My 7 yr old mare was not successfully bred after several AI attempts.the last AI attempt 6/7/2003 .. she was trialed on regumate then given HCG and AI'd. Regumate was resumed and she checked in foal 20 days later . She was continued on regumate and confirmed pregnant through day 60 but only by palpation (vet's ultraound machine broken).
I had her ultrasounded 8/19 but no pregnancy..vet said she aborted within the last 2-3 weeks.
I am hearing a lot of rumors that the WNV vaccine may be playing some part in this.
Have several friends who swear that it was the vaccine that caused the problems last year and this year did not give it and mares are now pregnant
Is there any truth to this? And any suggestions for next season? ( Do not want a late foal so willnot attempt to breed her for this year.)
Jen K. Posted From: 188.8.131.52
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:57 pm:
You might want to check out this site : Lost-foals-group.4t.com Certainly makes you wonder. My mare was vaccinated in April and bred in june. She was still pregnant at 60 days; hopefully I'll be lucky when we check her at 90.
Jos Posted From: 184.108.40.206
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 11:05 pm:
Vaccination, deworming or contact with any toxin is contraindicated during the first 60 (and ideally 100) days of pregnancy, as organogenesis is occuring during that time, and interference with that will cause pregnancy loss. This seems to be a factor being seriously overlooked by persons using the WNV vaccine.
There is a lot of "urban legend" springing up over the WNV vaccine, and the site mentioned above (which is basically histrionic, and offered no solid scientific evidence the last time I reviewed it) is a good example of that.
For more discussion on the WNV vaccine got to this thread on the bulletin board.
Jos the mare in question was not given any vaccinations while being bred or pregnant.. I already know not to give vaccinations during the first trimester...
So she was not vaccinated , wormed or in contact with any known toxin while being bred or during the first 60days... and yet she aborted through regumate
Jos Posted From: 220.127.116.11
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 01:31 am:
As you are, I am sure, aware, there are a wide variety of causes for pregnancy failure. In fact, about 30% of established <35 day pregnancies fail prior to foaling.
Regumate will not prevent abortion in many cases - in fact there is a strong debate about what situations Regumate will prevent abortion in!
Unless you have conclusive scientific evidence indicating WNV vaccine problems, I wouldn't jump on the bandwagon and blame it. It's far too convenient, and is undoubtedly what has caused the popularity of the claims by others for a reason for that 30% loss rate!
Did your mare have a clean culture and cytology prior to breeding?
What was your mares endometrial biopsy score?
Can you be absolutely sure there were no environmental factors? (Few can).
etc. etc. etc.
I am also left wondering how your veterinarian identified the loss as having occurred in the previous 2-3 weeks. That would be pretty difficult to do - almost to the point of impossibility!
ELizabeth Hardy Posted From: 18.104.22.168
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 07:03 pm:
I am also left wondering how your veterinarian identified the loss as having occurred in the previous 2-3 weeks. That would be pretty difficult to do - almost to the point of impossibility! *************************** On this point I agree Jos.. I am just telling you what he told me.. so it leaves me wondering how good is he really and should I change vets?
She came out neg on her cultures.. but I plan on havng them redone just to make sure she has not picked upsomething while being bred..Bveing she is only 7 didnot have biopsy done but last ultrasound Vet reported the uterous looked healthy no obvious problems or cysts seen. Abiopsy might also be need before nxt years breeding season starts
I am not saying there is or is not a link with the WNV Vaccine.. I am not in a position to even know.. just asking...
For now she will go back in training and I might try her again nxt year or might sell her and keep her 2002 Filly. Note this mare had her first foal last year and she was not easy to get in foal for that foal . I am just concerned that this is a going to be a perpetual problem and if so I will not use this mare ...
Thanks for your help
Anonymous Posted From: 22.214.171.124
Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 05:10 pm:
I was just wondering why I haven't heard of any further research done after birds in a Toronto zoo died after being given the West Nile vaccine. To me it is the missing link. To quote the article found at http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E24167%257E1503947,00.html "The dead birds' internal organs showed signs of autoimmune hemolytic anemia, an ailment that turns the body against itself, destroying red blood cells that ferry oxygen. In an e-mail to other veterinarians, the Toronto Zoo's Christopher Dutton said the deaths were "possibly" caused by the vaccination."
If you do a little research on the above problem everything concerning mares aborting and having stillbirths might start coming together.
To quote from a link at http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/ "Most of the time, a specific cause for AIHA is unrecognized. Many theories exist, but the ultimate answer is "We donít know." Dr. Jean Dodds, a veterinarian studying immunology, states in her article, The Immune System and Disease Resistance, that there are four main causative factors of autoimmune diseases. Those factors are: Genetic predisposition; Hormonal influences ; Infections, especially of viruses and Stress. Dr. Dodds also feels that the multivalent modified-live vaccines overstimulate the immune system. There may be evidence to support this theory because the Merck Veterinary Manual states: " recently, the most typical cases of AIHA in dogs have been marked by a nonregenerative anemia. Some of these cases have occurred after exposure to parvovirus or modified live parvovirus vaccine."
Jos Posted From: 126.96.36.199
Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:26 am:
Probably because the report (which was published in May, 2003) was subsequently thoroughly refuted by a variety of highly creditable sources, including USDA-Aphis!
For more information visit the article on the report at "The Horse" magazine, which you can access by clicking here.
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