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3 year old Oldenburg/TB mare having problems (long)

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 1 » 3 year old Oldenburg/TB mare having problems (long) « Previous Next »

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Donna Belcher (65.33.144.36)
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a three year old maiden Oldenburg mare. She cycles normally and shows very strong heat signs.

First cycle attempt: Ultrasounded with a 39mm follicle. Given HCG. Bred next day with fresh cooled semen. Cervix a little less relaxed than expected. Utrasounded at 15 and 18 days: no pregnancy.

Short cycled her with Estrumate (BTW: she took 12 days to ovulate from date shot given). Took her to a repro clinic: Monday she had a 26mm follicle. Tuesday 36mm: ovuplant implanted. Wednesday she had a 39mm follicle and was bred with fresh cooled. Thursday she had a well fomed CL! She was infused with ampicillin/gentocin and given oxytocin X3. The ovuplant was removed. A caslicks was perfomed with a Dormosedan tranq. No fluid in uterus, everything including cervix looks normal during entire stay.

Given Rompun 1cc/Domosedan 1/4cc and confirmed in foal at 19 days via ultrasound (normal size and in right horn also 50mm follicle on left). Fluid was noted in the body of the uterus which was slighty lax. She was started on 12cc/day of Regumate for 8 days and then rechecked. Ultrasounded (same tranq): NO pregnacy, fluid still in the uterus which had decreased in tone, 25mm follicles on the left ovary. Taken off of regumate. 3 days later a 45 mm follicle on right ovary nothing on left. Cervix is less than 2 fingers. Flushed with 3L saline (Friday). Saturday flushed with 3L saline. Disharge is evident now. Culture (done prior to first lavage) shows copious amounts of yeast at almost 48 hours growth (neutrophils present along with some macrophages). Sunday 45mm still on right and 26mm on left, flushed again with 3L saline. Cervix more relaxed at about two fingers or so.

Any suggestions or comments? I am looking for opinions here. The more the merrier! S-T-S

I bought this mare to be my foundation broodmare. LOL!

Thank you,
Donna
 

Noble Knight (206.157.249.103)
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 04:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Donna, it sounds like a test tube foal. I am not very familiar with the breed of your horse but normal AI practices should suffice. It's too bad she didn't take on the first try. I try to keep things as natural as possible and would advise not to induce a mare to cycle unless she is having trouble.

You didn't mention if your vet used 1 or 2 inseminations. I would use 2 implanted 18 - 24 hours apart. AI is simulating a stallions adoration, it should be a simple procedure of placing it at the proper place at the proper time and letting Nature take it's course. If your mare is healthy, the semen is as fresh as possible, extended and containing antibiotics, nothing more is needed. If I followed the procedure that was done on your mare with the many mares I live cover, I would be forever in debt.
 

Donna (65.33.144.36)
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I would love to just AI and be done with it! My decision to take her to the breeding specialist was because it is late in the season and I wanted her to be checked often and everything done "right". Honestly I did not know that they would give her every drug in the book...apparently they do this on EVERY mare (and this is all they do).

Once she lost the pregnancy I took her to a different vet and had her cultured and found the yeast infection. She was flushed four times before and once after she was bred. The vet flushed 4 hours after insemination. I am really hoping this is enough time to allow the sperm to get from the uterus and into the fallopian tubes to keep the sperm from being washed away.

You are right about the money. I could have bought a nice baby with top bloodlines for what I have spent in vet fees and I still am waiting to see IF she is even in foal!!

I will find out around the 17th whether or not she is in foal. Since my stallion ends his breeding season on the 15th IF she did not take I will have to wait till next year...I will be very sad indeed! Sad and broke! LOL!!
 

Kelly (63.172.47.226)
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 02:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Donna- I live cover and ship semen. Some mares are very easy to impregnate and some have problems. Even if your mare seems to be healthy, and the sperm is in good shape, things can happen.

You did the right thing by taking her at this time of year to the repro. specialists. If this were the start of breeding season, I would say that you may have over compensated. As it stands, I think that their procedures were sound, and in your best interests. They tried to cover all the bases for you.

I will have to take exception to the notion that AI is a simple procedure, simulating nature and nothing more is needed. Unfortunately for you, your mare is a case in point.

It can get expensive, but then again, it is a choice we make. A good repro. vet is well worth the money. At least they did not try to cut any corners or discourage you by giving up. They did what you hired them to do. Some mares would never concieve without those very procedures.

I understand how frustrating this can all be. Look on the bright side, if she is not in foal, next year is only 5 months away!
 

Noble Knight (206.157.249.116)
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 05:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Donna, Kelly does make a good point concerning the time of year and the decision to go to a repro specialist. I feel anytime of the breeding season is O.K. I do disagree however that all mares should be considered so similar that they be "treated" alike or procedures be done just to "cover the bases" unless conditions absolutely require such. AI Can Be a very complicated and fruitless endeavor but it is a simple procedure that requires nothing more unless problematic conditions occur. As Kelly said, "Some mares will not conceive without these procedures" but in my experience they are few and some procedures could be detrimental if performed when not needed.

I reluctantly shipped to a 24 year old arab but did so because she was thoroughly vet checked, healthy, and of superb bloodlines. 1.5 breeding seasons and nothing but problems and procedures such as with your mare by high qualified vets. Considering her age and slight symptoms it seemed proper to do. This lady paid us a healthy stud fee and really wanted this foal. We purchased some mares in her area and I decided to AI this old girl while trailering the mares home. We timed it well and she ovulated the 2nd day we were there. Post insemination I had her non-invasively checked by a local vet. Got a call - She should have regumate, oxytocin, etc., she's got a little fluid, maybe some Preventative Antibiotics would be good too. I discussed this with the owner and we declined the treatment. I checked her on the second trip for the mares and all was well at 18 days. Being an older mare, 26 now, her system and hormones were slow but she did deal with things on her own. I sent the lady 1 quart of colostrum since I have seen older mares 12 or so hours late in making milk and this mare did just that. She foaled a beautiful dark bay stallion that you may have seen in the arab horse books.

I do feel that your repro vet did their very best for your mare and they were worth the effort if you find her in foal, or not, on the 17th. If she is not in foal don't despair. I feel it is best to first, if possible, live cover a mare at 4 years old then AI the following year on the second natural cycle. It seems to me to be much more successful.
 

Donna Belcher (65.33.144.36)
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I just got the results of the last insemination (4 saline lavages before, 1 more lavage 4 hours after AI).

NO PREGNANCY!!

There was however no fluid in the uterus...so maybe the yeast have been "licked"!

When and if she comes back into heat I will have a culture and a cytology test run...just to be sure...

Thank you everyone for your help and expertise. I will try again next year. It would be disastrous if my "foundation" broodmare is unable to be bred!!!

Donna
 

Brian Denham (164.107.88.142)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering if anyone knows what caslicks is?
 

Horse Pro (165.247.174.206)
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 08:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brian I posted this on another part of this site a while back but to save time searching I have reposted for you.

The caslicks procedure involves a partial surgical closure of the labial majora of the vulva. The purpose for this procedure is to prevent the mare from aspirating debris when the vulva is relaxed. Since the reproductive tract of a female is negative pressure. If the labial majora is allowed to open into the vaginal vault, air will rush in as will any debris including fecal material and air born dust-containing bacteria along with it. This procedure prevents that from happening.

This is a very simple procedure that involves the surgical debridement and closure of the vaginal margins typically leaving only enough of an opening to allow the mare to urinate without obstruction. This will often be to the extent that it will require opening again in order for the mare to be bred and certainly would require opening before the mare foals.

Unfortunately this procedure by it´s very nature has one negative side effect. In that when it is done repeatedly, each time a small amount of the labial margins are cut off to form a blood supply for the closure to heal. Subsequently the vulva becomes smaller and misshapen. I have recently found a better way to perform this procedure and avoid this eventual problem. It involves the following. Instead of trimming of the labial margins or external tissue; if the practitioner will trim just inside the labial margin where it becomes mucus membrane, then suture that part together. It makes a much cleaner closure with no external tissue loss. It also makes subsequent opening of this closure much easier, since the labial margins form a guideline as it were, for the person doing the opening.

I hope this answers your questions.



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