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A.I. vs. Live Cover

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 1 » A.I. vs. Live Cover « Previous Next »

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Michelle (216.191.179.130)
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello again! I posted this question early and I was hoping to get some advice.

I have an open mare who does not conceive easily. Does live cover increase the chance of conception compared to A.I. (even when the semen for A.I. can be inseminated within 3 hours of collection)????

Any help would be appreciated! Thank you.

Michelle
 

Jos (142.177.113.34)
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. Not if the A.I. is performed correctly and in a timely manner, and the stallion has normal fertility, and the semen is this fresh.
 

Michelle (64.231.62.72)
Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 10:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jos -- much appreciated!
 

Kelly (63.172.47.237)
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Jos, however, I have noticed that many mares respond mentally to live cover and therefore, will concieve. I really believe that some things are "mother nature" and effect these mares in ways that are not all together scientific. I even tease for A.I. for this same reason. It seems to work for me.
 

Jos (142.177.112.161)
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2002 - 08:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Teasing causes the mare to release oxytocin, so it is indeed quite possible that you see a better result in some mares as a result of their being teased prior to breeding, not because they were bred live cover rather than AI!

Did you ever hear the story about the "old mare who wouldn't get pregnant anymore", so she's put out at pasture with the stallion to "keep him happy", and gets pregnant; or one of the breeders that says "you can't get this mare pregnant except by pasture breeding"? Well, all that's happening in probably 95% of those cases is that the stallion is teasing the heck out of the mare, who has a "delayed uterine clearance", or a uterine fluid problem, and who as a result of the almost continuous teasing is releasing goodly amounts of oxytocin and causing her uterus to involute and expell the fluid!

In actual fact the same could have been accomplished by using AI and about $4 worth of injectible oxytocin!!

Mares responding mentally....? Well, in a sense I suppose it is....! :)
 

Kelly (63.172.47.159)
Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I absolutly agree. I also find that teasing helps young, maiden mares as well. These are not the usual suspects for poor uterine clearance. It seems that their heat cycles are stronger and longer after being exposed to teasing. It is something that I would not eliminate from my program, as the results are worth the extra effort.
 

kristinb (204.33.208.200)
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could my mare have a problem with delayed uterine clearance? She is 18 Appendix mare. She had two live foals a few years ago. She was bred two weeks ago five times(every day), live cover, to a young stallion, very good teaser. She just started showing signs of being in heat, she has her tail raised, backing up to the fence where she flirts with one of our geldings, winking... could she have a problem with delayed uterine clearence? She does seem to have a lot of fluid around her vulva. Is that a sign of heat? Help!
 

Jos (142.177.103.191)
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Delayed uterine clearance" is - as it's name suggests - a condition that will cause uterine fluid to not be cleared. This uterine fluid is not uncommon during early estrus, and is always apparent as a result of breeding.

It is therefore unlikely that the signs that your mare is exhibiting are indicators of this condition. It is most likely that what you are seeing is normal. If you have concerns however, you should consult with your veterinarian.
 

Kelly (63.172.47.182)
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is at that age that many mares do experience this problem. If she is not pregnant, I would suggest breeding only on every other day and to follow up with oxytocin.
 

kristin buchanan (165.247.215.122)
Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you very much. I found out that she was not pregnant. So, I took her up to the breeder, she is definately in heat. My vet said she did have some extra fluid, and she did a culture, ( I don't have results back yet). She said that she had medium sized follicles and she should not have a significant problem with "delayed uterine clearance." She said she would like to follow-up breeding with a saline wash to clean out her system, should she also follow up with oxytocin to get the extra fluid out? I hope she gets preg this time! Thank you for your informative web site.
 

Jos (142.177.113.11)
Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Make sure a cytology slide is prepared in conjunction with the uterine culture. If a cytology smear is not prepared in conjunction with the culture of the swab sample, then the results of the culture as far as showing pathogenic status of the uterus are WORTHLESS!!!! It is essential that if a "positive culture" result is seen that there be neutrophils also seen on the cytology smear - without those neutrophils present, it is most likely that the culture result is indicative of a contaminated sample! So - no cytology, no accuracy!

A saline lavage is fine, but I would still definitely include oxytocin treatment - especially in view of the fact that the vet has already identified uterine fluid presence.
 

kristin buchanan (209.86.3.189)
Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again. The results came back, and it looks like she does have a low-grade infection. My mare is still up at breeders and I have notified them of the problem. My vet suggested a saline lavage 12 hours after the last cover. Can you explain to me how this works and if she has a fertilized ovum, if she will keep it? Also, does her infection present any other problems? Thanks in advance...
 

Jos (142.177.11.50)
Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I trust that there were neutrophils present in a cytology slide, and you are not possibly needlessly spending money? I hope so...

A saline lavage essentially "washes" the uterus post-breeding, and also causes a degree of irritation that results in prostaglandin release that makes the uterus contract and expel fluid.

If conception has occurred, it has taken place in the oviducts, where the pregnancy will remain until about 5 and one-half days after conception, at which time the pregnancy descends in to the uterus. This time frame allows a window of opportunity for safe uterine treatment during the first three and a half days post-ovulation, as the oviducts will not be affected.

The biggest danger with the pathogen in the uterus at the moment relates to failure of pregnancy establishment/maintenance. If there is a long term pathogenic presence, permanent damage to the endometrium may result.
 

kristin buchanan (209.86.4.123)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi again, I am not sure if I should continue this conversation in a different message thread, but I wanted to ask you a couple more questions.
1. Vet at the breeders performed a rectal palpation on my mare and discovered that her cervix was completely closed, the vet infused her uterus with antibiotics and is giving her doses of oxytocin to clear fluid. How does the uterine body clear itself when the cervix is closed?
2. She is also a candidate for caslick's, should i have the vet attempt this procedure if and only if she is "settled?" What day post-ovulation do you suggest?
3. Should I start her in Regu-Mate?
Well, she really does sound like a text book case for trying to get an older mare in foal. The reason we did not take a swab of her reproductive tract before was because she has not been breed to a stallion in atleast three years. So, I have learned a ton form this whole process and I look forward to new challenges!
 

Jos (142.177.80.204)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We're kinda stuck here now! :)

1: It doesn't. It may be however that the cervix isn't as tightly closed as is believed, in which case some clearance may be achieved. We prefer to use some estrogen to relax the cervix prior to dealing with a mare like this - and the work must also be done during estrus for several reasons.

2: If you are breeding AI, a Caslick's procedure can be put in prior to breeding (leaving enough room for passage of the inseminator's hand) which is preferable. If you are breeding live cover, you can contemplate partial Caslick's with a breeder's stitch (a thick stitch at the bottom to hopefully prevent tearing during breeding), or have the mare sutured immediately following ovulation detection.

3: Regumate is probably over-used in the place of good diagnostics. If there is uterine fluid present, the use of a progestagen will tend to increase rather than decrease the problem as it discourages fluid clearance. I would therefore perform intensive diagnostics, and couple that with heavy oxytocin use without success prior to reaching for the Regumate.

Incidentally, if you were told by the vet that you did not "need to take a swab of her reproductive tract before was because she has not been breed to a stallion in at least three years" that was very poor and inaccurate advise, and you may wish to consult with a second veterinarian who perhaps has more experience in the reproductive field.

Good luck!
 

Kelly (63.172.47.231)
Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos hit on a subject that most novice breeders do not realize...not every vet is experienced with breeding. I have trouble with clients who have been given bad advice from a general large animal vet.

Even maiden mares can have the most aggressive of infections due to many differing circumstances. I do realize that it can be an uncomfortable situation when dealing with a vet that you have established a long working relationship with. Still, it is your money and your time. Using a vet that is more experienced with breeding during breeding season is reasonable.



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