Ok We have this mare that we had on P & E program. She is not progressing like a normal mare.. that was on it, but she is progressing. One weds she was a .20 and clean good uterus. Saturday she was almost at .30 will not accept a stall Monday a .35 we tried giving her a sedative cocktail IV. (ps this mare was EZ to breed last year, this year foal at side in stall) and she was falling over practically in the arena. Lip dragging barely standing. THe stallion comes in. she raises her tail squats. No winking or squirting. he ties to mount and she goes nuts kicking rearing striking. trying to rear over backward.. I have seen nothing like this before. I did not want to put hobbles on her because I am afraid she will kill herself. My question is. I have an A/V not extended etc.. My vet doesn't collect so she doesn't have any extended. I can ground collect him. Can I ground collect and my vet can A/I transfer to the mare immediately. DO I need an extended. He has super motility,and lots of concentration. Please help I don't know what else to do?
Jos Posted From: 220.127.116.11
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 11:35 am:
First I would like to refer you to my observations about P&E use which can be seen in response to another posters questions on the bulletin here. They may assist you in that respect. Note that the leading cause of failure is wrong formulation of the product. It must be compounded using estradiol 17b, and I am aware of pharmacies that are not doing that, but using other forms of estradiol - commonly estradiol cypionate - which will not work.
The next thing to be aware of is that the presence of a follicle in the equine does not indicate estrus (heat) stage. Mares can and do develop mid-cycle follicles. This means that your mare needs to be ultrasounded and the ovaries closely evaluated for the presence (or hopefully absence) of a CL, and the uterus for the presence of uterine edema (not always present during early estrus, but a valuable indicator if it is). Even better would be to run a blood-progesterone assay, as if there is progesterone present that indicates your mare is not in estrus.
Ground collecting is not that easy - you are extremely unlikley to be able to simply go ahead and slide the AV on and collect. It requires a fair amount of training to achieve collection in that manner in most cases. I have trained hundreds of stallions, and I can only think of one or two that we slid the AV onto and he ejaculated immediately like he'd always been doing it. Most require a minimum of two or three training sessions.
In the event that you can get him collected, you can use raw semen immediately in most cases, although it is more desirable to extend it. You cannot however run the risk of placing semen into the uterus of a mare that is not in heat, so you need to perform more diagnostic work before progressing any further.
Thank you for all your help. My vet has been out very other day. Her uterus is soft, but not as soft as she would like to see it. She has a .38 and she is clean. No CL. honestly I fogot what she said about her edema. Thank you very much for your advise. I have previously taught my stallion to ground collect against some bales of hay braced against a wall.
Anonymous Posted From: 18.104.22.168
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 11:02 pm:
To JOS: In your answer to Sammie above, you made the following statement that I would like to know the reason for--a very basic question from a newcomer to breeding horses--"You cannot however run the risk of placing semen into the uterus of a mare that is not in heat," What would happen?
Jos Posted From: 22.214.171.124
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:20 am:
The uterus, when under the influence of progesterone during diestrus (i.e. when the mare is not in "heat") has a depressed immunity to pathogens. Whenever the mare is bred, it is pretty much a 100% certainty that pathogens will be introduced into the uterus. During estrus ("heat") in the healthy broodmare, the uterine immune response is elevated, so the introduction of pathogens is not critical. However, as a result of the depressed immune response during diestrus, the mare is highly likely to end up with an infected uterus in the event she is bred during that time period.
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