and with a mare like her sometimes you "HAVE" to take what you chances you get.... this might be the only chance to get a foal from this mare...

When you deal with problems mares sometimes you have to grasp the opportunities given as they may be the only ones you have.. is it ideal no.. but she decided she would rather have a foal than none at all.

My concern was that could there be something else going on that could be causing her to come into season so late esp since this mare has never shown this strongly in her life ( she is 8 yrs old).

She will take her to the vet in a couple of weeks so the question willbe addressed then... I was just hoping someone on this forum could give me some suggestions.. so that I could discuss it with the Vet when she is seen.



Thanks
 

Jos
Posted From: 165.121.193.155
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About 85% of mares go into true winter anestrus - in other words they "shut down" cyclicity during the winter months. Therefore 15% do not. However, simply because they are showing estrus (heat) does not meant that they are actually ovulating.

The first step therefore is to confirm ovulation by either progesterone assay or serial ultrasounds.

If the mare is indeed continuing to ovulate, then she may well stay that way throughout the winter (fatter mares tend to fall into this category more often for example), although continuing a lighting program may assist further.

If the mare is not ovulating, then 60-90 days of lighting will be necessary.

The only registery that you have to be concerned with in a late breeding is the Jockey CLub of America with the TB's..

Actually, that is not correct. A large number of horse breeds in the northern hemisphere use January 1st as the "official birthday" of their animals. Breeds that do not use this system are actually in the minority.
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 152.163.100.14
Posted on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 02:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks For the Correction.. but really that issue was not the question and not my concern in that the foal being bred for is the stallion owners.. if she was concerned with a later born foal then she would not have bred the mare...

And I have looked in the AHRA rules and the wording is different than that of the Jockey clubs rules...

But as I said before the stallion owner is not intersted in participating in Futuries. which is were most of the age rules applies ( limiting the classes to horses to a specific age I want to say under 4 yrs of age.. )

What I take issue with is that any foal not born early in the year must be a Pet... Sorry that does not jive....

I will have the Person who has leased the mare have the vet draws some blood.... if the mare is not ovluating that is okay by me... I would rather she be bred in March or April of Next year.. but as I said beforethe decision on when to breed her it is out of my hands, as long as it does not put the mares health and life at risk.
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 08:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Liz,
Keep us posted on the mare!!
 

Sandy
Posted From: 4.228.165.34
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I take issue with is that any foal not born early in the year must be a Pet... Sorry that does not jive....

I couldn't agree with you more!
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 69.196.220.208
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sandy - Why would any foal born late in the year only be considered a pet?

I have known several late foals that have gone on to have successful careers in dressage, H/J and eventing. I think unless you are breeding for the line or racing the birth month will ultimately not matter as be the time the horse is old enough to enter the competative workd they are physically caught up to horses born earlier in their year of birth.

Sorry to high jack this thread, I just don't understand the logic.
 

Eagle View Arabians
Posted From: 205.188.116.13
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read the entire post, Sandy was not stating a foal born late in the year is a pet, an anonymous poster was. Sandy was stating that she took issue with someone considering a late foal only a pet.
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Eagle, I was just about to post that same statement.

Sandy, any word on your mare?
 

Sandy
Posted From: 4.228.243.105
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Eagle View for correcting that.
Just to make myself clear: I was agreeing with the poster "Liz Hardy" that a foal born late in the year does NOT make it only pet quality.

Sorry for any confusion.
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 152.163.100.13
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not confused. I lnew exactly what you meant :-)

The mare will be going to the vet this Weds. and be checked. If she is pregnant that will be great.. if not then the stallion owner will wait til next year....

No matter when this foal is born it will be wanted, cared for and loved...

I will keep you all posted.. thanks
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Talk about confused, I mixed up Liz and Sandy! Liz, I look forward to hearing abou the mare!!
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 152.163.100.13
Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone the mare was ultrasounded this Morning and she is pregnant. Vet says between 2-3 weeks

So the person who leased my mare will be expecting a baby by mid Oct 2005.

She can not wait. I too am excited and hope that she maintians the pregnancy.

I will keep everyone posted

This Mare has always marched to her own drum.. so I should not be surprised that she came into season and ovulated when most mares here had already shut down for the season.

thanks
 

Sandy
Posted From: 4.227.133.155
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Liz,
That's great! I hope the folks who leased your mare are just tickled.
I have a mare here that has never got pregnant in the 12 years that I've owned her. She is my pride and joy, and I'll tell you what, I would be happy as all get out no matter what time of the year she would get pregnant....if she only would!
 

twhgait
Posted From: 69.23.219.90
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AWESOME!!!! Congrats!! I just KNEW that mare knew what she was doing!!!
 

Liz Hardy
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well we had her progesterone tested and it was way too low to maintain the pregnancy so she is on regumate.. She willbe tested again in 3 months and if she is okay we can take her off the regumate...

I really hate that she has to have it... as it sure makes her pregnancies more expensive

But she is pregnant Whoopie!!!!
 

Faye Gallagher
Neonate
Username: Cazdan_arabians

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good grief, saying they should be pets if born late....Here in Oz in the milder climate a lot of arabian mares don't shut down at all during winter. In fact one of the breeders called her June (our winter) born foal Winter Lust.
Faye
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 601
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If one is not concerned about showing a foal then one does not need to worry about how early or late a foal is born. Once a foal is out of its first year of life everything in most registeries here in the United States is considered a year old in Januray. So after you get past the first year and even the yearling year, when growth slows down the birth month does not make a difference . Jan. 1st= another birthday!



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